Slavic vs Germanic thinking.... and the philosophical differences

Totally understandable given the fact that his mother's name was Barbara Watzenrode ...


Me, Australian... :)

Ironside, whilst it is true that the German Empire settled only sparingly, "colonizing" places such as Tanganyika (formerly German East Africa), Cameroon (Kamerun) and parts of the Central Congo, namely by Carl Peters the explorer, compared with France, Britain, Portugal or Spain, don't forget either that had Hitler won the war, practically ALL of Europe, Russia, perhaps the US herself, would have become enslaved through one of the most massive colonization efforts the world has ever seen since the mighty Genghis Khan himself several thousand years prior:-)

A further major difference between so-called Slavic vs. Germanic thinking revolves around this peculiarly German idea of "Weltfroemmigkeit", something nearly impossible to translate accurately, but approximating "secular piety", the notion that the external world holds sway over the spiritual, that obedience to the higher law supersedes even the belief in God, and that finally disobeying this supreme will represents an even greater crime than murder, the latter idea being extracted from Kant's Critique!! It could be argued that Kant's philosophy would've been non-existent without the foundation laid by this turning away from a monotheistic God as the cornerstone of civilized society.

This philosophical tradition of secular piety has no equivalent in any Slavic culture with which I'm even partly familiar.

Apologies there, Ironside! My post was meant for PlasticPole.
:-)))

'.......world always thought Copernicus was Polish Scientist.
It follows from the context of my message



'
Well, actually I was taking about Gemans who are mentioned here

GERMANS WANT TO GERMANIZE KOPERNIK (COPERNICUS
The link was given by you.
polishforums.com/news-politics-4/germans-want-germaniz e-kopernik-copernicus-outrage-28721/
Don't you remember ?

They enjoy cutting and deleting posts here....

Kopernikuś is justifiedly claimed by BOTH countries as one of their own, much as Chopin/Szopen is claimed as French by France because of his father's birth, but Polish by Poland because his mother was Polish and he was born in Poland, not France. When Kopernikuś/Kopernigk was born, the city of Thorn (Toruń) was part of the territory still belonging to the German Empire:-)

Yes, and only to show you that you were flogging a dead horse.

Secular - not religious.
Piety - deep respect for Good.

I'm struck dumb with the complexity of German culture......
Even do not know what to say.......
Fantastic.........deep respect for German culture ........ and I'm serious about it

I understand that the link is a very important source of information for you
So it's true that we are wasting our time

But see Chopin' s music is 100% polish. He wrote polonaises and his music is influenced by polish folk music , not French. It is ridiculous too

Not factual. The German Empire were created in 1872. Anyway that is not issue as that subject has been long decided by the people knowledgeable in the field that Kopernik has been willing and loyal subject of the Polish Kingdom. The only issues that are being debatable here is his "blood" but that different.

I have never heard about French claims.
Please provide a link, if possible, I suspect manipulation and it is clear why you are doing this
Sorry but Typically German behaviour

Most folks would agree that both Poland and Germany can "claim" him, but we all know of course that people of a certain political affiliation don't like that idea...


I don't think Wlodzimierz is German.


Question is, by whom? But of course, only people of a certain political affiliation suspect manipulation...

consulfrance-atlanta.org/spip.php?article2433
telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/classicalmusic/7244031/Chopin-belongs-to-us-says-Poland.html
ljms.org/Education-and-Community/Learn-More/Chopin-and-Polish-Nationalism.html

Could you claim the moon? Sure you could. Doesn't it make a ounce of sense? It doesn't.


To be factual it was the German Nazis who were claiming or ousting certain people even historical figures. More often then not that was based on blood. One could be ten times removed Maritain and still because they could find an ounce of German or what they though was German blood they claimed him.

So as far as history goes we cannot establish whether or not koperinki was an ethnic German or whatever passed for that at the time the one thing is certain that he was a loyal subject of the Polish Kingdom which he proved on the battlefield and has been educated together with elite of that Kingdom in Cracow University.

I wonder why we even debate the obvious? Let talk about Australia the land many dedicated German supporters of Hitler emigrated after the war.
About Chopin let make it simple for you. If he wouldn't consider himself a Pole he would stay in the Russian Empire rather than travel to Paris.

From the last link I posted (or use Google if you want):

Quote:
" I have saved for my conclusion the one comment from Chopin himself that appears to speak to the composer's intention to raise the flag of Polish nationalism through his music. "The Official Bulletin declared that the Poles should be as proud of me as the Germans are of Mozart-obvious nonsense."

My whole point is that nobody except for a handful of people really care whether Chopin was French or Polish, or whether Copernicus was Polish or German. You get Chopin's remark regarding the Germans and Mozart, right?

seems that those people are congregating on PF. when comes to Koperink I don't even understand why there are any doubt the case is clear.

Sure, I understand why Chopin is more controversial but still. There are plenty of expert, who know the subject. i don't really care as long as somebody doesn't talk rubbish.

32 pages of a stupid thread called "GERMANS WANT TO GERMANIZE KOPERNIK (COPERNICUS)!!! OUTRAGE!" tell a different story.

IT IS CLEAR ENOUGH THAT HE ( Wlodzimierz ) SUPPORTS GERMAN SIDE, SO DO NOT
PAY ATTENTION TO HIS NAME , PLEASE
I DO NOT THINK THAT ALL GERMANS ARE LIARS BUT AFTER ALL Myunkhgauzen
IS GERMAN AND DO NOT FORGET ABOUT Göbbels AND PLUS MY OWN EXPERIENCE
SO I KNOW WHAT I 'M TALKING ABOUT.

IT IS EVEN POSSIBLE TO EXPLAIN THIS PHENOMENON (LIE) FROM GERMAN HISTORY


You are probably monolingual

What are you talking about? Kopernikus belongs to Polish history and tradition and claim the he was German is simply ridiculous. That is my point. What Germans are claiming I don't care, they have tradition of claiming many things that were not true. I see them on par with Ukrainians who are claiming a lot of things.

Chopin yes, seems to me he was a Pole but if you would prove to me otherwise I would be fine with that. Nevertheless his music is Polish, yes universal but at the same time deeply Polish.

Ironside, the period during which Copernicus (I decided to use the international, i.e. English, spelling) was born and lived was considered quite DEFINITELY the "First German Empire" otherwise known univerisally as the Holy Roman Empire!!! Present-day Polish territory on which the contemporary Republic of Poland lies was at one time the cultural heritage of German sovereigns, the presence of a Polish royal family notwithstanding.

If not, why then the dual naming of a majority of Polish towns such as Toruń/Thorn, Bytom/Beuthen, Jasna Góra/Hellberg etc.. other than owing to GERMAN colonization during the earlier era of the Teutonic Knights??

No, Copernicus may well have been of Polish "blood", even language, but a German by birth.

@TheOther et al. I'm not a German national:-)

HUNGARY

hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolausz_Kopernikusz
Nikolausz Kopernikusz (latinosan Nicolaus Copernicus, lengyelül Mikołaj Kopernik) (Toruń, 1473. február 19. - Frombork, 1543. május 24.) lengyel csillagász.

lengyel csillagász.- Polish astronomer

RUSSIA

ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Коперник,_Николай
Фромборк) - польский астроном, математик, механик, экономист, каноник

польский астроном - Polish astronomer

BIELORUSSIA
Мікалай Капэрнік (па-польску: Mikołaj Kopernik; па-лацінску: Nicolaus Copernicus; 19 лютага 1473, Торунь, Каралеўская Прусія, Каралеўства Польскае - 24 траўня 1543, Фромборк, Варміскае княскае эпіскапства, Каралеўства Польскае) - польскі вучоны,

польскі вучоны, - Polish astronomer

czech republic

cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikuláš_Koperník
Mikuláš Koperník (19. února 1473, Toruň - 24. května 1543, Frombork) byl polský astronom, matematik, právník, stratég a lékař, římskokatolický duchovní a

polský astronom, -- Polish astronomer

AND SO ON ON ON ON AND ON

SEE, MY DEAR THE THEOTHER, HIS TEACHERS WERE POLES NOT GERMANS

Yes, it is typical to adapt the spelling of both geographical as well as personal names to a given language. Yet what you're describing is something quite different from historical primogeniture. Indeed, very possibly Copernicus was a Pole, and yet perhaps certain German nationalists claimed him as their own for the same reason that certain Poles honestly claim the writer Guenter Grass as a Pole, despite the fact that he was born in Danzig, at one time GERMAN!! That one of his parents was a Kaszub/Kaschub/Cashubian and the other an ethnic German merely fuels the debate!

Good hunting, folksLOL

Would you be so kind and point out Thorn on this map?:




Never met a Pole who would claim that Grass as being Polish.


One would need to have a clue about history to lecture others but I'm sure such a detail will not stop you.

Would I point out Thorn on a map? - You find me a German map (either prior to or from the Hitler Era) and I'd be delighted:-)

"Never met a Pole who would claim that Grass as being Polish."

Then you haven't lived, my friendLOL

My knowledge of history is continually evolving, Ironside. How about yours?

Well, I found you a German map which displays borders of states from the year1470, that is three years prior to Kopernik birth. What has Hitler to do with 1470 must be your sweet secret.

Hitler in fact re-named many Polish city names, e.g. £ódź became "Litzmannstadt", later morphing into simply "Lodsch" for the German tongue and its unfamiliarity with Polish phonology:-)

You still haven't understood that I don't care whether Copernicus was Polish or German.

That's not the point of the thread though. We're supposed to be comparing Germanic and Slavic world views. Even if contemporary Slavs and Germans express themselves to one another in English rather than in German or another language, their thoughts, be they in English, will nonetheless be filtered through the lense of their native language/culture:-)

Can you read map?
The point is that Kopernik has been born as a subject of the Polish King on lands that belonged to the Polish King. The fact is that your knowledge of history is very blurry at best of times.

From English wiki:
Encyclopædia Britannica,[98] Encyclopedia Americana,[99] The Columbia Encyclopedia[100] The Oxford World Encyclopedia,[101] and World Book Encyclopedia[102] refer to Copernicus as a "Polish astronomer".

Probably in Germany a large-scale endeavor to transliterate the countless names of Jewish scientists into Hebrew is in full swing ?
If not, dear Wlodzimierz, remind them, please. What about international assistance ?

Let's concede the fact that Copernicus was a native "Pole":-)

Nothing changes the fact that the borders between Poland and that-time "Germany" were often blurrier than my historical knowledge has ever been!

Good thing that you count all ethnic German citizens of the Second Republic as Poles, too... :)