Poland and Muslims (Tatars and others).

Exactly... I just hope that the people writing their "no acceptance of Islam in Poland" comments are not Christians. They simply cannot be...

Yes we are, but compassion doesn't mean that we must be naive. Not only we have a heart, we also have eyes and everybody saw the problems that Muslim immigration caused in Western Europe and we don't want to see the same happen in Poland.

Only problem with your "exactly" is that mohammed was a blood thirsty peodo, Christ was not, mohammed's followers are just like mohammed. Maybe Mahatmacoat would have said, I dont like your mohammed and I dont like his followers.

Anyway, Poland doesnt have a problem with Islam yet, but you have to admit, after the beheading of a Polish engineer (nicely video'd) they may have changed their mind about these peace loving people.

Well, there is a difference between what you see on TV, and what the reality is. People who call themselves Muslims and make it to TV are usually fundamentalists. After all, why would you put on a program portraying Muslims as peaceful, family loving people? What's interesting about that?

There are numerous cultural differences between Muslim and Christian worlds, and that's why whoever decided to cross these differences, needs to adjust. I am not advocating unconditional acceptance of all behaviors. What I am trying to convey is that we cannot equate Islam and its followers with terrorism and abuse. There are Muslims coming to Poland who work hard, and who contribute to the society as much as others do. I don't see any reason as to why they should be "banned" from Poland. Should they try to impose their ideologies on others, only then I see it becoming an issue.

But claiming that


is blatantly hate-filled. Or perhaps we can go back to the communist times and review some of the claims communists made to protect their states from the West... I have a feeling that the degree of absurdity would be very similar.

If anybody wants to use such claims as arguments and then claim himself to be either an examplary Christian or a Polish citizen, then both Christianity and Poland are in real trouble.

I absolutely agree with you. Unfortunately there are some people in this forum who are trying to heal their inferiority complex by attacking everything other than they are familiar.

Luckily Polish people I've met in my daily life so far very open minded and open to understand different opinions unlike some fools in this forum.

Hey, I know, when I'm on one of my rants, it may come off as a little "over the top". But this is actually how I feel. The pride norwegians are allowed to show is if our national team wins a game or if we celebrate our national day. But the rest of the year, being norwegian means being born racist and having to make up for it. Feeling guilty. That you haven't met any Norwegians that feel like I described I believe is because you haven't really asked them. And remember, Norwegians have been taught that it's bad to be proud of their nation, that it's racist. (Aside from sports and the national day of independence). They will not admit to having these feelings to strangers. But give them a beer or two, you'll be surprised what comes out.

Just yesterday I heard on the radio that there was another riot in Sweden, in Rosengård. And the last week it was one in Denmark, in Nørrebro, and the week before another one in Paris. About the heritage, this will be true. Just look at the kids today, the way they clothe, the music they listen to, the way they speak. I know, it's a generation thing, and I was the same back in the day with long hair, army boots and all that. But the demographics are changing and in the big cities, being Norwegian is not "cool", being pakistani is cool, being foreign is cool, it's hip, all the posters show hip and laughing immigrant kids. Norwegian kids are boring and portrayed as of little interest. So they try to be like the posters and the rappers on TV. Norwegian girls are encouraged to be with cool immirgrant boys or men, but haven't been told the consequenses that will come with it. We have had big debates here in the newspapers about our independence day and letting women with burkas waive their muslim flags and talk at our ceremonies! At OUR NATIONAL DAY! One of the women who spoke once said, "When I look in baby carriages here today, I see the future of Norway, I see immigrant children"! And people actually clapped. I was at a school where the principals most important thing in her speech was to acknowledge how many different nationalities there were at her school. Not WHY we celebrate the 17th of May and our independence.

Since you live in Sweden I have this for you:

Mona Sahlin, political party leader of the social democrats says to turkish people in Sweden that celebrating swedish heritage and culture is stupid and that immigrants have much cooler celebrations:

bgf.nu/svenskt/midsommar.html

Here is an article about swedish girls who have to colour their hair dark not to be harassed by the immigrants in their city:

aftenposten.no/nyheter/uriks/article1077398.ece

Again, this is only a FRACTION of the stories out there. So, yes it might be a little overwhelming sometimes when I blurt out some sentences, but I actually have the facts to back it up.

About muslims in Poland, which this thread is actually about, thank god there are only a couple of thousand of them. I do not want Katowice to end up like one of the cities in Norway where there no-go zones for ethnic poles or where gangs hang out in parks selling drugs to minors or rape women on their way back from work or a restaurant.

Dariusz

p.s. The only reason we are voted as the best country in the world is because of the oil. If the oil wasn't here, all our schools, hospitals, workplaces, roads and everything else would be much less developed. If there's a problem, throw some money on it. That's the norwegian way. Poland doesn't have that, thank god. Because that means that they will not import hordes of soon to be unemployed, sickly, criminal muslims. And if anything develops, it develops the hard way and letting things adjust until they work. In Norway everybody holds hands and sings Kum-Ba-Ya my lord.


Well well, thank you for stepping inside my trap...

Here are some links to your favourite restaurants:

"A magistrates' court heard the catalogue of horrors at Pappu Sweet Centre and Catering in Wolverhampton, West Midlands, also included:

FLIES, RATS including one DEAD under a pan, FILTH, MOULDY FOOD - and staff dropping cigarette ends and SPITTING on the floor.

Refrigerators were running at more than 68°F (20°C). Singh, 45, was banned from working with food again after he admitted 12 hygiene and pest control offences."

thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article1808521.ece

Rat-infested Kebab shops:

greenshield.com/Kebab-shop-closed-after-rat-infestation-192 00310.gs

Kebab shops shut down due to health risks:

rbwm.gov.uk/web/news_4209_kebab_shop_operators_sentenced.htm

Salmonella found in kebab shop:

news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/London-Kebab-Shop-Shut-Over-Salmonella-Outbreak-Shahi-Nan-Kabab-Staff-Cooperate-With-Investigation/ Article/200909415387205?f=rss

Dead body used as kebabmeat:

democracyforum.co.uk/talk-about-anything/68232-body-sold-russia-kebab-shop-bbc-news.html

Cockroaches found in kebabstore:

encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-173003394.html

Police found hundreds of pounds of rotten meat in the basement of Kebab shop in Oslo:

vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/artikkel.php?artid=184044

Rats, cockroaches and rotten meat in Norway; 15 out 19 kebabshops closed immidiately, the rest had to improve:

oslopuls.aftenposten.no/restaurant_uteliv/article235447.ece

Town in Oslo closed three immigrant restaurants in one night, all had health code violations:

rogalandsavis.no/nyheter/article4501387.ece

Sold Kebab while remodelling restaurant, dust and toxins in meat:

nrk.no/nyheter/distrikt/ostlandssendingen/1.4884871

Is that not enough for you? I can give you a hundred more!

Harrassment of ethnic european girls by muslims:

Swedish girls suffer widespread harassment: report:

thelocal.se/22184/20090920/

Muslim rape wave in Sweden:

97.74.65.51/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=6251

Rape and harrassment "normal" in muslim society:

jrbooksonline.com/cwporter/mosrape.htm

Scandinavian girls harrassed and threatened by muslims:

blog.vdare.com/archives/2006/08/01/scandinavian-women-and-girls-threatened-by-muslim-immigrants/

Norway has a "wave" of rapes of norwegian girls my muslims:

globalpolitician.com/22612-norway

100% of all rapes in Oslo last three years have been by immigrants (YES A HUNDRED PERCENT):

demokraten.no/lokalnytt/article4264620.ece

And on and on and on....and this was only from two-three countries. AND YOU CALL ME A HATER? Because I don't want this to happen in Poland?? Do you want this in Poland? Then you are the hater!

Dariusz

When those radicals start talking about domination, they can forget any credibility or respect. In the West, we are often not happy with what our leaders do but we don't resort to jihadist ways.

Those kebob stores don't sound very kosher. Definitely not run by real muslims. Sounds like someone's unwanted list has migrated to Norway.

Raping Norwegian women? Well, it sure beats sending them off to the brothels of Israel I guess.

Sounds like the norwegians need a dialogue with their new muslim community. And an education system to work with them. There are lots of muslims in the USA and we have not seen any of these problems.

Oooh. What a response Des Esseintes. But you know, if you read some of the links I posted above..if you ate a kebab, there is a big chance that you actually got some kind of ratshit, sperm, asbestos, cockroaches, human feces, HUMAN PARTS, rotten meat, salmonella or any other ingridient you really shouldn't have in your food. But wait, it's ME, Dariusz, the HATER, who is the idiot for POINTING THIS OUT TO YOU. I'm sorry, of course, just go get your kebab Des Esseintes, bon appetit! (Don't worry if you get a little sick later, it's probably the flu).

Dariusz

p.s. about poland not being islamophobic..just wait. Besides I would call it, islam-critical, or islam-concious. Phobic is not the right word. You on the other hand are the one with the phobia here. Against sane and intelligent critisism of the "holy people of the prophet".

in other words we can say `Poland and EU` or to say `Poland and Eurabia`. Its the antagonism that rising

Hej ;-) Although I generally agree with your analysis of Muslim immigration, I think you should refrain from posting things like that about kebab. In all European countries, food served in shops or restaurants is submitted to occasional inspections by local or national authorities. If such problems sometimes arise (like having pieces of cat in your Chinese dish, or meat used past the preservation date independently from the recipe's nationality), it is far from being the general rule.

Oh, I don't know about that:

A man was arrested in Greeley early this morning just hours after a recent arrival to Fort Morgan was stabbed to death in front of her apartment house.

The woman, in her early 20s, is one of approximately 600 African refugees including Kenyans, Somalis and Nigerians living in the northeastern Colorado community, said Fort Morgan Police Chief Keith Kuretich.

It is the first homicide in Fort Morgan since Oct. 28, 2006.

samotalis.blogspot.com/2009/11/usa-somali-man-arrested-for-kill ing.html

Ali was one of seven Minneapolis-area Somali men killed over a 10-month period, and authorities believe all were killed by fellow Somalis. Police say it's too simple to tie all the killings to Somali gangs, which have lured hundreds of young community members to their ranks in recent years.

Minnesota Neighborhoods Struggle With Rise of Somali Gangs:

foxnews.com/story/0,2933,534048,00.html

that as many as 80% of the Somali refugees entering the US may have done so illegally, here.:

refugeeresettlementwatch.wordpress.com/2008/12/04/somali-suicide-bomber-given-decent-burial-in-minnesota/

A shooting rampage carried out by US Army Major Nidal Malik Hasan that killed 13 and injured 31 in Fort hood, Texas has once again put Muslims in America under the spotlight - especially those serving in the army.

globalvoicesonline.org/2009/11/12/usa-fort-hood-massacre-puts-spotlight-on-muslims-in-army/

Obama acts as anti-Muslim anger threatens to engulf US

guardian.co.uk/world/2009/nov/08/fort-worth-shootings-obama

45 Muslim doctors planned US terror raids

telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1556553/45-Muslim-doctors-planned-US-terror-raids.html

And your prisons are filled with black men converting to allah. I havent' even looked for the kebab shops in the US, but why would they be any different from the ones in Europe? Did your cat go missing last night? Don't call Mai Lings Chinese restaurant!

Seems like you have your own problems with "dialogue"....

Dariusz

I'd probably be safer eating one of those nasty kebobs, minus the ones with human flesh, than I would be getting a flu shot.

at least I would know what made me sick and could sue the kebob shop owner.

xcuse me, Dariusz, but what makes you think those Somali gangs are acting upon muslim influences?

There really are no more issues here with muslims than any other group. It would be real nice if they were absolutely perfect above and beyond the rest of us. But they're not. Saying there is a problem among the muslim community in the USA is nonsense.

If my cat ever goes missing it would probably be because a bear ate it.. or a wiccan needed a sacrifice. That is closer to home for me, dariusz.

I don't know about that either, Dariusz. You have quoted the wrong man, amigo.

DariuszTelka
This kind of problems discussed many time in this forum. I can say most of them not went beyond the cat fight. What is your suggestion then ? What should be done to resolve the issue ?

mephias
Education.

Hmm...I believe you think that immigrants work and act like "normal folks". They don't. You want to sue them. That is not going to work. They don't have any money, and the money they have they keep away from the governnment. This is the problem with some of you guys here on this forum. You think muslim immigrants are just white people with dark skin. They are not. They are fundementally different from "us" in every aspect of life.

We have families and law and order in society

They have klans and tribes

We have ethics and a sense of community

They have us versus them and everything is allowed

We have pride in our work ethic and paying taxes for the society

They see work as for weak people and taxes as stealing from them

This list can go on for a long time. I am astonished as to the blindness from some of you guys who claim that all they need is education. Listen, I don't want to start any "my race is better than your race" here, but look at Africa, look at the middle east, look at all those countries. They have nothing, nor will they ever get anything. Even with todays technology and scinence readlily available for anyone to use, they still live like our ancestors did thousands of years ago. That is because their IQ is much lower than ours. Yes, education can get them closer to what we have achieved here in the west, but not enough for them to fully become like us. But why would we want them to be like us? We should respect them for their culture and their way of life, and stop importing them here like some "social" experiment and think that they will become like us, if we just give them the same opportunities and education. It just doesn't work!

So, when you see them in their kebabshops, sitting outside flipping their beads, wearing their religious clothes, they do not want to be like us. And I don't want them too either. I want them to be in their own countries where they belong and they can thrive among themselves. Here they will never fit in.

Somalis are of subsaharan origin. This is widely accepted as being one of the poorest regions of the world, if not the poorest. People here have not developed since the dawn of mankind. Here rules the warlord and the witchdoctor. Somalis are the least integrated people of Norway. They are at the bottom of every statistic when it comes to work, integration, education. But they are top when it comes to crime, drugs and violence.

Here's a newslink from a norwegian newspaper that actually has a list of all the violence and murders they have commited just recently. It's called "Somalis more criminal":

dagbladet.no/nyheter/2005/01/14/420284.html

The fact that they are also muslim just adds fuel to the fire. That someone actually manages to say that "we don't have any problems with muslims", is lying. And I will prove it, if he continues to say it.

Muslims in Poland will never integrate, they will never become "Polish". Nor do I want them to. And if some of you actually after all the links I have posted from half a dozen european countries and even the U.S. But maybe when it's your sister or your mother that get's robbed or raped that you will actually wake up and see the evil that is islam.

Islam and third world people is the absolutely worst combination one could get, and if we import that to Poland, then our country will be just like France or England in a matter of decades. Do you really want that? Riots in the streets of Warszawa and Krakow? The burning of shops and cars? The beating up of innocent old women and children because they are christian and "dirty", according to the "holy book" of the muslims?

Give me a fvcking break! Open your eyes! Education? What liberal leftist crap paper have you read? What sheltered city do you live in? Come outside and smell the kebabshops and listen to the words of allah from the minaret towers!

I grew up in the suburbs, I've attented a 50% muslim school, I've been in a mosque, I've seen stabbings, shootings, drugdeals, violence, rapes and all that comes with this religion. I'm not taling out of my ass behind the computer in some safe little area. I have my finger on the pulse of society, and it's fvcking a 110 and increasing.

Dariusz

DariuszTelka

Dude, you know Islam for what it is. You're a good European.

You polish bring them closer because you mix with them.In the West they live in ghettos.

Western people are most likely to mix with MuSLIMES.

Eastern european are most likely because the West deprives them of their natural resistance.For the West Slavs,thirdwordlers etc are the same,they are simply immigrants.We talk here about bullsh1tters with stockings.

We will lift their mini skirts and penetrate their tender butts.

No sorry, I won't do that to your ugly mommy.

Jew,do not mingle here.These guys do not know what expects them.The first break up will happen here in Greece and then the bag of Aeolus will open all over Europe.

Absolute nonsense.

Please show to a study or a newspaper article that shows that third-world muslim immigration to to any western country is a success.

I am waiting.

Dariusz

First you answer me smart boy. You don't have any solution but you like moaning and humiliating. I can post tones of crime news which is made by westerners too. What it will proove ? I don't support uncontrolled immigration, but is blaming this people all the time the only thing that needs to be done ? What about politicians ?

But it is obvious your only aim is decrying muslim people with some nonsense without thinking about the issue.


Well said I agree with you. It could be part of the solution.

mephias

why do muslims have problems integrating/assimilating into western societies?

southern

Wtf are you talking about?!

I'm not mephias but it's partly because of lack of acceptation by the locals and also that their prayer requirements don't always square with the needs of the working week. They need to pray more often than Christians do.

Also, many Muslims eat only halal. All should according to their religion. Halal is available in parts but you have to look hard to find it.

King Sobieski

Some of them are integrating some of them are not.
I will explain three different scenarios there can be thousands.

Worst scenario
- Muslim family, came to a western country. Parents are not open to changes or any differentiation other than their culture. And they continue interact with people only from their culture. Also their child raise in restricted group and will not interact with other group. In this case all of family will stay intolerant and will not integrate for a very long time.

Better one (long term integration)
- Muslim family, came to a western country. Parents are not open to changes or any differentiation other than their culture. And they continue interact with people only from their culture. But the children interact with some other people from other cultures and if open and clever enough can mix the good side of all cultures in him.

Optimistic one (short term integration)
- Muslim family, came to a western country. Parents are open to changes or any differentiation other than their culture. And they continue interact with people from all cultures. Also they raise their child as a tolerant people. And they make their choices.

But other side of the mirror, I don't see any difference between a racist and fanatic muslim.


Food or praying only symbolic part of religion. And normally if someone educated enough (I also mean religious education). This kind of things won't cause any kind of problems for integration. I believe most important part is having friends from all the cultures and to be able to see positive sides in all of them.