Poles in the Napoleonic era

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Since the Teutonic Knights murdered the original Prussians who became extinct and the remnants were assimilated by Germans, Poles, and Lithuanians you are literally correct.

The virtuous Prussians probably were Polish............

...on invitation of the polish crown you mean?


Lot's of Prussians have polish roots! :)

after they became German???

....after they became prussian subjects! Nobody took away their polishness...

ok, give sources and even better examples :)

How about a time witness report?

query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F30C10FB3A5414728DDDAE0994D8415B818CF1D3

- growing prosperity of the Poles

- growing and expanding of the polish middle class

- polish papers

- polish nationalism organizing

- growing influence of Poles in Prussia to cause anxiety in Berlin

Tell me again how "horrible" Prussia had been to the Poles! Oppression and brutal germanizing looks different...

It is quite interesting to read in more detail what Frederic said in his decree: He names the following Kreises:
Breslau / Wrocław [---nieder---]
Brieg / Brzeg [---nieder---]
Falkenberg / Niemodlin [++ober++]
Ohlau / Oława [---nieder---]
Grottkau / Grodków [---nieder---]
Neisse / Nysa [---nieder---]
Neumarkt / Środa Śląska [---nieder---]
Trebnitz / Trzebnica [---nieder---]
Oels / Oleśnica [---nieder---]
Namslau / Namysłów [++ober++]
Kreuzburg / Kluczbork [++ober++]
Gross Wartenberg / Sycow [---nieder---]
[---nieder---] for Lower Silesia; [++ober++] for Upper Silesia

as those in which heads of the Kreises should eradicate Polish teachers if they do not command the German language within one year from the publishing of his decree in those towns, villages or areas where the king's subjects can speak only Polish. As the king's list names predominantely the Lower Silesian Kreises, this would inevitably mean that large parts of Lower Silesia were inhabited by people who were not able to speak any German at all.

It is worth noting that the king's decree doesn't name Oppeln/Opole or other Kreises west of this town as if he did not intend any "germanization" of the areas nearer to the western border of Upper Silesia and thus the eastern border of Poland which surely existed in 1764. Can anyone comment on that particular "silence" of Frederic the Great on these areas?

More like that the language of the majority was now made official language for all subjects to speak...

A country who pushes the official language of said country...not exactly rocket science!

because it was agaist what Berlin wished for simply (Polish editor arrested; his fellow publisher searched and political materials confiscated;

'The Polish agitation, the growing prosperity and influence of Polish middle classes and the expansion of Poles in Prussia,..., all continue to cause anxiety' - read about Hakata and Prussian/German colonization policies in Wielkopolska and then you will surely know why growing prosperity of Poles there caused anxiety in Berlin -

also read this - de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micha%C5%82_Drzyma%C5%82a

Hmm... let me think. Thousands and thousands of Silesians fled to other countries during the Habsburg rule since their faith was surpressed (by force!). During Prussian rule thousands of Poles and Czechs settled in Silesia.

Looks like faith was much more of an issue than language in pre-nationalistic times.

Hmm...let me see how Poland reacted to nationalistic dreams of it's minorities?

And what's the difference to any country concerning it's minorities? May I remind you about the venom spit at the joke of the modern silesian organization for more autonomy???

But still no Gulags or just a bullet in the head for polish nationalists in Prussia...nope...they even could gather and have their own media...HOW HORRIBLE!

The main point is that Prussia never intended to destroy the polishness of their polish minority, they had only to follow the rules which were set for ALL prussians, not more, not less...


The point you so surely want to avoid is that there was an growing prosperity of Poles under prussian rule!
Tell me again about the mean anti-polish rule of the bastard Prussians!!!

Prussia was not perfect but it was a good, advanced country...even to it's minorities..
And most Poles had a good life...but of course, the nationalists wanted their own Poland, for them Prussia was the enemy to be fighted, regardless how good Prussia was for the Poles.

jstor.org/pss/1875674

....then how come that the Poles prospered and grew and expanded Gumishu?

Prussia must really have sucked with their anti-Poles policy! ;

Sorry...all political propaganda can't deny the facts. Poles lived well in Prussia, definitely better than under
Habsburg or Russian rule.

But the polish nationalists needed a common enemy to rally and organize against, in that case it was Prussia.
A lot of that old garbage is still in the books and in the minds.

Because Poles being economically active benefited Germans?


Wielkopolska was still one of the poorer regions in Prussia. Poland under Russia was one of the richest parts of Russia. By your logic, Poles were tzar's favorite and most cherished nation.

Richer than Prussia???

Rich in what?

These districts in Lower Silesia were mostly close to Upper Silesia or the Polish border and hosted Polish linguistic enclaves. That's nothing new. But even there Poles were a minority. Only in some villages they formed a majority.

1. what political propaganda? - this is an excerpt of a scientific (historical) paper and not even by anybody Polish (guessing by the name)

2. I don't deny that Poles in Prussia were better-off than those in Russian and Austrian partition - it was firstly due to early abolishment of serfdom (1807?) and introduction of liberal constitution of 1848 (with political parties and so forth) - that allowed Poles to organize themselves (forming cooperatives, various societies and the like) - but the pressure on Poles grew then significantly (from 1871)

It was a no-win situation...it was the time as nationalism run rampant and minorities had a hard stand in every country.

How long can a country deny a sizable minority in it's borders their independence they so much wish for.
No country is quick with giving people and land away easily...of course they clamp down on the resistance.
But it is no good for the country and the society...lot's of examples for that.

Not giving Śląsk authonomy is mostly due to the fact that of the region's 4 millions inhabitants only 200k or so identify themselves as Silesians. I imagine not giving them minority status is of financial reasons (basically Polish governement doesn't want to give money for opening Silesian schools or cultivating cultural activities), similar to how 2 million or so Poles in Germany today don't have a minority status.


Rich as in economically better than the rest of Russia. Basically what I'm saying it was in neither occupants own interes to limit's Poland's economy potential as both those countries benefited from it.

It's about the principle...I can't see any enthusiasm or free support for a growing wish for silesian autonomy...quite the contrary, understandably.

Not to forget that the ethnic cleansing of Germans was all about that question, cementing polish rule in Silesia...


They don't have minority status because they are not eligible for it. The Poles in Germany are immigrants, mostly for economical reasons.
The Germans in Silesia are native to Silesia and the borders were changed over their heads.


That was not that hard but no partition was as economically well off and supported than the prussian part!

it's very similar to the situation of Sorbs - why does not Germany give Sorbs autonomy - because even where they live they are minority - the same here


I am not that sure in the end - like I said - the pressure on polishness grew in time

Sorbs have big minority rights in Germany, the same as the danish minority in Schleswig-Holstein.
And there is no movement for independence (as far as I know).

had Kaczyński not grieved that RAŚ is a representative of German interests (it is funded partially by some German organizations) even most people in Upper Silesia would never have heard of it - Kaczyński is a lousy politician but MANY Poles don't have anything better to vote for (including myself)

Uuuuaaaaargh

*runs*

;)

You don't give autonomy to a region because it has a 4% minority that wants that autonomy. That's absurd and no principle can change it.


Again, it was for Prussia's/Germany's own good. Oppression would lead to frequent uprisings, which are an expensive internal war.

Silesia was 2/3 german for centuries...didn't stop Poles from demanding to be "freed" and annexed by Poland.


Sure it was....hence the flourishing of the Poles in Prussia.

different times - don't compare current European politics to even that 50 years ago

Well....you are measuring everything Prussia did during the last centuries with today standards about minority rights too, don't you...

I feel like we discussed it somewhere already.

Maybe because it's one set of rights for Poles but another one for Germans...I like to point out this double standard whenever I can! :)