People the Soviets planted in Poland

Indeed. It never would have worked without the acceptance of the locals. We don't need to hold PhD's in history to realise that the whole thing depended upon the collaboration of the locals to hold it together at the basic level. Let's not forget who did the dirty work - it wasn't the Soviets in most cases, but the Poles themselves.

We don't even talk about people like Raymund Kaczynski who betrayed his own comrades to join the Communist cause. People like him were the real reason that Communism succeeded.

What do you base it on ?


You mean Poles think Russia is still a communist country ? I don't think so. It's more like going back to times of "white" Russia. The thing is Poland and pre-commie Russia were enemies for centuries, so It's not a simple: communist Russia = bad, non-communist Russia = good schem.


Fascinating. So you say Poles wanted post-WW2 Poland to become a communist country ?

History. It couldn't have worked if the population was entirely against it and refused to do the Soviets dirty work for them. How could it work, if society rejected it and refused to take part in it? Even the military law measures introduced in December 1981 didn't last long - they needed the population to cooperate willingly rather than by force.

Who "pacified" the miners?


Not the majority, but an element within Polish society certainly did. How big that element was is a matter of some debate, but just like in East Germany, it wasn't imposed unilaterally.

Don't forget that many people who were previously nothing (and had no hope of becoming anything) found themselves suddenly in power under Communism.

Of course there were Poles working for the Soviets. And... ?

No big deal. It's history, it's a fact and that is that.

Michnik's belonged to Stalin's Comintern but you somehow never mention that. Coincidence? Bias?

Kaczynski's belonged to Stalin's Comintern too, but you never mention that. Coincidence? Bias? Or just plain old shame at the fact that such an "anti-Communist" had a father that was rotten to the core?

no, it's not true

I've never seen any evidence to the contrary. His father's rise during Stalinism was - at best - questionable.

As usual, you got your wires crossed. Rajmund Kaczyński fought in the ZWZ (the AK's predecessor) and the AK inclduign the Warsaw Uprising. It was Michnik's dad, non-observant Jew Ozajsz Szechter, who was appointed by Stalin to head the Communist Party of the Westerm Ukraine (ie Soviet-annexed pre-war Poland), a bona fide member of the Comintern. The senior Kaczynski didn’t complete his engineering studies until 1947, but Stalin had dissolved the Comintern in 1943 to please the Western Allies. The Comintern was a subversive international organisation deisgned to infiltrate and spread the poison of Soviet-style communism world-wide.

Michnik also had a treasonous mum and bro. You never mention them either because you don't believe in collective guilt when it applies to your pet non-observants. But you'll gladly make an exceptions if the Kaczynskis can be smeared!

Polonius, nothing you say will change the fact that Kaczynski's father was a rotten, treasonous fellow who betayed his fellow men for the sake of a nice career in the PRL.

After all, Michnik is not trying to become Prime Minister, is he?

But there is no collective guilt, according to your line so far. Has the party line changed?
BTW what career, according to you, did Rajmund achieve in communist Poland? He wasn't ne of the Bermans, Fejgins, Romkowskis, Różańskis, Zambrowskis, Brystygiers, Michniks or other non-observants who killed and tortured patriotic Poles. Just an engineeer. No big deal!

can you explain what you mean by the phrase 'non-observant'?

I already have in describing Ozajsz Szechter...scroll up and you'll find it.

The worst kind, one obtained in collaboration with the authorities.


Just an engineer who was trusted to work on the American embassy. "Just". hahaha.

Oh Polonius, we all know that he was a filthy disgraceful traitor, you don't have to defend him :)

People have to eat and feed and clothe their families... Under duress, threat or various forms of blackmail you can get ordinary people to do most anything to protect their families and survive. Is that an indictment of the victims of a coercive system or of the evil repreressive system that has brutalised the enviroment?

Anyone who never lived in a totalitarian ciountry would not know what that means.

Making excuses for the traitor, are we?

The fact that he was trusted enough to install things in the American Embassy tells us all we need to know about what kind of man he was.

so


So why did you feel the need to mention someone's ethnicity? Do you think it is somehow relevant or significant?

have you any proof for that? And that Rajumnd was a member of PZPR?

It's a fact, and concealing facts is a lie, innit?

polonius - don't take it personally. Your adversaries are just doing their job. That's why they can stay on the internet all day and trot out the same old lies in the same old way, day after boring day. Kaczynski pere was a commie, the whole of Eastern Europe fell in love with Communism (just at the same time as millions of Soviet soldiers arrived), you're an anti-semite ... ad nauseam.

I occasionally share my posts with a mate or two and take guesses on what "the crew" is going to come up with in the next few posts.

Believe me, I do not take it personally, Sine people are so steeped in their cock-eyed PC pror-libtertine biases that one cannot expect anythnig more from them. The PC types have got their pet fringe minorities, but you'll never hear them say a word in defence of the 160,000 Christians killed each year precisely because they are Christiasn. Religous genocide does not bother them a bit. If it were 160 Jews, that might be a different story. And that is their idea of balance, impartiality, fairness and justice! At most one can can feel sorry for these pathetic, horse-blinkered souls.

He wasn't just a commie, he was the worst kind of Communist - a Stalinist betrayer.


160,000 killed every year only for being Christian? Source, please.


Your paranoia is endlessly amusing.

Perhaps Poland would be a better place if we murdered 160,000 Radio Maryja listeners every year. Then again, we'd probably run out of people to murder after the first year.

Entertaining the though of commiting mass murder in Poland is very Hitlerian.

o yessss! And he had horns and hooves and a tail. Oh, I forgot - he had also a red pitchfork...

The difference between Michnik and Kaczynski is that one of them attacks people who were favoured due to their parents being collaborating scum and the other says that nobody should be held to account for the sins of their parents.


It is hard to imagine how them departing would be much of a loss to Poland. For a start we'd certainly hear less of the bitter whining along the lines of 'Those people who are successful only got to be successful because they are Soviet plants!' But the process of doing away with them would most certainly be highly damaging for Poland, even though it would free up a fairly vast amount of tax money which could be invested in projects that will help Poland today and tomorrow as opposed to being wasted on people who can't get their minds out of yesterday.

Anyway, the listenership of Radio Maryja must be going down year after year as their older listeners die off (due to natural causes) and are not replaced by younger listeners (for fairly obvious reasons).


It is strange how the IPN appear to have not even a single piece of paper about Kaczynski the elder being a collaborator or about Kaczynski the younger's sexuality, isn't it?


Love it.

True, mass murder is never particularly good for international relations regardless of how much it improves your country in the long run.


It is very strange, isn't it? You would think that his homosexuality would have been remarked upon, particularly as potential blackmail material against his brother's opposition activities.

Most odd. Even if we go with the explanation put forward by PiS (i.e. he has never been interested in anybody from either sex), it is inconceivable that such lack of interest in women would have not been noticed by the network of informers and at some point commented on by some secret police officer in some document. Given that the usual explanation for a man having no interest at all in women is that he's gay and that the secret homosexuality of their brother would be an excellent tool to apply pressure on an opposition figure, it is almost impossible to understand why there is no record of the SB checking him out.

I say "almost", because there are three possible explanations: one would be that the IPN selectively attacks people who have drawn the ire of the right-wing (the name General Zbigniew Scibor-Rylski sort of springs to mind); another would be that the IPN's records have been scrubbed and so are pretty much useless; and the final one would be that the IPN's records say nothing about JK because all mentions of him were removed before the end of communism (which would sort of suggest that he's a Soviet plant himself). Given that our right-wing friends insist that the IPN is utterly impartial and has complete records (apart from the bits about Walesa), would they agree that if one agrees both those statements are true that JK, as shown above, could conceivably himself be a Soviet plant? (Please note that I'd go with a different explanation myself).

It is not entirely beyond the realms of possibility - his brother was imprisoned and then released very quickly after all. And his father was a loyal Party man who must have had some connections in Moscow, so - well - would it really be inconceivable that JK was blackmailed into operating as a spy?