History / Should Poland be given ANY credit for ALLOWING Jews into Poland for 1000 years? [195]

We Jews are the "parents", Christians, our "children", all true enough.

There have been regrettably throughout much of modern history a number of self-loathing Jews who've adopted lamentable anti-Jewish posturings, e.g. Otto Weininger, an Austrian Jew who wrote a number of harsh anti-Semitic diatribes which sadly fueled the flames of the gentile anti-semites in early 20th century Austria. Such though must never be confused with some sort of perverse license among Christians ("goyim"s such a disrespectful word!) to believe the bigoted or racists tendencies picked up along the way:-)

History / Should Poland be given ANY credit for ALLOWING Jews into Poland for 1000 years? [195]

We already know to a great extent what gentiles think, that is, misconceive about Jews. If you were marginalized, tossed into ghettoes, later into extermination camps, encarcerated and simultaneously starved to death, what would you think of gentiles?? While not all Jews are examples of the "Chosen People", plenty of Christians, Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists ain't exactly holier than thou either, just to set the record straight!!

History / Should Poland be given ANY credit for ALLOWING Jews into Poland for 1000 years? [195]

????? AM I saying that???!!!

Kindly re-re-re-read my original message:-) Or should I translate it into Polish for you?:-)

History / Should Poland be given ANY credit for ALLOWING Jews into Poland for 1000 years? [195]

Polonius, I've yet to encounter any passage in either the Talmud or the Midrash alluding to Jews referring to gentiles as merely fit to be beast of burden to serve the Jews! This sounds more like preposterous, right-wing type rhetoric we often read in the States, i.e. from various Christian groups in the Midwest who publish popular Bibles fo young people. In one such passage, I read the questionable assertion that Jews don't like dogs and once referred to those whom they dislike as dogs.

Unfounded poppycock, probably written by someone not even able to read either Hebrew or Aramaic:-)

Life / One of more conspicuous Polish traits - inconsequence? [37]

Only cursorily familiar with the Battle of Gruenwald from graduate history, had the Poles NOT acted as they had, their judgment (ocenia) might have been betterLOL

History / Foreigners who fought for Poland [14]

I did, paw! Only joking:-)

Life / One of more conspicuous Polish traits - inconsequence? [37]

This proves my point, Pawian; the Poles aren't guilty of inconsequentiality, but of poor judgement (which is something completely different).
:-)

History / Should Poland be given ANY credit for ALLOWING Jews into Poland for 1000 years? [195]

Kinda missed my point, MediaWatch!

I was being sarky with my last comment (surprised you didn't pick up on that oneLOL).

The issue is/was that Nixon showed the same intrinsic disrespect for Kissinger which all dyed-in-the-wool anti-Semites show. To Nixon, Kissinger was DIFFERENT from himself, because the former was a Jew, good enough to have his brains picked, yet not good enough to break bread with Pat for breakfast at the family table:-)

If people who are supposed to be Christian acted as they have over the last thousand years, what does that say about Christianity as understood by its followers??

Furthermore, please don't misunderstand my remarks as in some wise or manner "anti-Christian"! I'm merely anti-hypocrisy, that's all, be it Christian, Jewish or what have you:-)

My argument was, using Nixon as but one example, that all throughout history Jews have been considered smart enough to be of use to gentiles, yet somehow NEVER quite good enough to become part of their inner sanctum, i.e. close circle of friends, staple guest at family gatherings, christenings, etc... That's what stinks!

Life / One of more conspicuous Polish traits - inconsequence? [37]

I agree:-)

Only how is "inconsequence" a word describing a Polish trait? Once again, a person's work may well be "inconsequential" or "of no consequence", but surely, the quality of a person or their word is "inconsistent", is it not? In German too, "konsequent" means "inconsistent" and sounds like an English word, though of course, is one of those false friends along with "aktuell" (up to date, NOT "actually") etc...

History / Should Poland be given ANY credit for ALLOWING Jews into Poland for 1000 years? [195]

Our own, the late President Richard M. Nixon, thought enough of Henry Kissinger's Harvard professorship and admittedly brilliant mind to make him Secretary of States......but NOT enough to ever even think to invite Kissinger to a garden party on the Front Lawn or, even to invite him to Trish's wedding because he was Jewish!

You love us when it's convenient financially, yet when we're no longer deemed necessary, you toss us to the wolves, throw us into camps and essentially tell us to eat manure.

And you guys call yourselves "Christians"????!!

News / Polish police chief removes crosses [250]

Although police actions are certainly extreme, here in the US, the police in one of the Midwestern states removed a man by force for proselytizing Jehovah's Witness material in a school. While the state is overwhelmingly Protestant, it was felt (correctly too, I might add!) that using school children as guinea pigs for someone's own religious agenda violated the Constitution as well as the Freedom of Information Act.

News / Polish police chief removes crosses [250]

The crucial thing is that a cross in a public or common space reflects the majority faith, however need NOT reflect the particular faith of a visitor, tourist or guest who happens either not to share that faith (as an atheist or agnostic) or is Jewish, Muslim or Buddhist. I find this entire discussion somewhat repetitive, not to mention disingenuous. France too prohibits crosses, mezzuzot, burkhas or any number of showings of religious feeling. France, like Poland and Spain, is a "Catholic" country, yet realizes that someones beliefs are their own, so long as they respect the beliefs of others.

Language / Why when spelling Polish names abroad, Polish letters are ignored? [68]

Yet nonethless "Gdansk" rather than "GdaŃsk", a waste of money requiring new typefaces to be set for a language not as numerous as, for example, Hindi, Chinese, Russian, Arabic or Urdu:-)

News / Polish police chief removes crosses [250]

When last in Spain during the mid-90's, the school at which I taught had the compulsory crucifix in EACH AND EVERY classroom, including the restrooms! I had no problem at all with it. The staff which hired me knew I wasn't Christian and I simply accepted their rules.

Life / Temperament of Poles - my observations [23]

The first foreign country I ever "lived" in was Denmark while in my mid-twenties. I later visited Szczecin, Poland during a brief trip to Germany. While indeed stereotyping, either positive or negative, is to a certain degree inevitable, I too would like to share some cultural differences between the Poles and the Danes, for example.

DANES POLES
Often pflegmatic to a fault Sarcastic, suspicious and wary of strangers
Easy going to the point of disrespectful Intensely curious and quick to challenge
Seemingly present and future- oriented, little concerned with their past Sometiimes moved to tears by quick, passionate outbursts
Bland of temper, finding any hint of national passion amusing! Opinionated and reluctant to renege on that opinion

History / Should Poland be given ANY credit for ALLOWING Jews into Poland for 1000 years? [195]

The issue really is not whether Poland ought to be given "credit" for allowing Jews in in the first place, but WHY were Jews allowed into most European countries in the first place?! They were convenient pawns of the various petty princes, rules, kings, whatnot, who held sway over their own territory/territories and saw the Jews as a useful bargaining chip, that's all! Sadly as we all well know, the predominant Catholic monarchies at the time, i.e. from the Middle Ages up through the Renaissance, forced the Jews into conversion, most egregious being the Spanish Inquisition, whereby Jews were burned for their beliefs, forced to remain in ghettos, and marginalized within society.

With this pariah status, Jews had virtually zero mobility within Europe, made to perform the thankless tasks of money lending or tax collection among the (Catholic) peasantry, as such was deemed "un-Christian". Jews were therefore and forever after branded as financially predisposed genii, yet socially parasitic and inept.

This stereotype is alive and well! How often do we hear, " Get yourself a real Jewish doctor, lawyer, accountant etc..'cuz they're super smart!" Invite that person to a family gathering???! FUGGETABOUTIT!:-)

This social ostracism essentially has remained unchanged.

Life / One of more conspicuous Polish traits - inconsequence? [37]

Lots of times, a word may exist in any language, yet be so little used that it's very usage sounds flat wrong, i.e. unnatural:-)

Life / One of more conspicuous Polish traits - inconsequence? [37]

By "inconsequent" (niekonsekventny), do you possibly mean "inconsistent"?? "Inconsequent" isn't English:-) "Inconsequential" does indeed exist, and means "unimportant" (nieważny)

lol

History / If Poles were antisemitic, would they ...? [240]

Never realized there are two, Pawian!

I stand enlightened (..and corrected)
:-)

History / If Poles were antisemitic, would they ...? [240]

The only one with which I'm familiar lies in the center of the country:-)

History / If Poles were antisemitic, would they ...? [240]

Which one do you mean. Pawian? Second of all, "googling", like "wikiing" is about as unreliable as one can get! Old German atlases were thorough to the core, influenced by nationalistic bias as the atlases of any other country!!

History / If Poles were antisemitic, would they ...? [240]

My "research" consists/consisted of pouring over old Baedeker maps as well as Westermann Atlases from the Nazi period which bear out one hundred percent what I posted: Jasna Góra - Hellberg (jasn- = hell, góra = Berg), £ódź - Litzmannstadt/Lodsch etc....

You're tellin' ME ol' man Baedeker's wrong???

History / If Poles were antisemitic, would they ...? [240]

Thank you, oh, Gracious Benefactor! Now I can sleep a little easier:-)

History / If Poles were antisemitic, would they ...? [240]

Simple! Most of the Polish Jews were originally German or Yiddish speaking immigrants to Poland from neighboring territories under German domination, that's all ^^

Not the best example??! Oh, is that so, Pawian? Could you think of a better one then?

History / If Poles were antisemitic, would they ...? [240]

A slightly off-topic aside to your post, Other, but all too many non-Europeans think that the Prussians were either Slavs or even Teutons, when in point of fact they were Balts:-)

Indeed, "Teutsche Lande" extended far, far East, well into the present-day Eurasian part of contemporary Russia. Old signs bear ample testament to same.

History / If Poles were antisemitic, would they ...? [240]

Half of all Polish place names, especially towns and cities, have German equivalents, e.g. Bytom - Beuthen, Jasna Góra - Hellberg etc...

History / If Poles were antisemitic, would they ...? [240]

"To", a typo!

History / If Poles were antisemitic, would they ...? [240]

Boy oh Boy, Paw! Oughta pack it in, buddy, check out! You missed my point by a country mile.

NOOOOOO, I'm using Christmas as a friggin' analogy of what people would think were I too criticize the worldwide celebration of Christmas, even though I'm Jewish!

Twój angielski jest nieźle, ale brak Ci słów:-)

History / If Poles were antisemitic, would they ...? [240]

Pawiańku,

niestety absolutnie NIE rozumiałes żart mojego zdania! US humor frequently makes clever use of deadly sarcasm aimed at foolish statements, notions or assertions by pretending to tacitly AGREE with them by seeming to take the other's viewpoint while actually being against their argument, as I was vis-a-vis the idea that Jews are somehow getting too much attention:-)

lol

At least you freely admit the fact that you're not an English native speaker and therefore that much of the gist of what I said was beyond you.

My respect for you has gone up a few notches ^^

History / If Poles were antisemitic, would they ...? [240]

Well, I think gentiles get "too much" undeserved attention round about Christmas when I get my pockets picked by every Tom, Dick or Harry with a case of the holiday gimmies! Wouldn't you then logically turn right around and call me a Scrooge??

I think so:-)