In Memory of victims, who had their lives cruelly taken at Treblinka Death Camp in Poland

Absolutely! Nevertheless, this does not nullify the significance of Der Stürmer, its authors, contents and readers, for the understanding of the attitudes toward Jews in Germany.

Only in so far as The Sun, its authors, content and readers are necessary to the understanding of the attitudes towards homosexuality in England - an interesting footnote, at best a short chapter in the story, but not the heart of the matter.

I said it is far better. If you can only argue with what I don't say, please give up this discussion now.


Precisely. And of course, how many of the men involved with the Holocaust even read Der Sturmer? I'd imagine that the senior camp officials and 'policy planners' didn't and that the majority of the guards couldn't.

#56 is NOT anti-Polish, but a sad, indeed regrettable, statement of historical fact!! As to my noticing Jew hatred here on PF, anyone proud of such bigotry is both deluded as well as dangerous. Probably those same people too are church-going Christians and don't even see the hypocricy therein:-)LOL

"Der Stuermer" is indeed a source, yet not in the way you mean it. It is of course a source of showing the sick mind of Herr Streicher and others, NEVER as a wellspring of historical fact!!!

You show me a Jew who drank gentile's blood in order to make matzoht, I'll gladly pay you a king's ransom,

Fortunately for those of us who live in Poland, Jew-hating people and/or those proud of such bigotry are far more likely to be Polish-American than Polish: Poles seem to have moved on.

Ah, the light becomes to dawn. Now scroll up to #55, please, and note that it had been referenced precisely as "a source of showing the sick mind of Herr Streicher and others", in the context of discussing the causes of the Holocaust. NOT as "a wellspring of historical fact" regarding Jews. And this defines your rant #56 alleging my anti-semitism as unjustified, offensive, and arguably as just a manifestation of deeply rooted anti-Polish resentments. Face it: you expect anti-semitism so much, you are on such a short fuse, that you interpreted as an attack on Jews something that clearly wasn't one.

Unless you've "slept through" the past thousand years or so of European history, you must have read/researched that the Catholic Church throughout the Holy Roman Empire helped to foment Jew hatred among the native population with its ridiculous notion that the Jews actually 'murdered' one of their own. Since all thinking people know it was Pontius Pilate (Roman governor of Galilea and NOT a Jew, nor a Christian either for that matter, but a Roman pagan!!!) who ordered the death of Jesus, any discussion to the contrary is a waste of our time. The fact that Judas Iskariot, who turned in Jesus at the Last Supper, happened to be a Jew, is certainly no reason to blame the Jews (ergo ALL Jews) for the death of Christ. That's like saying because the potentates of Ottoman Turkey decreed the slaughter of the Armenians, therefore EVERY Turk is a vicious aniti-Christian. Different circumstances, same wrongheaded thinking:-)

The only Treblinka thread was closed. So I came here. Great film I watched tonight on local television

Most of the film is spoken in Polish so it's extra special

• 
  Treblinka's Last Witness
  

Merged:

In Memory of victims, who had their lives cruelly taken at Treblinka Death Camp in Poland

Great news Poland is going to buid a museum in memory of the 900,000 murdered in the German death camp at Treblinka , lest we never forget the poor souls that perished at the hands of the German Nazis.

Poland to open new museum at German Nazi Treblinka death camp.

thenews.pl/1/11/Artykul/317380,Poland-to-open-new-museum-at-German-Nazi-Treblinka-death-camp

Those of us who have made the effort to visit the site know that there is already a museum there.

I wonder what the new museum will have to say about the Treblinka gold rush.

Hmm why is it that every time I post you have the need to berate and belittle or troll. For your information I have paid my respects at other sites of rememberence and have not had a chance to visit Treblinka.


I see it as an oportunity to educate people well into the future.

Sadly anything involving past events which is set up by the present regime will be less about education and more about indoctrination.


Fine then, let me put my money where my mouths is: if the new museum at Treblinka mentions the Treblinka gold rush for any reason other than to deny that those events ever took place, I'll pay for your train tickets from where-ever you are to Malkinia and then your taxi to Treblinka and then back to Malkinia station and back home, I'll even make those first class tickets. If the new museum at Treblinka either fails to mention the gold rush or mentions it only to denounce the claims as anti-Polish propaganda etc, you'll donate 10zl to Yad Vashem.

I could equaly talk about minority Jewish involvement with the NKVD and their direct actions and profits made in sending my parents to concentration camps in Russia.

But in no way would I ever make the comparison to the Nazi hollocaust, nor would I place any collective blame upon the Jewish people.

During times of war there is always a minority of random lunatics on all sides who come come out of the woodwork once they see a opportunity for self gain.

But the German Nazi machine was somethig quite different and most horrific in the fact it had such huge support of the German people.

900,000 exterminated on this one site alone, may they never be forgoten, may there always be a place to visit in rememberance

Yes, the NKVD was noted for not doing anything ever on Saturdays due to so many of their staff observing the Shabbat, weren't they?


Contemporary reports from the region would disagree with you about the word 'minority' there. And the present regime would most probably claim that all of the minority in Poland who came out of the woodwork during WWII were not Poles but instead ethnic Germans, Ukrainians, Belarussians, Jews, communists, homosexuals, mormons, etc and thus not in the slightest bit Polish.

Takes one to know one...

Also, there were groups of pre-war Polish citizens including Jews and, to a lesser extent, the Ukrainian and Belarusian nationalists, who saw the Soviet NKVD presence as an opportunity to start political and social agitation. Many of them committed treason against the Polish state by assisting in round ups and executions of Polish officials.[

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_repressions_of_Polish_citizens_(1939%E2%80%931946)

There is no point in engaging you in any further conversation Harry, you have your own version of history and anti Polish agenda to promote.

Out of respect for the title of this thread I will say no more on the matter,

Let those who died in Treblinka at the hands of the Nazis never be forgotten.

Yes, because everybody who has studied indoctrination carried out in Nazi-era Germany is clearly a supporter of indoctrination, aren't they.


Why is it that people who say things like that can never ever add the words 'and some Catholics who spoke Polish as a first language and self-identified as Polish also collaborated with the Nazis'?


Pity that they weren't left to rest in peace and it's also a pity that their memory is so often abused by those who accuse people of stating historical facts of having 'anti-Polish agendas'.

Who? LOL

yes - the phrase 'Polish death camps' used by German media is of course a fact and not some intentional slander

This is a good thing, although I personally prefer the quiet memorial that's there already. It's a place of quiet reflection on the evils of fascism.


This is an obvious risk, however the focus of the memorial museum is not fixed in stone, and can be changed in the same way that the current regime have done elsewhere.


The sad history of that awful nazi camp would be incomplete without that. It should be presented but never excused.

How about to give a kick in the gullies to any such a scum to spread this lie? I think they're going to have that in store for free.

I am glad you think that this is a good thing, I was fortunate enough to have been able to speak with survivors of this horror who had made the effort to come to our school and discuss their experiences of this horror, I understand that those poor souls need to rest in peace, but from the emotional words of those that survived and came to speak to us, that foremost the truth horror should be told to younger generations, that this should never be forgotten, and most importantly that this is never repeated .

I hope the new facility will carry on the work of those survivors who sadly are very few today, and will give the youngsters of today the same insight that I was given when I was at school.

The lessons of Treblinka shall always remain within the collective memory of both victims and their survivors! Tire as many may of the nagging reminders from such unutterable atrocities, leave us not forget that only through the complicity of the gentile world were the events at Treblinka, Majdanek, Sobibor along with numerous others possible. Embarrassingly though, the WJC back in the '30's refused to recognize Nazi horrors for what they were, and Roosevelt sold out to the Senator Breckenridge Longs of this world, the isolationists and the fear mongers.

Both Christian as well as Jew suffered in Treblinka! That the Jews were allowed a special "place of honor" among those slaughtered was Hitler's choice, not ours. No rational, sentient being SEEKS victimhood; it is foisted upon those who bore the sole disgrace of being so few in number, and yet so recognizable, that their isolation in the camps took place as effectively as it had.

The actual lesson here is that such is not a Polish, a German, a French or an American phenomenon. Hatred is a universal disease which needs feeding.

Education is therefore the sole key to salvation:-)

Amen

Yes. We should never, ever forget what happened.

In Poland there were of course several death camps. The sheer scale of Auschwitz tends to mean the others are sometimes overlooked. Majdanek and Atutthof certainly have memorial museums, however people tend to visit the most well-known one. A chilling place. I'm not sure how a museum would be at Treblinka - possibly a small one, due to the location (very out of the way in a beautiful and rural area) and the fact that the camp was raised to the ground by the Germans.

It would be good for it to tell the story of Janusz Korczak, his co-worker Stepha and the children from their orphanage there; it was a part of the countryside that was known to them well, on the way to the palace at Mężenin where he spent a lot of time.

You're making things up. "Polish death camps" is a phrase that was used by the US media. Out of stupidity and certainly not to put the blame for the Holocaust on Poland.

Correct. More accurately would be to state "GERMAN death camps located on Nazi-held Polish territory." The other way, it sounds as though the camps themselves were both a Polish concept as well as inception, a statement which is historically false!!

Without Hitler, Oswiecim would have remained merely another small Polish village and wouldn't have had to be "renamed".

Too complicated. Simply use "concentration camps", and almost everyone on the planet will know that you are talking about German camps and not the American, British or Soviet variety.

no it is not 'complicated'.. even Obama referred to 'Polish death camps' did he not?
the weirdest thing is that German school children are taken on tours of the camps...so they can learn about what happened....but guess what they go to Auschwitz, not any of the many that are on present German soil. Why is that?

Call me paranoid if you like but I think it's weird.

here's an article on quite recent use of "polnische Vernichtungslager" on a German public TV channel website

niezalezna.pl/95762-niemcy-znow-klamia-pisza-o-polskich-obozach