Is there a Western/Eastern divide in Poland like the Northern/Southern divide in Italy?

They had a name for us Untermensch.

That's correct. But:

1. That was in Middle Ages. Germans (and other folks in the west) took over the knowledge and civilization (actually a part of it, more so they simply destroyed) from the Romans, while Slavs were building up their countries from zero.

2. The folks that were "invited" to bring know how and so on were craftsmen, clergy, traders and so on, not German peasants who were the bulk of the nation back then as anywhere else and couldn't "bring" anything really.


They aren't really "Germanized", they are "westernized" If anything.


You seem to be too much into stereotypes and some kind of biological/cultural "racism".

I remember when in 90's in Poland you could see a lot of trash and dog crap on the sidewalks, the green areas were neglected and so on. Now they same areas looks far better in most cases. Why ? Because back then local admin had not enough money to care about such things. People drop trash everywhere, the difference is that in some places it will be cleaned within hours and elsewhere will stay there till it gets rotten. It has much more to do with financial prosperity than with "cultural traits".

Generally it's much more a matter of the centre vs peripheries than cultural differences. If you are close to the more advanced/rich areas, you will "receive" some progress from them (hence Czechs or Slovenia) and why those areas are rich and advanced... well, it depends but often it goes centuries or even thousands of years back. For instance, If Germanic tribes moved to Mongolia, instead of Central/Western Europe, I'm fairly sure they wouldn't have built much over there.


Yes that's true. But there are many other factors involved. Otherwise you would have to conclude that people from Dubai are "culturally superior" to people from Argentina, China, Canada or even... your beloved Germanics :)))


That's correct of course but how could it be different If you include the history of those lands ?

Medieval Civilization (at least in Western Europe) is based on a mixture of both Germanic and Roman traditions. It is an entire copy of the old Roman traditions. That was in the Middle Ages, yeah, but so far no country has surpassed them or reached concerning most measures of human progress, except maybe for some East Asian nations, which applied many concepts from Europe. Why merely create a great idea (like Ancient Greece did) if you don't apply it in the end?


If only those were invited to settle Eastern Europe, then there wouldn't be entire cities and villages populated by Germans. They were not there only for trades. They were also called for defense against invaders and they did bring agricultural techniques to those lands. One needed many people back then.


I prefered the word "Germanized" because not only is it the implied form in some works on culture, but also channel through which Westernization reached them. "West" is too broad, as it includes many cultures like those of Celtic tribes and Latins, not to mention the cradle of Western Civilization, Greece, none of which are too similar to Germanic folks, despite some commonalities. But let's not mind the wording as long as we can get our message across.


This is not a post concerned about race. Anyone at any given moment can wake up and say "hey, I will start to do things better from now on". It is a matter of culture, upbringing, history.

Of course having money helps in that it provides a facade of good manners when behind it all there is a corrupt society. Many examples of such instances. One should place a bet on not the current situation of a nation, but on the cultural profile of that nation to know if it will eventually yield results. Since the times when most nations of earth were level in GDP per capita (PPP), many would praise Germans and other such peoples for their many qualities. Such things as hygiene, modes, education, values are strongly cultural.

The center x periphery theory is known, sure, but it doesn't explain the many exceptions. Finland neighbors Russia, for example, but they don't seem to have taken much of each other. Also, if we have a "center" and a "periphery", don't think those in the center were doing something right, as you yourself said, for thousands of years, to become a center? One doesn't become (steadily) rich out of nowhere. It is a longterm thing (unless of course you discover in your land there is something very precious and then you start making money out of that, instead of having to invest in a better population).


Canada is a British and French creation. Argentina and Chile are not by far more successful than the rest of Latin America. If anything, they are faring as great as Croatia, especially Argentina. In fact, back in the 20s Argentina used to be one of the best countries on Earth. Theirs is a history of constant decay due to corruption and mismanagement, not attaining the same stats as now the likes of Australia, Canada and the US do. Chile might be doing better now, but should I mention that many Spaniards who settled in Chile are of Basque descent?

Miguel de Unamuno once said: "There are at least two things that clearly can be attributed to the Basques: the Society of Jesus and the Republic of Chile."


Ok, including the history of those lands, how does that change the reasoning? The Mongol Invasion is the end-all-be-all why they lag behind Western Europe now?

@Guestuser
You should have been born a century ago to witness the 'greatness' of the Reich. You'd fit right with you're ideas of German superior.

@dolnoslask
Yes, our untermenschen families experienced that first hand.

What a lot of BS!
Medieval civilization was a bunch of primitive and **** poor warring gangs (if not for the CC) on a verge of civilized country such like Byzantium. That changed later. In fact all those preconceptions and points of view switched a few times over centuries.

For exmaple your Germanic world was a poor, divided and plagued by wars and sickness barbaric place where witches were burn on a stake all over the place while Poland had a prosperous thriving empire.

There are too many factors for your simplified homespun theories build in your backyard and full of the Internet wisdom to be anything but BS.

If anything western civilization build on Christianity and its values can be held responsible for many good things. Poland is and had been part of it, End of story.

kaprys, this is not good for the discussion I am trying to have. Seriously.


And yet something was fermenting in Florence, Amsterdam and Paris that brought us to where we are today.

As you said, that changed later. Who was doing it better for the long run? The Middle Ages did have their downs, but they knew how to overcome them. And let's not forget revisionism, where a lot is being discovered, that those people were not so primitive as they seem to be.

China and India used to be the centers of world. China gave Japan and Korea much of their civilization. And yet, what is China nowadays? Why to be proud of former glories if now the country mires in the mudpit?

There was some payback on a small scale, every time my father captured a Uebermensch (that was the job of his unit) he made sure they knew who it was that had caught them half asleep while on guard duty, boy did they squeal about the Geneva convention and the need to be handed over to British units, sadly their requests mainly fell on deaf ears.

There was Eastern Italy, too. This is about Slavic regions that were controlled by Venice and Italy >>> obviously Italians don`t give up >>>



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