Poles and Russians -- love-hate relationship?

You will find most answers here:
Poles and Russians

Poles love freedom while Russian are used to being servants of their rulers rather than citizens.

I honestly think most poles are jealous of Russia and its many peoples

in the end we are all slavic

In individual level they get along quite well.I have never seen any friction between Russians and Poles while there is friction between Poles and Germans.

Meaning: loving at a distance?

Potentially Poland and Ukraine could find alternative sources to Russian gas completely.
There is huge reserves of coalbed methane and shale gas in both Poland and Ukraine,biogas could be produced in large quantities.Gas power plants could be replaces with some Thorium power plants.

Recently some major oil company started production of shale gas in Ukraine.So this is mostly queston of time.


I`m interesting where this love for a freedom in Poles came from.Some ancient Western European hitorian wrote that there is no country in the world (during his time) where feudals would be so cruel to pesants as in Poland.

Polish serfs received freedom later then Russians did.Probably it partially explains it...

From loosing it obviously...:


Ignacy Krasicki, "Praszki w klatce"


Translation by
Christopher Kasparek
en.wikisource.org/wiki/Fables_and_Parables#Birds_in_a_Cage



:)

How is the mutual love manifested in this love-hate relationship?


Do you want the Russian Federation to collapse as the SU under the liberal Gorbi regime did?

I think, the first, who would secede from the Federation in the first month of democracy, would be, of course, the Chechens. The second, their brothers, the Ingushens. The third - the Kazan Tartars (6 million strong nation, dreaming all the time about re-gaining their lost statehood) etc.

By drinking vodka together xD

It is kind of a thing of a past. For example Russians loved Anna German Poles loved Władimir Wysocki...
Currently Russian artists are unknown in Poland, and of course even more Polish artists are unknown in Russia...

so only distate towards another version of tzar remained... that thing kind of don't want to let go...

How often do you take part in such manifestations?

I don't, I've never had an opportunity to do so ;)

There is some well known Polish artists who lived and performed in Russia. For example Edita Piekha and Barbara Brylska.

I'd say it's a love and hate relationship. :) We love Russia and we detest her. We look down at Russia and yet we can't quite help admiring her. This kind of relationship, it's pretty toxic and addictive. I don't know how the Russians view it though

What a pity!!! Also, because I was just going to ask about the units of measuring the strength of love during/after such sessions (?) (cracked bottles, glasses?)

Yeah, that what I meant, it is all the past

I think he does (if i may join your dialogue), because Alexander Suvorov was the commander of the Russian Army that crashed the Polish uprising led by Kosciuszko which brought about the 3rd partition of Poland among Russia, Prussia and Austria.

Being a Pole with some Russian let's say 'blood' on my mother's side, I'm glad that there are still people who think like me.

Too generous estimate I think. Population of Kazan is a shade more than a million with yet a majority of the Russians. Nationalistic message among the contemporary Tatars is a way too weak, many are mixed with the Russians and rather adhere to nationalistic stance of the Russians than the other way round.

Although separation of the Southern Caucasus is a very likely thing to happen in case of more or less liberal movements. There's currently no reason to keep it but for the sake of sustaining putin's regime.

Let us be realistic. Today`s Russia`s best interest is strong Poland and then creation of some new Commonwealth around Poland. On the other side, such a new Commonwealth should declare its military neutrality on any global military alliance.

that's not being realistic, it's what you want it to be ;-)

no, i am sure that we speak of authentic best Russia`s interest. That if Russia represent independent country, if Russia herself is strong enough. But, if that`s not the case, then Russia needs to balance her interests with her partners from western Europe (and USA) and Poland regularly paid it throughout history.

Ironically, now Poles needs to hope that is Russia strong enough.

Russia never cared about Poland and the other way around. You wanna see friendship where there's none ;-) (btw. never was)

i didn`t say that Russia care for Poland. i don`t talk about that. There are only interests in politics. We Slavs may feel mutual solidarity among us (speaking of great majority of Slavic masses in all Slavic countries) but, it is fact that we live in different states and those states have different governments and due to it (and other factors)- sometimes, different interests.

i would explain on the example of Serbia. Fact is that Russia have interest that Serbia exist and consolidate as strong country.

First, it is so because Russia concluded throughout history that Russia can`t control Serbia/Serbs. If our states have friendly relations, considering common Slavic background, Russia knows that can count on Serbia not to be against Russia. At least that. Its ok considering that we Serbians expect same from Russia. So, today`s Serbia declared its military neutrality on global military alliances.

Second reason why Russia needs strong Serbia is due to Russia`s necessity (for her own interests) to secure this region from uncontrollably presents of the Germany and Turkey, with it to secure approach to her borders from this side. In this, Serbian and Russian interests again overlap. Germany and Turkey are regularly hostile on Serbia.

See, why Poland and Russia wouldn`t organize their relations by same principles? Russia knows that Russia can`t control Poland. Russians learned it. Also, while Poland exist (and on the long run can exist only if strong), Germany don`t have direct access to the Russian borders from that side. See? Same situation as it is with Serbia just different geographical location.

Then, how would situation develop, in the eyes of Russia, if we have strong Serbia and strong Poland. Naturally, Poland and Serbia would turn to each others as they always did in history when they wanted more power. More power for Poland and Serbia means increased security for Russian western borders. As long as we respect our neutrality on global military alliances we would continue to have Russian support for strengthening of Poland and Serbia.

Same what i said for Serbia and Poland, goes also for Ukraine, Czech Republic, Slovakia, etc, etc. So, in one moment situation may develop in creation of the new Commonwealth. This is exactly what happening in this historical moment, now.

How do you want to be realistic then?

Now if we go back to Poland's role for Russia in the light of simple partnership, then Russia needs a strong and reliable e.g. trade partner anyway be it Poland or any other country that's willing to carry on trade. Military, Russia has always been in need of strong (and obedient) Poland as a client state, sort of an airbag against potential Western Aggression.

Now that the military means has changed drastically, client state strategy doesn't work any more and Russia will continue to fall apart until find a solid economical solution to stop this.

ok


Sasha are you aware of mega trends? Did you noticed that today`s Russia by helping to Serbia, demonstrate her interests for strong Serbia. Now, strong Serbia (weak even less) can`t be controlled by Russia. You know, we Serbians have bigger plans then just to vegetate. We already (and on the contrary to you, official Russia seam aware of it and agree with it), rising our head and our eyes search for Poland. Our hands are offered to Poland. Its our vital interest. There is old, i would even say ancient order of things. Something Sarmatian.

Both, Poland and Serbia would seek for more power, for simple reason- to reduce their dependance of foreign factors. We are to each others, natural partners. On the other side, same as Russia has interest that Poland and Serbia exist (and in our time may exist only if strong), Poland and Serbia would have interest that Russia exist. Let Russia deal with Chinese and we would deal with west of Europe. Its honest deal. Let`s not commit suicide and stab each others in the back.


Exactly. Best solution for today`s Russia is to allow strengthening of Poland and Serbia and with time to support creation of new Commonwealth if things move in that direction.

Borders of the new Commonwealth should be understand as technical details from the Russian side, as well as Russian investment in her interests.


well, say what exactly you didn`t understood.

WHERE IS SOUTHERN?:(
Hi Crow, Hi Sasha :))

Hello my Lady

Yes, Southern is good for relaxation. Suppose he would come to party

I missed you all :) Ok, most of you. But, to be honest my soulmate here was southern. Lol :)
Zdravo, Vrano :)))
Bilo je tragièno prvih par meseci, diamika foruma se toliko izmenila tvojim banom, da je naš Grk èekao najpre, pa odustao posle x godina od foruma. Pojavljuje li se on nekada?

Hey Natasa! It is good to see you again. This forum needs Slavic intellectuals. It is too dominated by uneducated British racists.