Silesia to Czechia

I fully support to give eastern lands to Poland. However the Silesia should be given back - to Czechs who held it for centuries...

They held it for two centuries to be exact. To se ne vrati, pane Havranek! Silesia should be Polish.

1336-1742 is two centuries? good math! :)

According to a certain line of reasoning then, why not return formerly-German-held territory, now situated squarely in Poland, to Germany?
It's equally ludicrous!!
:-)

Nothing to Germany, nothing. Actually, Germany would be even reduced when Lusatia declare independence. It would be price for new German investments in `Drang Nach Osten`. Well, they tried

Whereas Czechia could have some legitimate claim to Silesia, Germany cannot. Silesia was conquered on Austria by Prussia in 1742.

Crowie...you should stop thinking in the lines of the last century. Power, influence, success, wealth, respect has no longer to do something with the size of the territory!

You can get Lusatia if you so want it so, Germany would still be the "bigger" fish, on all accounts!

Join the modern world, where borders are only a common hallucination...

Yes, Germans would become kind of Jews of modern era. They will lose Germany and become nation of global traders. Actually, kind of new Gypsies.

Wasn't Bohemia part of the HRE?

Anyways Why on earth would Poland give back Western parts of Poland? What is there in Belarus/Ukraine that could be gained? Not much except tax payers and agricultural land. Poland exports food so... it's not that necessary to gain.

Even so, both Poland and Czech Republic are part of the EU...

To the best of my knowledge, Bohemia aka Boehmen, like Moravia aka Maehren, had always been Czech territory. The Germans acquired her from the Czechs, not vice-versa. Although what with all the wars throughout the past five-hundred years or so and the borders continually changing hands etc., who really knows any longer?

:-)

Yes, it would be a complete nonsense. The status quo is now deeply rooted. The decision to move the Polish frontier westwards was a direct consequence of the WW2. The mistake, however, was to expell all the Germans over the Oder-Neisse river line. At the time, there were many of German people who were eager to remain in the now Polish Breslau knowing that the city would be Polish after 1945. Unfortunately, the realities of those times were so much different and the atrocities commited by Hitler's regime were so big that collective guilt was applied imminently to the entire German nation.

One should bear in mind that with the expulsion of almost the entire German population from Lower Silesia, the collective memory about the functioning of the industry, local agriculture, communication and other aspects of life was lost and the economic progress in the region was much slower as compared to other regions of Poland. There has recently appeared the Polish translation of the book being a careful study on this problem based on statistical data.


Precisely. Czechia was part of the HRE and even had its own elector who had the right to vote for a new emperor.

Several Emperors even lived in Prague.

Nothing "lost" about it! Rather winning the world! Whereas you still try to confine yourself between narrow borders....so yesteryear!

Most probably will the future Lusatians want to live and work in Germany anyhow...assimilating for more money, for a better life...

You really need to find your way into the modern world and stop re-fighting the old wars. The rules have changed!

This is certainly true for Polish people in general. 85k Polish people immigrated to Germany in 2017 alone.

thelocal.de/20180412/growth-in-germanys-foreign-population-driven-by-immigration-from-eastern-europe

you must admit that Russians knows. They hold Kaliningrad with clear conciseness. It was Slavic (ie Sarmatian) in deep past and it is Slavic today. They knows that territory marks domain of one civilization. Sure, influence, be it cultural, economic, whatever... are another aspects. Not to speak of strategic meaning, military importance, moral, etc.

So because Serbia was part of the Roman Empire , the Byzantine Empire and the Ottoman Empire (far longer than its' existence as an independent country), it should today be part of either Italy, Greece or Turkey?

Which ones were they?

No borders no country. Maybe that's the game Merkel and her fellow autocrats play to speed up the genocide/replacement of European natives, but most people recognize borders. And thanks to merkels we can do this policies the free movement of schengen is threatened like never before. Even European politicians including Germany's interior minister are beginning to demand border control thanks to merkels burden.

Welfare needs borders, trade and people do not. But it's not easy to find a good compromise.

@Ziemowit

For example Charles IV, Rudolf II.

@Dirk


Funny how an ardent Trump fanboy accuses Merkel of being an autocrate. It is not Merkel who is getting along so well with Kim, Putin and Co.

Indeed it is unfortunate she is such a poor negotiator and something as simple as putin bringing his dog around her throws her off. Even the fish he sent to merkel went way over her head.

Merkel only sucks up to putin when she wants cheaper gas and oil for germany. That's why shes giving nord stream 2 a go so germany can be even more beholden to Russian oil. Good for Russia and putin

And I'm not accusing her of being an autocrat. I'm accusing her of committing seppuku on behalf of native Germans and taxpayers which then affects the rest of Europe. The timeline of her preciousness went from we must help refugees due to our history, to people.realizing the vast majority aren't legit refugees so she then exclaimed we can do this, Islam belongs in Germany and it'll enrich our culture, then Germans started not being so fond of migrants after a thousand women were groped on Nye and then as afd gains seats she then says other countries must take in their share of the BURDEN and admitting that no go zones are real

But Serbians and Serbia existed prior to formation of Roman, Byzantine or Turkish Empires. As separate people/nation Germans emerged from within Serbs (Slavs).

That is difference. Older civilization must be asked if peaceful compromise is desired.

Why do you think that archduke Ferdinand died? He didn`t ask Serbs. That`s why. Then, Europe that was aware of aggression and greed of Austria and of all molesting on Serbs, was stunned. But? But? How that? How that? How Serbians dare to want to live?

See? See?

Indeed it is unfortunate. Merkel only sucks up to putin when she wants cheaper gas and oil for germany. That's why shes giving nord stream 2 a go so germany can be even more beholden to Russian oil. Good for Russia and putin

Nord Stream is not her decision....Germany isn't an autocratic dictatorship, but a free market democracy, here the industry has the say. Even if she wanted to she couldn't stop it.

Is there anything going on in Europe you don't blame Merkel for?

Merkel is one in long line of lunatics in German politics. Idiot after idiot. I personally expect Germans to rebel against Germany and express desire to return to Slavdom.

Rofl that's rich. Except Merkel herself said nord stream is 'political


No but she sure doesn't mind cozying up to the same autocrats she claims to abhor when it suits her. If it wasn't for commander Trump people wouldn't even be questioning nord stream 2 today even though it's been in the works for years. Hopefully germany is sanctioned or even kicked out of NATO should they not meet the 2% and continue with nord stream. Indeed some congressmen are already discussing this.

thelocal.de/20180519/putin-and-merkel-defend-nord-stream-pipeline


No just the migrant crisis which has snowballed into numerous other problems such as a drastic increase in rapes, terrorism, financial burden, no go zones and a general degradation of

But in a way I should thank her. Thanks to her we can do this she's caused the eu to be divided more than ever and has allowed Poland to form stronger bonds with other v4 countries and those who also don't want to take in migrants.

Just for some background info:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord_Stream#Contractors

Even if she had the political power to call it off (which she doesnt, as Nord Stream never was a governmental project), it's not only russian and german companies involved, but french and dutch too, scandinavian also...it's a common western european project. They all expect their share of gas through this pipeline. Merkel doesn't rule over them.


Tell me again where is in Moscow as we speak to rub shoulders with Putin right now...and who called the Saudi King his "bestest bro", bowing to him in Riyadh, on his very first foreign trip ever. Which not led him to one of America's most important western allies, as it was tradition for so long, noooo, he had to honor the radical muslims in Saudi Arabia, the sewer of Bin Laden and 9/11 with his first trip.

So seriously, as a Trumpist I would think twice criticizing others regarding the treatment of autocrats and dictators!

Yes with germany as the distributor for the other countries. While Merkel obviously does not rule over them she absolutely has the power as chancellor to shut down the project citing security concerns. However Russia and putin are simultaneously friend and foe, partner and rival for Merkel as well as w European nato countries like.france. should a war ever break out

That's how germany got screwed over in ww2 - precarious access to gas and oil. That'd be like if Hitler was buying oil from Stalin while invading Soviet union or Soviet union invading germany. Guess they didn't learn their lesson... key commodities especially oil should not be imported from states that are seen as adversaries. France too complains about election meddling but has no issue with buying oil from Russia from which revenues will undoubtedly make their way to the gru and state hackers. They're literally funding the russian hacking campaigns theyre getting their panties in a twist about rofl.

Not Poland though. That's why they're now diversifying. It's a matter of principle, self respect and security not to buy such a crucial resource from an adversary and allowing them to hang that over our head. But germany and France are too cucked so they don't really care.


I don't criticize autocrats and dictators, rather I point out the hypocrisy of Merkel and Macron supposedly being all pro democracy, human rights and against autocrats, authoritarianism etc except they'll criticize putin for hacking and human rights and all the other b.s. while still seeking his partnership for a pipeline.

I like putin and respect him since he has more balls than any other leader on the planet. Obran Erdogan dutuerte and trump are legit too. It takes a strong person to lead a nation that wants respect on the world stage - not some soy boy like trudaeu who's better off managing gay pride parades than leading Canada. Putin has managed to bluff his way with a pair of deuces to become the key power broker in Syria and now even has w Europe by the balls via oil. His country has a gdp equal to texas yet no one ***** with putin or russia - even all of nato is scared of him. That dude is a master machiavellian. I mean putin is getting the French and others to pay for Russia's cyber war, election meddling, espionage etc against them lolololol. Dudes a total boss. As much as I like Trump (aside from his Zionist ass kissing) he's no match for putin.

Which security concerns? The only time the delivery was stopped had been due pipeline transit countries, in this case Ukraine. In 2009 Ukraine tried to take the western countries hostage as it didn't want to pay it's debts to Russia, hoping Russia will cave in and rather keep the gas flowing to Germany etc. (and to Ukraine too necessarily) ...but Russia called their bluff and stopped the delivery.

That was an ice cold gas security scare western Europe reacted to with Nord Stream 1...


I dunno...Germany paying for their russian gas instead of invading Russia and trying to steal it is a lesson well learnt, don't you think?


All countries are diversifying, the smarter ones invest in renewables, to become independent from Russians and Arabs as soon as possible!
Germany is leading here, over 30% already and rising...compared to 20% gas.

Poland is still investing in coal though...and now in LNG, just exchanging one dependency (Russia) for another (US).


Welcome in the real world...


There won't. That's what the EU is for...


May I ask what "having balls" means to you?
Please avoid excessive quoting

I find it so ironic that a person who criticizes putin amd russia for being autocratic is now defending merkels purchasing of gas from that very person/country and hence enriching that same autocratic leader and country you'd otherwise criticize. Just like merkel... you're willing to forget the autocratic tendencies, subversion of elections, hacking, hybrid wars, human rights violations etc for cheaper oil. Atleast you, merkel macron etc could be consistent and either stand up for your criticisms of an autocratic individual and the nation they rule instead of filling their coffers so they can keep launching cyber attacks, keep the low intensity conflicts simmering, keep meddling in elections etc. As long as you get cheap oil...


No because in both cases they are still procuring one of the most important and sensitive resources from a country that is supposedly an adversary. Only difference is matter of procurement. And in fact Hitler's method of just stealing the oil makes far more sense as only a fool would willingly build pipelines so that their adversary can continue to regularly receive tens of billions - all while giving total control of the spigot to the adversary.


You really have to ask? Oil is probably the most important raw material for a country and is totally crucial in a war. Russia could shut off gas to germany and hence all other w European countries should their be a conflict or jack up their rates like crazy for any reason or no reason at all. Then germany would be sol. And with this pipeline they're totally captive to Russia and putin. Thank goodness Poland hasn't fallen for this lunacy. Atleast we poles have some self respect and don't build pipelines to our adversaries and give them billions which they then use to launch hybrid wars, subversion tactics, cyber attacks, etc with. It's better to pay a little more than have arguably one of the most important raw.materials coming from your main adversary.

Thatd be like Israels Netanyahu and Iran's ayatollah going on tv and proclaiming they're building a pipeline from Iran to Israel all while remaining adversaries. Which actually they have such a pipeline but they don't talk about it because the Israelis realize how stupid this makes them look running pipelines and buying oil from their biggest adversary. It's an israeli state secret that basically has a ban on discussing it.


Defending your country, putting your citizens and taxpayers first - and not able bodied economic migrants looking for a handout, not being A giant pussy that's too scared to say something because it might offend a few snowflakes, just generally not being A soy boy beta cuck. Being the opposite of antifa members, justin trudaeu, Macron or prince harry who married high mileage ho' s, basically being a man - a real man not the soy boy excuses for men who require safe spaces, trigger warnings and get offended at every little thing, men who stand up for their beliefs - Bog Honor Ojczyzna for example, don't make apologies for being normal hetero people, being athletic and olding your own in a fight like putin who's a judo black belt, making money to provide for your family, making your woman's toes curl and willing to give your life for your beliefs and loved ones. That's what a real man is about and quite sadly there's less and less real men and more and more beta soy boys. It's a great time to be a sexy confident woman that's for sure. Men have become such giant pussies that even the average 20 30 year old.western man's testosterone counts are equal to 80 years old. Such men could never be strong leaders - they don't habe the testosterone to be a man much less a leader.