Warsaw Uprising - The Forgotten Soldiers

How did other countries manage that?

Did all other countries manage that?

Wait a minute... You wrote it wasn't really about Danzig.


Poland existed since 1918 till 1939 and in those 20 years of independence there was no war with Third Reich and Poland and Third Reich were not enemies.


And how would they know that? Poland was at some time at war with bolshevik Russia and didn't lose independence. How could they know that consequences would be so dreadful?


OK, but did you read those books you mentioned?


But they didn't fight against the Red Army as far as it was possible. So I guess they picked a side to some point.


I don't know much, that's true. But you don't have to discuss anything with me, I'm not forcing you ;)


The Nazis were pretty black to me...

Oh they were...but they didn't jump out of nothing one bright summer day.
Hitler came to power on the back on some serious and justified grievances the german people had.
That he in the end gave a flying **** about them was another late and hard learned lesson.

As I said, Hitler would had given up all claims for Danzig when Poland would had agreed to other (for him more important) points.

That is also why I say he made up his enemies and allies as he did go along...a neutral or allied Poland would had gotten a super duper treatment instead of the sub-human speeches.

He had no problems to use muslims or asians if they could be of any help...even the Hiwis (russian voluntary helpers of the Wehrmacht) were seen as cool.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiwi_(volunteer)

Not to mention the also slavic russian resistance who fighted with the Wehrmacht against the Red Army.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Liberation_Army

Slav or no Slav was really not THAT much a problem in the end!


No it wasn't...but Danzig made a really fine excuse.
What do you think about the Danzig case? Imagine it would be the other way around?


Nope...Hitler tried till shortly before the invasion to get Poland on his good side...


They didn't think that far...believing London and Paris would send immediately their armies...


Then stop asking me things! ;)

Poland map
history of poland

The person who is losing the argument always attempts to justify his/her point by projecting some sort of 'equivalency' - that situations, plights, complications, conjectures, etc. are either all 'relative' or the same. They are not!


When one starts negotiations with automatic concessions, (then) they are not really negotiations.


It must have been tiring goose-stepping like that.

When the other tries to paint themself as some lily white, innocent, goody-two-shoes it just needs some reminder...


Read the links....Hitler was astounishing flexible...he would had gone quite far if there
had been negotiations in the first place.


I've read it was hell on the heels...

This 3 year old was the responsibility of the German adults - whom asked for it. Simple.


...like a scratched record...you getting booooring now.

Gdansk was created by a Slavic Monk. The first Polish King made Gdansk Polish before the
Hanseatic League took over, then the Prussians, then finally the Germans.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanseatic_League

The Hanseatic Leage WAS german, so had been the Prussians! *rolls eyes*

It seems you don't have enough lessons from the record yet!

vimeo.com/8350695, video of David Jakubowski, Polish Army captain in Warsaw and Holocaust survivor. This man is a great source of info.

I been to the uprising museum in Warsaw very touching.

There was a 10 year non-aggression pact of 1934, with Germany recognizing its Eastern borders.

German policy changed drastically in late 1938, after the annexation of Sudetenland sealed the fate of Czechoslovakia and Poland became Hitler's next target. This a Wiki interpretation, so you might not agree. However, 1934 + 10 seems a bit later later than 1938, innit? Hitler broke the pact with provocative demands.

BB, Poland is not responsible for the WW2. Western Poland of 1920 was nothing more that Poland had before the partitions, and even slightly less. Poznan was never a German city. It's not like everything becomes German forever, wherever a German foot trod once. Stop being ridiculous, please.

I understand you want to grow some balls after three generations of kowtow. But please.

Pęcice - last skirmishes in the Warsaw Uprising

My daughter walked a long way through the rain yesterday to attend a commemoration of the fighters who fell at Pęcice, to the west of Warsaw.

Several schools in the gmina attend every year. The usual sort of affair, plus steaming tea and grochówka.

Strangely, I sold my house in England to one of the fighters (who then ended up in Auschwitz as a prisoner of war).

Hi there!
I am his granddaughter, so I guess that makes us family. Now I am just very, very, very curious how exactly we are connected... I cannot write PMs, though. Could you contact me by sending one?

YYAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWNNNNNNN!!!! Sorry just read your reply.

I did not say they were not Germans - merely three stages in "German people's" history

The Hanseatic Leage first took Polish lands around 1400 ish - Germany did not exist then.
Then Prussia Took some more Polish lands around 1600 ish - Germany did not exist then.

Then GERMANY was born around 1870 ish - and the GERMANS took more Polish Lands.

Do I have to spell EVERYTHING out?

(PS - Lubeck was originally a Slavic settlement)


Harry - how do you know this? Anything but first hand knowledge does not justify your claims. So - justify your claims - or shut the fack up. Theres a good boy.


- the warsaw ghetto WAS flattened after the Jewish uprising. The second uprising was the main one which took part in the rest of warsaw which was STILL STANDING.

Problem is,...... they don,t teach such facts in school history lessons. As BB says, one must research these facts, and what better way is there than the internet.

Actually another way is to obtain knowledge at first hand, for example talking to those who lived in those times. Personally I have blood connections on all sides of the borders ( what a mixture ), that actually experienced both wars.

So take it from me, it,s hard to accept the truth when you have been brought up in a brainwashed society, but what BB is saying, is not without substance. I concur with the above quotes and I,m not German.

Alas, when you live in a country where people scream UNPATRIOTISM at the slightest criticism of Poland, it's very hard to actually teach facts in school as opposed to what the collective consciousness demands.

The fact that the Polish school programme seems more or less designed to deliberately avoid teaching about the PRL and the early 1990's says it all.

Certainly, some of those AK members were hardly innocent - we all know how they terrorised people who were on the same side.

As for the leadership - whoever sent children into a completely unnecessary battle should have been executed for war crimes.

Of course,this doesnt mean your relative did not take part in the Up-Rising.
Depending on which side of the Atlantic you are on etc there are various organisations that *may* be able to help you. Records were kept but often are patchy at best but even if your relative wasnt a formal member of the resistence this doesnt mean they didnt take part.


neither can you,tell me,just what made you such a bitter,tragic person that you have to denegrate the memory of dead children?


Id rather my child died on its feet facing its oppressors than dragged out of a celler to be shot clinging to its mothers hem................or burnt alive in a church...............or raped to death by a gang of ukrainians..............

So, delphi, p!ss off with the negativity,its unseemly.
Besides,as anyone with half a brain cell and no axe to grind knows that "children" were not encouraged into combat roles but support roles,in exactly the same way Boy Scouts and young girls were mobilised during the London Blitz.

Did some under 18s pick up guns and fight? Of course they did,I imagine street kids or traumatized kids in any culture would do the same in the situation.....

What disgusts me is that they died in vain - they were sent into a battle which was unwinnable, on the whim of some very poor leadership. I remember when I first read about the Uprising - I couldn't believe the sheer stupidity of it all, and how children were essentially used to further the motives of some very questionable leadership.

Those children are heroes, but the leadership - well.


Wouldn't you be happier that your child wasn't sent to the slaughter needlessly?

I still think that Poland's greatest chance would have been to lie passive while the Soviets rushed on Berlin - only to then cut the Soviet supply lines. The Western Allies wouldn't have interfered (look at the reaction towards Finland - utter disinterest) - and the Soviets would've had huge problems with the AK. The Soviets would've already had to deal with a hell of a battle for Warsaw - would they really have done so well if they were suddenly faced with a rebellion from previously passive Poles?

Me too,but I choose appropriate forums for those sort of discusions,not a thread started by someone who has just lost a relative who may or may not have been in Warsaw in '44.

You take soviets for fools !

Read this a few years back thought I'd share it, thought it was the best eye witness account of what happened during the Warsaw Uprising:

warsawuprising.com/witness/schenk.htm

I've also read that a few times. Should be required reading for anybody who claims to be at all interested in the Warsaw Uprising.

wrong, that Monk from Prague only mentioned urbs Gyddanyzc in his biography. The settlement already existed when he first arrived there.

around 50 BC- 600 AD the Goths settlement of Southeast Sweden.

7.-9. Century Slavic settlement Danzig (Pomorans), who mixed with the remaining Goths and Prussians (mainly east of the Vistula).

997 Prussian missionary Adalbert of Prague first mentioned urbs (settlement) Gyddanyzc in his biography

Urbs is more often translated as Town or Large Town (even City,but unless you live in the USA where cities can be the size of European villages that gets confusing as they were tiny by modern standards), a couple of steps up from settlement.......

Why is it that in the US there are so many towns and cities ending in ville and in the UK hardly any? what's the British counterpart?

It's not my translation. I found it online the way it is and posted it here to correct his statement about the Slavic monk.