The Untold Battle of Britain

Britain and Poland hadn't signed any treaty regarding military conflict with the USSR.


Don't lie: no such thing was agreed at Yalta.

quote=enkidu]Name the one (single one) British-born General-Major, bearer of the Order of the Lion and CBE who was forced after the war to work as a day labourer in the factory and I would gladly shut up and accept your argument.[/quote]

Tell us how he was forced. Did the Brits put a gun to his head every morning to make him work? Or did they threaten his wife & son?


They were not asked to leave. They were told they could have a free trip back to Poland or to any British empire/commonwealth nation or could stay in Britain and be given a home, a job, an education, the opportunity to have their families brought to Britain and citizenship for all. And the majority of them decided to stay in Britain. No amount of pathetic lying from scum like you will ever change any of those facts.

Maybe you are 'fast with Wiki', but you can't read it.

You're either a cretin or a liar or both. At Yalta it was agreed that there would be free elections in Poland. Why would that have been agreed to if Poland was planned to become a Soviet province, as you claim?

The precise wording of the Yalta agreement is "This Polish Provisional Government of National Unity shall be pledged to the holding of free and unfettered elections as soon as possible on the basis of universal suffrage and secret ballot. In these elections all democratic anti-Nazi parties shall have the right to take part and to put forward candidates." Read it here and stop telling your pathetic lies.

h-net.org/~hst203/documents/YALTA.html

Who is more naive, I wonder. You or Churchill and Roosevelt? Who actually ever believed for a second that the USSR would respect this agreement? If Churchill and Roosevelt did, and from what I read they did seem to be hoodwinked by Stalin for a time, then they don't deserve to be called "great politicians" or "leaders".

Hindsight is a wonderful thing wouldn't you agree Magda?

I wouldn't call it hindsight when the USSR had already shown what they are up to, esp. under Stalin, pre-WW2. I understand it became necessary at one point in the war to team up with good ol' Batyushka Stalin to overcome Hitler, but he was a wolf in sheep's clothing nonetheless, and forgetting about that seems like a major political blunder to me.

It's not exactly like the USSR was all rose gardens and unicorns and puppies until the Yalta agreement.

You are a misplaced person, Harry. Wrong place, wrong time, You'd make a prominent Pravda correspondent. Too late, and you have to live with it.

TRJN will be pledged. A puppet government sitting on Soviet bayonets will hold free elections in a country occupied by an army of a murderous and rapacious regime. Not even Roosevelt believed this, but you are obviously capable of unheard of feats of faith. Which I doubt, personally, so other conclusions leap to mind.

I believe you are smart enough to answer the simple question, why was a new provisional government needed at all, when the fully legitimate one was alive and kicking, and had a long and successful history of cooperation with the Allies. And even a representation in place, although not for long.

HAHAHA so that's what they teach you in england???

Well Churchill and Roosevelt was kinda naive...

Not so, actually. And Stalin hastened to provide another eye-opener already in March, by arresting the representatives of the Polish government, who agreed to talk, having no real choice left. They were publicly tried and convicted for treason against the Soviet Union, well before the Allies formally abandoned the Govt in Exile and smiled to Bierut.

English historians tend to look at what documents actually say, not what they want those documents to say (as historians from a certain nation tend to do).


Make your mind up: either they mistakenly trusted Stalin (not that they were in a position to do anything even if they didn't trust him) or they betrayed Poland (and then made sure the agreement they signed made no mention of that); they can not have been mistaken and betrayed Poland.


I do love the way that I point out that you're lying through your teeth and quote the documentation that shows you are and the only way you can react is personal insults: it really shows how pathetic your lies are.


Given that the govt-in-exile was a self-appointed continuation of the openly anti-semitic military junta that ruled Poland in 1939, it had no more claim to be legitimate than any other government of Poland.


I'll end with another of the questions which Poles never answer: what could Britain have done to stop Poland coming under Soviet domination after the war?

For starters, it did not have to flirt with Stalin and negotiate percentages of influence in Europe and beyond.

Does Coventry ring any bells?


This is just my thought, had I been from a foreign country and perceived Britian as abhorrent and an abomination, I wouldnt have come to settle here - but Poles did and continue to arrive right through the 1950s and 1960s and 1970s and 1980s and 1990s and then the biggest influx of in the 2000s, they could have gone to other countries but chose to settle here - why do you think that was? I mean, there wasnt the abundance of benefits in the early years as there are now, could it be that Britain wasnt as loathed as some might like to make out on here?

You just sumise what happened between the 3 leaders, no one really knows for sure,the thing I know for sure is that Britain was in no shape to take on Russia and I dont belive Amercia had the inclination to, what would be the benefit?

No, I said "what could Britain have done to stop Poland coming under Soviet domination after the war?" Either answer the question or admit that you're refusing to answer it because we all know that there was precisely six fifths of bugger all that Britain could have done to stop what could Britain have done to stop Poland coming under Soviet domination after the war.

I agree that Britain could have done nothing - especially on its own. Nothing, that is, except shown that it has some basic respect for the nations (not only Poland) who had naively fought for their (the nation's) freedom throughout the war. Stalin would have probably gotten his little Iron Curtain playground anyway. But Britain and the US did not have to actively participate in the whole scheme.* This is what makes us bitter to this day, this is what we perceive as betrayal.

*But of course they did. I know, they needed to safeguard their spheres of influence and stuff.

He's an Aussie? that explains a lot. There a sub section of of Australians who are nasty, petty minded racists with attitudes that hark back to the 1950's. Repulsive if your happen to get surrounded by them as several friends have. Put them all of Australians which is a pity because many of them are decent people.

FFS how old are you? I suspect you were not even thought of nevermind born at this time. If you are going to be bitter tell it to the Germans and the Russians after all they invaded. Not the French, British or USA.

Excuse me, I have relatives that moved to Aus in the 50s, they are neither racist nor repulsive...Dont you just hate sweeping statements?


Oh well, bitterness is like a cancer, it eats away and twists people up...quite sad really, we should pitty rather than barate.

Very generous of you.

what are you about?

It was merely a comparison - you mentioned Dresden, I mention Coventry, which was flattened to the ground by Germans who obviously had little compassion for those living there..It wasnt a strategic target like other cities were, I can understand why London - its our capital and I can why undersand Manchester, it was an industrial hub where factories were producing weapons for the war effort and I can understand why Liverpool it was a port for good such as food - but Coventry? Did they read their maps wrong?

What are you about?

By the way I dont condone the wholesale slaughter of inconent people, but we are talking about a time when two countries were at war with each other and emotions were running high, rightly or wrongly, Britain did what it did, it was dog eat dog and and it was sending a clear message to Germany that England would not lie down and roll over! They relaliated and the war continued with more inocent lives being lost..Thats war, but this is 2010 and our two nations have moved on, maybe its time other nations do the same!

No I'm not an Aussie. However, I am hugely amused to see you complaining about other people being racists while you yourself are being racist!

You have knee-jerk reactions. I mentioned Dresden for a reason.

You blind or retarded or just being yourself? Too much effort to read a couple of posts with understanding?


Says Harry the Ultimate Authority On the International Law and Internal Issues of Rzeczpospolita Polska.

You are not even amusing. You are a clown with no talent, I'd rather watch yet another whitewash-down-the-pants trick any Sunday than get excited with your attempts on provocation. I only answered to make it clear to everybody what I think about you, with full justification, and once is enough.

Over and out from me, wankker, you can bang your head against any wall you may find reactive.

^ Sigh, yet another loser who can't handle his lies being answered with sourced facts. Nice to see from your reaction that I've got right under your skin by exposing you as the pathetic liar which you are. Do feel very free to come back and post more lies for me to answer with facts that prove you're a retarded cretin.

I've never seen you actually quote any hard facts on any subject. It would be nice if you did, for a change.

See above for me quoting exactly what the Yalta agreement actually says, despite the ceaseless Polish lies about it.

Yeah, that's part of what the Yalta Agreement says. On the other hand, it would be nice if you supplied us with some facts about how the same agreement was actually implemented (or not).

A couple of sentences put down on paper are not "a fact".

Actual events, such as summary executions, appearance of new governments, civil wars, elections whether democratic or manipulated are, on the other hand, facts.
Names, dates, events - facts.

What is written on a piece of paper, does not actually necessarily mean that it is so. This is a complex historical piece to debate, and I have mixed feelings about Poland coming under the communist spell after WW2. On one hand I'm sad that the Allies did not stop the Soviet war-machine from taking over half of Europe, just years after going to war with Germany to stop them from doing the same thing. To exchange one evil with another, while loosing millions of lives doing it, seems illogical. Would't nazi-Germany be easier to deal with than the Soviet Union? Didn't Churchill after the war say these words; “I will not pretend that if I had to choose between communism and fascism, I would choose communism. I hope not to be called upon to survive in the world of a government of either of those dispensations.” On the other hand, Poland does not look like France, England or Holland, full of "western values", like prisons that resemble hotels, gangrapes, millions of 3rd world people, mosques in every city and so on. Poland under communism was maybe the lesser of two evils, if you look at it today. In 1945, for the people of Poland, it was surely not.

As for taking words and papers at face value, well, ask the residents of DDR, "Deutsche Demokratische Republik", just how "Democratic", their elections, their media, their freedom of movement was. How about the "Democratic Republic of Congo"? Or "Peoples Republic of China". I don't see the "People", being represented too much there. How about our laws that state that rapists and murderers should be locked away for long periods, but somehow get early released or are being leniently treated only to come out and do harm again, even thought the law stipulates that they should be in jail for a long time! "But it's in the law!"...The truth is something completely different. As was the "Yalta-agreement".

From Wikipedia (I know Harry will be happy now);

"Poland was the first item on the Soviet agenda. Stalin stated that "[f]or the Soviet government, the question of Poland was one of honor" and security because Poland had served as a historical corridor for forces attempting to invade Russia.[6] In addition, Stalin stated regarding history that "because the Russians had greatly sinned against Poland", "the Soviet government was trying to atone for those sins."[6] Stalin concluded that "Poland must be strong" and that "the Soviet Union is interested in the creation of a mighty, free and independent Poland." Accordingly, Stalin stipulated that Polish government-in-exile demands were not negotiable: the Soviet Union would keep the territory of eastern Poland they had already annexed in 1939, and Poland was to be compensated for that by extending its Western borders at the expense of Germany. Comporting with his prior statement, Stalin promised free elections in Poland despite the Soviet sponsored provisional government recently installed by him in Polish territories occupied by the Red Army".

Yes, how nice of Stalin to let Poland have "free elections"...because like Harry said, "It's says so in the Yalta agreement". Don't bother to actually check if it actually happened.. But then Harry swallows everthing that the winners have written since the war. And if anybody disagrees with him they are instantly branded liars AND whatever he feels like calling people here at PF that particular day. Harry's "gift" is that he is a "nobody". In the sense that he has no loyalty to any country or people. He doesn't have to defend anything, he can just point fingers, ramble on about some wikipedia entry he found and call people liars. If you call him australian, he says no, call him English, the same thing. He claims to be able to get 7 passports, so he effectively has protected himself from any attack based on his own background, while being in the position to say stuff like; "Typical polish!". Those are the words of a coward. Harry; why don't you give us the list of the countries that you claim will give you a passport, and we can then go through them and all the good and the bad they have to answer for? And then constantly bash you for them! Doesn't that sound fair? Or will that make it harder for you to debate and be the "king"?

I am thankful for all the help the British goverment gave to Poland. But the story behind the whole Yalta agreement will probably never get out. A drunk Churchill, a weak Roosevelt and a mega-lo-maniac like Stalin cutting up Europe to serve their hidden agendas? The real people of Europe never had a say, but big corporations, the bankiers, the people behind the curtains like the Rothschilds, the Warburgs, the Rockefellers, now they knew AND had the power to control. And they did, while the "three stooges" sat in their chairs posing for the media, saying "The war is over"!

Dariusz

I don't need to: I was pointing out that claiming the Allies agreed at Yalta that Poland would become a Soviet province is, despite all Polish claims to the contrary, a lie. The fact is that no such thing was agreed at Yalta. Not that many Poles bother with facts when they whine on and on and on about how horrible Britain has been to Poles over the years.

I started this theread to draw attention to a story that was told from the Polish pilots of 303 Sqn's pespective (through the medium of a diary), rather than from a history book in school.

Whilst I did study contemporary history at school; it was never taught from the perspective of the "Free Forces", and specifically, 303 Sqn.

This programme offered that perspective; I greatly appreciate that.

I am, after all, a "Brit", and would, therefore, be incapable of recoginising true courage in the face of extreme adversity, & readily acknowledging those sacrifices as made by all of the "free forces" fighting with GB and her allies during the course of WW II.

Moreover, having served in the RAF, and having been based at RAF Northolt during my service, I am happy, and proud, to draw attention to the courage & sacrifice of those, such as 303 Sqn, to this forum.

For those of you who believe that the rest of the world is against you, fear not!. Some of us do recognise the valuable & decisive contribution of the Polish pilots during the course of the Battle of Britain, and thereafter.

For those of you to myopic to recognise the distinction, I offer my sincere apologies.