Poland during the Renaissance

exactly,that part of leeds,you know the one, bagel shops every 3 shop fronts and M n S mini markets everywhere ...or North london.....not exactlly ghettos :)..........Distinct districts outside of city jurisdiction where people are forced to live rather than choose to live,well,they're ghettos.....I mean,theres got to be a reason why every tour guide calls K' the "old ghetto" as opposed to the nazi version over the river and not,the place where jewish people chose to live just by complete chance.....sure, by the 20th century no one was forcing anyone to live anywhere till the nazis came along but that changes nothing. Poland had plenty of genuine Ghettos prior to 1939/40

Well, I wouldn't say forced. Jews of old liked to keep together for a reason, to keep a eye on each other,and to be under supervision of their elders.

Jews were readmitted in 1655, and, by 1690, about 3,000 Jews had settled in England. HOLY F 3000 JEWS MAN!!!!!!! thats like 0.0001% of the jews living in Poland in those times.

And The jews got rights in Poland long before the 1650's.

Why did`nt your ancestors go to America then ?

At least one of them did,he's called John Paul Jones.....maybe google him..............oh,sorry,were you hoping I was a Jew,sorry to disapoint love,you'll need to find another excuse......

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Jones_(pirate)

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  250pxJohn_Paul_Jone.jpg
  

Well, wasn't he a traitor to his country ?

Kazimierz was never a ghetto. Not even during ww2. Check what's the definition of ghetto first and then read about Kazimierz.

No, he was an idealist who had lived in the colonies prior to the independence,he chose right over wrong......faced with the same choices I would hope Id do the same.


never said it was Bizi....but ah well, you try dont you. No,the Jews were forced over the river,as I said in my earlier post,into podgorze in early 42........but,sorry, K' was a ghetto.Thats why it was built.

Repeating this misinformation again doesn't make it a fact. Kazimierz was never a ghetto.

Such as the right to not live in Warsaw, because they were legally banned from living here.

Such as a right to live in peace and prosper in contrast to the rest of Europe.
You Harry should know better then ridicule that safe heaven for no other reason that your own amusement.

You seem to misunderstand the content of the decrees which I posted: Jews were forbidden from living in the city of Warsaw for almost all of the time that the city was the capital of pre-1918 Poland.

in 1910 38% of the total population of Warsaw was jewish.

Harry leave polish history alone.

Which part of "the time that the city was the capital of pre-1918 Poland" do you fail to understand? Was Warsaw in 1910 the capital of Poland?


If you learned about Polish history, I wouldn't have to tell you about it.

Does it matter? you told me jews where banned to live inside prewar warsaw, i proved you the opposite.

People vote with their feet - if there was such a bad conditions they would have left a long time before the XVIII century!
What about a reason of they immigrating to Poland in the first place? You seems to be bend on ridicule any good deeds in general.

There no such a thing as the Harry standard !

Read what I said: the time that the city was the capital of pre-1918 Poland. You told us about a time when the city was under Russian occupation and the Russians decided who could and couldn't live here.

Poland in its 1815-1867 form was a semi-autonomous state in personal union with Russia through the rule of the Russian Emperor. The polish capital was WARSAW OK? Poland didnt have the same rules as in the rest of Russia ok? And the jews were never forced to leave warsaw during the personal union with Russia.

No Pole sees that state as anything other than a Russian puppet state. Why do you think there were uprisings in 1830 and 1863?! Which part of "Russian emperor" are you failing to understand.

You're right that Jews werent made to leave Warsaw then, but Poles weren't making the rules then, were they?

Does it matter?


You finnaly understand something.


They were controled by the Russian Tsar. But they still enjoyed more liberties then the Russians.

Still Warsaw was the capital, until 1918. Read what you write, then you can try and be smart.


No they weren't, not by a long chalk. Russians needed space for Jews expelled from Russia by the chart of settlement, which was a prohibition of permanent settlement in Russia, except the Polish part.

In general, the deluge if ignorance in this thread is mind-blowing. I mean, foreigners are not necessarily supposed to know Polish history, but then, maybe, they should ask questions first, or do some easy reading, and shout out their opinions after. From what I've read here, I am completely lost. I don;t know if I'm supposed to be ashamed for Poland not having the colonies (no ambition), or by having them (the over million sq km of the neighbour's territory). All that I see here is 'shame on you, whatever'. Oh, maybe I mixed it up with the 'and proud of it' thread, but doesn't matter, really. Poles, the scum of Europe. Hitler should've done you before the Jews - remember that, Harry? I do.

The Renaissance Poland is something to admire, actually. Despite the fact that it was ruled by a Lithuanian dynasty. They got civilised quickly enough.

Yes, it was a golden age of Poland. Something to be proud of as a Pole. Probably that's why all those confused foreigners posting here are so eager to dismiss at any cost.

Harry is just doing his routine shtick of getting under Polish people's skins.

Golden age, and unparalleled in Europe. That's probably the reason for some sorry twats to dismiss it. Hard to imagine a country like that, for an average European, and hard to admit for the twats that they have never heard of it. 'Polish Empire just like any other'.

Are you seriously saying that the renaissance in Poland was "unparalleled in Europe"?

Well... how peaceful was Italy during the Renaissance? From what I know, the 'condotieri' word gives some clues

Peaceful doesn't come into it. The artistic, intellectual and cultural flowering there truly was unparalleled.

Oh, yes, it does. Very much so. Economy, beside art, was a crucial element.

Depends on the point of view. Poland was happy and strong enough to keep the enemies at bay by the sheer fact of being there. But if you prefer posh collections of paintings to families raising happy children free from danger of being slaughtered, then yes, Poland was a bit on the barbaric side then.

Which was far stronger in Italy diring that time. But hey, if you want to believe that, say, Vilnius was was a more dynamic place than Venice during the renaissance, nobody will stop you.

Not in my name. Or, indeed, that of the majority here who have chosen to stay quiet on the topic. It's not as if the debates I've seen were ever conducted in an inclusive manner ;)

Anyway, with you 100% on the Renaissance in Poland. Arguably the golden years were somewhat later (a century or so) but that depends how bound one is to the dead-white-males(-with-improbably-luxuriant-moustaches) take on historiography.

Welcome back. In case you hadn't noticed, Hal's been a bit up himself of late. Looking forward to a bit of balance.

Szaco, A