Whoever is a Pole, of Polish blood and Polish origin... MUST listen this song of Racowie

Sounds like something out of Turkey or the middle east, seems to me that your compass should be facing south.

these words sound Turkish to you? Trust me, you are wrong or simple provoke. There is Polish translation and anybody can see for itself

as for music,... modern day authors using all kind of background for the songs. that, i can`t control, nor i wish to control. Still, i personally, didn`t get impression that music remind on middle east. Sound more like a war drums to me, what is in accordance with text.

On the end, i would remind you on medieval clothes of Polish nobility (szlachta) in time of `Sarmatism`. Shall we conclude that Polish nobility lost compass and preferred Turkish/Indian/Arabic clothes instead of European? No, we won`t conclude that. We who know elementary things from history and elementary facts of Slavic world,... we would say that clothes during Sarmatism in Poland were phase in Polish history where nobility wanted to underline its connection with ancient Sarmatians (Proto Slavs). Now, Sarmatian realm existed on intercontinental level (with all kind of clothes popular in local conditions), from west, east, north of Europe to the Anatolia, near east, Eurasia and Asia. So simple, for the Polish nobility (that was aware of its great Sarmatian heritage), in time when old Sarmatian realm was threatened by different invaders, used of clothes that reminded on some other part (that time and modern day Poland is just one little peace of what was Sarmatia) of Sarmatian realm was act to underline how was Sarmatia actually great. It was if you want act of solidarity (by Polish nobility) with Sarmats that were invaded or occupy by hostile invaders. On the end, Polish nobility even wanted to announce that have ancestral right to expand its rule on wast territory of what was once free Sarmatia.



Stanisław Antoni Szczuka in kontusz, a Sarmatian attire

as for Turks. They were/are invaders on Sarmatian ground (not only Sarmatian). Why would you insist what is Turkish or what isn`t Turkish music. Turks arrived as wild Ottoman horde. When they arrived they `civilized` itself by taking all what they founded in conquered lands. That goes for clothes or music, too.

Free yourself of your complexes, hague1cmaeron.

Sarmatia is eternal.

PATRIOTISM is a disease

TRIBALISM is more interesting

if one refuse patriotism, his country or if one refuse tribalism, his people... what he can expect. He can expect to belong to some magnate who have his own corporation. So, refuse of patriotism, nationalism or tribalism leads to corporationism.

i refuse CORPORATIONISM. i`m not slave or robot

whats the difference between thinking ones country or ones tribe is the greatest ? theyre both disrespectful to other nations and other tribes.


No, the material world we live in today leads to (what you refer as coporartionism) what i like to call the rat race.

You can be patriotic, tribal, and quite corporate. Corporations believe they are doing great things for the largest amount of people. They make the spaghetti sauce and put it in the little jars so that you or I may go to the store and buy instead of growing our own tomatoes and cooking them over a hot stove for hours in a pot, stirring, only to find they aren't seasoned enough or taste funny, so we throw them out! That is how the corporations justify their existence. They help you. They help me. They organize their factories and manufacturers in such a way, it allows us to receive the products we need in this modern age of ease and convenience. This is why the corporation exists. For you and for me.

Without the corporation, there is no automobile. Without automobiles, there is no travel, no going forward.

I would say the opposite...


And they did ;)

Eastern Ukriane were the ancient sarmatian lands, and who owned them in the 16-17'th century? The Poles!

Youve got your values all mixed up, corporations dont exist for us, they exist for themselves to make more money for the people at the top.


The car was invented by Ferdinand Verbiest, not a corporation. The Wrights brothers invented the first flying machine, again not a corporation.

Patriotism is healthy; fanaticism is a disease.

for me, its problem only if somebody wish to invade somebody else property. What does it matter if somebody thinks of itself that is best, better then others. To tell you frankly, every morning i stand in front of mirror and telling to myself that i`m the best. Best when approaching to girl, best when approaching to customers, best on Polishforums. Then, sometimes i found that i`m not the best. and, i learning then, learning more again and again for i want to be best, always best. and all what is best in me i like to share with my people, even to help to the other people when they are in their need


let it go without me


yes, if corporation serve to tradition, heritage and culture of my people. It is best when Corporation, in its work and mission, using language of my people (Polish, Serbian, Ukrainian, Slovenian, Russian, etc). Bit, its not always the case. Anyway, that is my wish. Corporation based on Slavic heritage, cultural values, with some Slavic language as official. That. that is desirable


you can but, only you know what is `opposite` in this case. Will you share it with rest of us?


exactly. Just i don`t understand why you need that `;)`


eastern Ukraine, eastern Ukraine, bla bla. Not only eastern Ukraine. Complete Slavic (Proto Slavic) world was Sarmatia. Just Russian lands were Scythian realm but even then, Scythians were just another branch of Sarmatians.

Serbian (Racowie) lands on Balkan were included in the list of property that belonged to Polish Kings. Did you know this? It happened after Ottoman Turkish assault on Balkan when Serbian Empire finaly collapsed, after decades of resistance (almost 100 years). Thanks to Jadwiga and Zawisha the Black voice of disaster came to the Polish throne and Władysława III of Poland declared that Rascie (land of Racowie, Serbia) does not belong to Ottomans but to the Sarmatia and no matter being under temporary Turkish occupation or being subjugated to Hungary. We Serbians won`t forget this. and we gave our best to Poland. and never betrayed Poland. Who else on this Earth can say that for itself?! Who didn`t betray Poland???

Zasługi polskiego króla Władysława III Warneńczyka (1424-1444) dla Bałkanów



that was nicely said

No, it is not.

As Henryk Elzenberg once said:

"A nation consists of millions of average individuals, with a certain percentage of fools, scoundrels
and criminals; it is, in its mass, ruthless, capable of great evil and susceptible to psychoses.
Loving the entire nation is nonsense; you can - without being blinded by it - love only some of its,
usually modest, virtues, and some of its best representatives. However, a nation is strictly connected
and united with Fatherland, and with Fatherland it's a completely different matter. Fatherland
is an ideal concept, something that was drawn from non-existence with the efforts and virtues
of the best of the best in a given nation, something that floats above people - a great symbol,
great fire, in which all the dreams, ambitions, longings and aspirations of the nation concentrate.
Alienate a man from his nation is quite easy; but nobody can seriously want to deprive a person of
his Fatherland."

Great words by a great philosopher, and how true. The word patriotism, comes from the word
Patria (Fatherland) and it is not a disease, Wroclaw Boy. It is a great virtue, not to be confused
with primitive nationalism.

Being a patriot doesn't mean that you think your country is the best in the world; it only means
that you love it the most, despite all its flaws and imperfections.

I like patriots. No matter if they are patriots of nations traditionally hostile towards Poland;
if they are patriots and really love their countries, then I can always find a common tongue
with them. It is nationalists who cause all the trouble.

[quote=Crow]Shall we conclude that Polish nobility lost compass and preferred Turkish/Indian/Arabic clothes instead of Europe/quote]

I did not mean to offend you Crowie, it's just that the music sounds very Arabic, that's all. The Poles did have a fascination with Turkish attire and arts and crafts. They appreciated the finery of the silks and embroidery, so some dressed the "Samartian" way on and sometimes the "European" way-with the wig and waistcoat etc. They also appreciated or created a voge for Turkish music-Poland was the first country to adopt a Turkish musical troupe.

A lot of other composers got their inspiration from Turkish sounds, this is one of my particular favorites:

Beethoven-Turkish March from the ruins of Athens
youtu.be/1IXLfPcgX1U

Mozart-Turkish March ...
Of course unlike the Serbian stuff, this sounds distinctly European.

Depends on the individuals perspective, from what i know of you i would say it isnt, from what i know of Crow i would say it is.

The right to believe your country is superior based on the lottery that is ones place of birth. In my experience thats how most patriots actually feel, absolute ignorance.


I'm finding it quite difficult to think of the benefits Patriotism brings to society? perhaps you could help me out.

Sounds more like nationalists to me, not patriots.

Hate to quote myself, but the bit below...


... explains patriotism quite well; but, of course, I see what you're trying to say, we're just
discussing semantics here.

alright, you can continue your fascination with Turks. That`s you. i don`t see Turks in this example

In your opinion..

Would you die for your country?

The definition you made is balanced, but Crow himself is a good example where it can lead someone in very negative way. Although he thinks otherwise nationalists from different nations are thaught same lies and fairy tales. He is just the Serbian representative of this global lie.

I would die for my family, my wife and my little daughter; for my piece of land and the wooden
figure of Saint Virgin Mary that I pass on my way to work; for all the places and people that
I love.

It so happens that all the abovementioned things are in my country, so yes - I would die for it,
if its existence and freedom demanded such sacrifice.

Trust me the music is almost identical, listen to this example and compare what you played, if you play them at the same time you will see how well they complement each other :

...
You know what I think, you might have found your long lost tribe(:

Turquerie was the Orientalist fashion in Western Europe from the 16th to 18th centuries for imitating aspects of Turkish art and culture. Many different Western European countries were fascinated by the exotic and relatively unknown culture of Turkey, which was part of the Ottoman Empire, and at the beginning of the period the only power to pose a serious military threat to Europe. The West had a growing interest in Turkish-made products and art, including music, visual arts, architecture, and sculptures.

The above mentioned things could be in any country, would you die equally for those countries being a patriot and all. Of course not, thats not patriotism at all.

Of course they could, but they are not - they are in Poland. I could have been born in another country,
but I wasn't. I was born here and all the things I love are here, in Poland. What's wrong with that?


:)

Of course it is. I love my country, and the fact that I could have been born in another one is completely
irrelevant. Or are you saying that I don't really love my wife, because I could have married some other
woman? Or are you saying that I don't love my daughter, because I could have had some other child?
That I don't really cherish my language, culture and traditions, because they could have been different,
if I had been born in another country?


I told you what I would die for, now you tell me - is there anything in this world that you would die for,
Wroclaw Boy, or do you value your - Wroclaw Boy's life, above all the other things?

Patriotism is a relationship with ones country not their loved ones.


Nope, im saying the reasons you listed for dying for your country dont really fall under patriotism IMO.


I'm not going to get spicy with you lets just say i certainly wouldnt die for my country, ive already voiced my opinion on patriotism in general.

If you take people out of the equation, then what kind of a relationship with a country can you have?
The language, culture, traditions, places you love etc. etc. - it's all about people who speak the language,
cherish the culture and traditions, and live in those places.

It's all about their freedom and dignity. People used to be murdered, just because they were Poles
and refused to give up their Polishness. If it was to happen again, if the freedom of my country,
and the dignity and lives of my loved ones were threatened, then it would be my duty to fight and,
if there was such necessity, die in their defence.



It wasn't my intention. I was just wondering if it's just semantics we're arguing about, or is it something
more fundamental, in our approach to life and hierarchy of values, that separates us.

Never mind, I was just curious.

Exactly, its a complete myth - of course you cant have a relationship with a country.

Which brings us back to perspectives, you can be proud of your countries heritage, history, culture and traditions, but that doesnt equate to patriotism by my understanding.

I would say that The Szlachta used Oriental cloths to show their Samatian heritage. Not to underline it.


Serfs my friend. Serfs...


Nigeria?

you definitely beat me. Listen, i`ll take the words of song and you take the music. ok?


Polish Szlachta could use whatever clothes they wanted because Orient, Central and Western Europe, Eastern Europe and Eurasia, great deal of Asia,... all belonged to Sarmatian realm. Polish Szlachta had many options what clothes to choose, from which region of vast Sarmatian world. So, some Szlachtic, in that particular moment picked that clothes which remind of Orient and telling that Orient also, if just Szlachta just want to fart in that direction, belong to Poland. Its ok for me. i understand that way to send message to the opponents. See? See? Polish Szlachta same way could choosed to go all around naked, as it was case in Gaul or, they could choosed to walk in skirts as it is case in Scotland or, to take trousers,... man, they were powerful, they could choosed whatever they wanted and what in the same time belonged to ancient Sarmatian realm.


yes. Sarmats gave agriculture to the Europe and so they gave meaning to the word `serf`. Its ok


give them time. When you see how they coming to EU, put cross on yourself. EU would help to their immigrants to betray Poland. If you understand me

And so they did.


Haha maybe!

Seems you know absolutely nothing about South Slavic folk and traditional music. Of course it sounds "oriental" - does that surprise you in any way?

BTW, the music in this particular recording is rather so-so, but I almost cried when I listened to the words. Those South Slavs always knew how to tug at my heart-strings...

its not oriental. Poles wouldn`t like it, if its oriental

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