The Untold Battle of Britain

That explains so much about his online personna. Thank you for posting that, finally we know where Harry is coming from :) Good luck with your continued arguments Chris but be prepared to be called a liar quite often and don't be surprised that there will be no links to back up Harry's wild claims, he tends to do that when cornered ;) but then seeing as you know him personally I am sure you know what he's like already.


At the height of the Battle of Britain the UK was struggling to get trained pilots into the air and at one point Polish pilots accounted for 20% of the available total of trained pilots. Despite most of them already being trained pilots with battle experience they spent a few months doing ground training which included them being forced to "learn" how to fly in formation riding around on bicycles. 303 squadron, formed on 2nd August 1940, had their first taste of battle on the 30th August 1940 when Flight Officer Paszkiewicz broke away from another training flight to engage enemy aircraft that had been encountered during the course of the flight. He shot down an Me110 which was 303 squadron's first official "kill" of the Battle of Britain. The squadron was then declared operational and flew their first official battle mission the following day when they down 4 enemy aircraft.

Nice to see another of PF's noted liars coming in to support his fellow fantasist. But hey, I'm sure you know far better than me where I'm from.


We're still waiting for your link to Gross saying that the Jews of Poland greeted the Red Army with open arms, and for the links you refused to provide about the number of Jews in the Polish army (although I of course did provide links).


We will, of course, never get a source for that particular gem.


Fully trained? Amongst other problems, some of the pilots had never flown planes with retractable undercarriage, which explains the problems the Polish squadrons had with pilots landing undercarriage up. The pilots needed to learn rudimentary English. British throttles were the reverse of Polish ones. Few Polish pilots had experience with constant speed propellers. Polish pilots had never heard of Radar or of interceptions controlled from the ground. All of this was noted by the first commanding officer of 303 Squadron (who went on to say that he was "amazed and very favorably impressed at how rapidly the Poles mastered these complexities, both pilots and ground crews.") polishsquadronsremembered.com/303/303_story.html

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Thats simple type conversion, something all pilots have to undergo when they change aircraft type.

Harry you are more of a bullshitter than liar. Economical with the truth.

The first commanding officer of 303 Squadron says otherwise.


polishsquadronsremembered.com/303/303_story.html


I give sourced facts; you just present your opinions (which are very often anti-semitic ones).

So what, nothing spectacular there. Do you know the sort of death rate the RAF had in peacetime training pilots in the 1950's? Hundreds per year.


Playing the race card again. Stick that where the sun doesn't shine. I despise you, I'm not anti-Semitic because of that. I find it offensive that you distort facts to push your agenda, that doesn't make me anti-Semitic. I simply hate lying, economical-with-the-truth, bullshitters such as yourself.

You don't source facts, you make off the cuff claims. Other posters have posted sources showing the Jewish collaboration with the communists and you now claim that there is no proof.

Lying Harry.

It shows very clearly that the Polish pilots were not as fully trained as certain posters here have claimed.


Do you perchance have a source for that particular gem?


The post above yours shows the truth of that statement.


Really? Do I? Or is that just yet another of your lies? Of course, if it is not a lie, you'll have no problems quoting from a post in which I say that there is no proof of Jewish collaboration with the communists. But I do feel that this particular lie is too ridiculous for even you to try to support.

pprune.org/military-aircrew/70987-meteor-accident-statistics-12.html

150 losses of one aircraft type alone in 1952

Mods. Please change the title of this thread to: The endlessly rehashed old story of how a handful of Polish heros saved the planet.

In the USA -


usnwc.edu/getattachment/76679e75-3a49-4bf5-854a-b0696e575e0a/The-U-S--Navy-s-Transition-to-Jets

I've met him, and he wasn't a bad guy to have a beer with, but he spends far too much time on Internet forums. His translating business in Warsaw must be very slow now since he is here so much. The problem is that he never supports anything that he writes. He thinks this is like a pub discussion where he can just make things up. Really this is the first time he ever called me a liar, but he did write about his dual citizenship before. He writes enough excrement that I doubt anyone really wants to go through it all. Some of it gets deleted, and then he does use sock puppets/pen names too.

I first saw Harry in action on another forum. He got banned for arguing with this one guy, then came back with a pen name. These two went back at each other all of the time. I thought they were two gay men having a spat. I was shocked to learn that both are apparently heterosexual. I have better things to do with my time. I'm putting him on ignore and everyone else who wants to have intelligent discussions should do the same.

^ All very interesting stuff Chris, but I note you haven't quoted from any post in which I say I'm South African; aren't you even going to make any attempt at all to support that particular lie?


So basically 'what some bloke on the internet said'. Well, that is an excellent source.
Do forgive me if I prefer a rather more detailed source:
ukserials.com/losses-1959.htm
which shows 78 fatalities from 40 fatal accidents (41 if you include the one where the fatality was a cow).

Why are you trying to compare the conversion training from piston engines to jet engines with 1920s style bi planes and modern for the time fighter planes like the hurrican and spitfire?

You cannot let a bunch of untrained newbies loose in a highly co ordinated battle especially if they dont speak english.
RAF tactics centered on communication and getting exactly the right amount of planes in exactly the right place,not letting a bunch of cowboys go off on solo hunting trips jabbering away in a funny lingo....

OH please they learned cooperation of attack on bomber formation form Poles. The only cowboy in Polish wing was Czech.

Your highest scoring Ace wasnt he? ;)

During the BoB, yes he was. I think that either the third (or perhaps fourth) highest BoB scoring 303 squadron flier was also not Polish (Canadian from memory).

Ah, a dilettante on the Polish armed forces! Perhaps you could tell me how many English served in the Polish Armed Forces during WW2 prior to capitulation, and then how many subsequently served in the AK (aside from the heroic actions of John Ward of course).

Just figures mind you, no need for any comments, or opinions.

John Farley, OBE AFC CEng is not 'some Bloke on the Internet'. He was the chief test pilot for the Harrier
harrier.org.uk/history/history_farley.htm

aviewfromthehover.com/johnfarley.php
youtube.com/watch?v=tfbHMxnlbfI

He is 79 years old and a respected member of PPrune, a forum where bullshitters like yourself are quickly weeded out. if you actually read the whole thread you will see the detailed discussion of the loses, including newspaper reports, accident reports and person remembrances.


Its a incomplete list for gods sake. I also posted US statistics which are similarly horrific.

I think Chris R's description of you is pretty apt. You will go to any lengths to prove you are right, its like some silly game. You don't know everything, so stop trying to prove you do.

You will have to expand on this if you want any answers....
Are you asking if there were any British mercenaries in Poland in 1939?
If you are asking for figures for how many BRITISH people served in the Western Polish armed forces between 1940 and 1945, Ive no idea,probably not that many considering it was the POLISH ARMED FORCES.......................lets take a look at what they were wearing,shooting,driving ,eating,drinking etc ad nauseum.

Certainly didnt spend the war wearing Polish uniforms and firing Polish (german) rifles did they.
Come back when you actually know what you are talking about boy.

Robert is not alone, although Brits are badly served by many of their countrymen posting here:


w_ww.cnn.com/services/presents.opk/wr.opk/cnnopk_ensor_article.html

Of course, the anti-Polonists here will conclude that the old girl had gone daft already when she gave that speech. However, she was not alone in that opinion:


Further reading for those who want more than the typical pub style "facts" offered here by anti-Polonists:

Arkady Fiedler, 303 Squadron: The Legendary Battle of Britain Fighter Squadron

Lynne Olson and Stanley Cloud, A Question of Honor: The Kościuszko Squadron; Forgotten Heroes of World War II (New York: Alfred Knopf, 2003).

Adam Zamoyski, The Forgotten Few: The Polish Air Force in the Second World War


Funny how well the Czechs served in the Polish Air Force in the U.K. It really shows how little Czechs blamed Poles for the Anglo-French sell out of Czechoslovakia, since they served under Polish command. Another anti-Polonist smear debunked by historic fact... How ironic that the Brits needed the Poles and Czechs to save their bacon on the Battle of Britain after they abandoned them to the Nazis without any significant military action in 1938-39!


Consider that he has a very German middle name which I believe comes from his ethnic German grandfather. It explains much of the anti-Polonism which he spouts here. Simply use the ignore button to improve the discussion. Ignoring him is truly the worst thing that we can do to him here.

Funny how you can't tell us how many Czechs served in the Polish Air Force. Nearly as funny as fact that the vast majority of the Czech and Slovak pilots who took part in the battle of Britain served in No. 310 (Czechoslovak) Squadron RAF (which interestingly also had a single Polish pilot in it, just as 303 had a single Czech pilot in it) and No. 312 (Czechoslovak) Squadron RAF.

radio.cz/en/section/curraffrs/battle-of-britain-remembering-the-czech-aces-among-the-few


You mean the joint Polish-Nazi invasion of Czechoslovakia. The same invasion which resulted in the only Czech who flew with a Polish squadron being one who has not wanted in his own nation's airforce.

Harry, why don;t you ask Czechs if they perceive Polish action as invasion or a hostile action - btw all Czech pilots went through Poland on their way to France and Britain not only Frantisek - Frantiśek just chose to remain in Poland and join the Polish military with a couple of his friends

Strangely, none of the ones I have spoken to about it perceive the Polish invasion as anything other than a hostile action.


Got a source for that claim?
bbm.org.uk/pilots-cz.htm
seems to disagree with you.


I don't suppose that there is any danger of you naming those men is there?

Vaclav Brejcha was born in Zivotice, Czechoslovakia on 13th April 1915. He was in the Czech Air Force before the war and escaped to Poland after the Germans took over the country in March 1939. After Poland fell, he escaped to France, joining the Armee de l'Air and flying MB152 aircraft with GC III/10 and Curtiss Hawk 75's with GC I/4.

you should read your own sources Harry

Harry the thing is most of these Czech fliers went to Poland is because they had not had much choice - Poland was the only reasonably friendly neighbouring country these days

Evzen Cizek was born in Ostrava on December 10th 1904 and joined the Czech Air Force in the twenties. He went to Poland after the Germans moved in to Czechoslovakia in March 1939. Cizek was in the Czech Air Force in Poland but when that country fell in September 1939 he went to France. Commissioned in the Armee de l'Air, Cizek was in Groupe de Chasse III/3 in May 1940. He destroyed a Me109 on the 11th, shared in the destruction of Me109's on the 14th and 19th and on June 16th he destroyed one more.

it looks Harry like these guys haven't treated Poland as a hostile country and neither Poland treated them as enemies

Oh, but I did:
"Emil Fechtner was born on September 16th 1916. He was in the Czech Air Force when the Germans took over Czechoslovakia on March 15th 1939. He left the country a few months later, made his way to France and joined the Foreign Legion, the only unit open to foreigners. At the outbreak of war he was seconded to the Armee de l'Air. After the French collapse, Fechtner went to England, arriving in late June 1940."

"Stanislav Fejfar was born in Stikov, Czechoslovakia on 25th November 1912. Serving with the Czech air force in 1939, he escaped to France following the German takeover of his country on 15th March 1939."

"Josef Antonin Jaske was born on January 30th 1913 and was in the Czech Air Force from 1933 until escaping to France in 1939 after the Germans took over Czechoslovakia. Jaske joined the Armee de l'Air and in April 1940 he was serving with Groupe de Chasse II/5."

Perhaps you should have read more than just the first record.


I see that you're already backing away from your laughable claim that "all Czech pilots went through Poland on their way to France and Britain not only Frantisek".

I have read a good couple of entries there and most state that the given pilot went through Poland, in cases there is no mention of Poland it doesn't mean that a given pilot hadn't been to Poland on his way to France - my statement was a bit of an exaggeration - however other ways were exceptional and Poland was the rule - there was an entire shipment of Czech air force members from Gdynia as one can figure from the entries on your site - Poland was a safe haven for Czech pilots however you want it the other way - from geographical point of view also Poland was the only gate to France or England at that time for stranded Czech pilots