What was it like in 1989+ in Poland when the Soviet house of cards fell?

I could be totally wrong on this, but my research points at only a very limited window for visa free access - between 1972 and 1980. I know why it was revoked in 1980 - but I'm not sure why it took them so long to agree on visa free access to begin with. One of the most ridiculous things was the "Friendship Bridge" in Frankfurt/Slubice - yet it was apparently very difficult to actually get a visa to visit for shopping, for instance.

Thank you for your personal story :)


Tell me about it - I'm trying to write a book about the Polish/German border post 1945 - and I've still got so many gaps in my research.

Even one question - about the presence of barbed wire on the Polish/Czechoslovak border is impossible to find a clear answer for. I've found some documents which suggest that it existed, even on the top of Sniezka - but nothing definitive.

Strange thing, Delphi is a very reasonable person to me, and when he is -- imho -- wrong, I do not hesitate to correct him.

Regarding un-falsified publications, I have read enough of them when I was a student and had access to everything published underground at that time. Ossendowski was one of authors I read. To be quite honest, the underground publications also included a lot of gibberish, for example works of Cat-Mackiewicz. One day it was enough when me & friend got a pile of "Protokoły mędrców Syjonu", Me and friend looked at each other, dug up a large hole at my lot and buried that poison. We would not risk going to prison for distributing such crap, believe me.

Also, reading "official" publications such as Joseph Stalin's "O językoznawstwie" (do you know the English title, 1jola?) gave me good understanding of the communist crap.


*I* could be wrong. I could have mixed that with free access to Czechoslovakia.


Not that I could remember that - it depends on what year it might be.
When I was a kid, my Dad took me to the Czechoslovak border and I enjoyed entering to Czechoslovakia, just having fun how I broke the law ;) No barbed wire that I could remember. And absolutely no in 1980's. I only don't remember when the free access was allowed and when it was revoked, but I KNOW such period existed.

There was barbed wire on the Czechoslovak-Austrian borded with "fields of death". I could see it myself in 1974.

There is some material about it...but in german...

helgaschultz.de/media//DIR_40398/32563b6efcdc2b91ffff8650ac144232.pdf
Erinnerungen-Spannungsbereich-Erlebnisse-deutsch-polnischen-Grenzgebiet
tragische-Staatsgrenze-Geschichte-deutsch-polnische-1918-1945
Frauen-Z%C3%BClz-Biala-Lebensgeschichten-deutsch-polnischen
geschichte-transnational.clio-online.net/rezensionen/id=11760&count=21&recno=11&type=rezbuecher&sort=datum&order=down&geschichte=75&s egment=16

How is your german Delph? :)

Now - that's an interesting story that's untold in English. If you believe the English speaking world, all underground publications are somehow "good".

Any idea if there was ever neo-Nazi publications distributed during those times?


Maybe - I shall double check.

What's interesting to me is that the Soviet Union was so paranoid that they refused to allow a border crossing between Poland and the Lithuanian SSR - although I guess there wouldn't have been much demand when the direct road from Warsaw-Vilnius went through the Belarusian SSR anyway.


Speaking of this, I once read a transcript of a broadcast from Radio Tirana. Wow, to say the least.

Not in the late 80s.

Not that I know of, and I would certainly notice any. Bear in mind, Poles were brought up in hatred towards Germany, so the picture "A German = a Nazi" was really working. No, I think neo-Nazi stuff is the matter of 1989+


Once, in 2000's I met a Norwegian professor on a train. He told me that story. In 1968, him and his friends came to Poland and since Poland was SO CHEAP, they bought a car here. Bored with constant drinking, they drove towards the Russian enclave of Leningrad along the Polish coast, eastwards. They tried to crash the barrier to Soviet Union and their luck was they got detained by the Polish. The Polish wanted to transfer them back to Norway via Czechoslovakia and they indeed sat in an arrest at the Polish border because meanwhile the Commie invasion of Czechoslovakia started ;-) The professor told me it took LONG time before someone found the way to send the boys back home ;-)


Daddy "Sunshine" Stalin was very eloquent in it ;-) "Dear comrades, the journalists of Pravda, you've come here and asked what is my opinion on linguistics? Well, I'm not an expert in linguistics, but I'm an expert in Marxism-Leninism and as everything can be explained by Base and Superstructure, you have come to the right man..." ;-)

Like Jarek Kaczyński, my word!

I think, it was 1978. My buddy and I found ourself unintentionally on the Slovakian side at Barwinek's border crossing (Dukla Pass, Low Beskid "Beskid Niski"), after a long trek, tired and hungry. The idea was to buy some food in their local store there (probably a jar of meatballs in tomato sauce - a standard tourist issue in those times, which explains why our backpacks were usually so heavy - 25-30 kg). Well, the blue marks on the border trail were somewhat confusing at that locality and there we were: on the wrong side of the stout chicken wire fence.

Yes, that was a chicken wire fence but it was only installed in the nearest vicinity of that border crossing, several hundred meters or so. I have trekked the entire mountain range of Sudety and Karpaty in 70s and I have never seen any barber wire on the border. Not even in Bieszczady, in the so-called "Bieszczady Sack", where the three borders met,

bieszczady.pik-net.pl/worek.phtml

This fence was an exception so you might find it useful to remember when writing your book. What happened next is a quite a story.

We had a quick decision to take:
a. go back and circle around the fence. Nay - we were too tired and too hungry for extra walking.
b. climb over the fence on the Polish side and approach Polish border officers. No, too many Slovak tourists have already seen us and started asking question (usually in German) about our backpacks ("Is it a portable bed"?)

c. Approach Czechoslovakian border guards, apologize and reason with them.

We picked the last option, and then have been dully arrested, interrogated by an angry colonel recalled from his home in Košice (at least 50 km away) and - after six hours and after signing a Slovakian version of their incident report, and witnessing signing of the international "receiver-acceptance document" (two tourists, two backpacks, one hatchet, one kettle, one tent, 10 pairs of socks, mostly dirty..) - we were handed over to a local WOP lieutenant who swore that he would take revenge on a first Czechoslovakian taking a p1ss on the Polish side of the border. That's what they usually did there, on both sides. And he added that the trail markings at Barwinek vicinity were indeed screwed up and that's why he had to deal with so many minor infractions by tourists. He was really angry at that Slovak colonel for being such a rigid official.

Stop spreading lies you a$$hole.In PRL times my parents travelled not only to western and eastern european countries but also to exotics like Thailand,Columbia or Vietnam.In 1985 you could buy 2 weeks vacation in Vietnam for $180!And none of my parents was a prominent PZPR member nor had a family in the West,in fact my father was an ordinary PZPR member running private enterprise (soda manufacturing) and my mother was a teacher.Don't blame the system because you and your parents were losers.If they only had a hot dog kiosk at PKS bus station they would be able to afford exotic vacation too.

I wrote something nasty about your parents, Grubas, then read your post again.


No, sorry. No real reason to insult your parents. You wrote "1985". I wrote 1971 - 1980. Can you read?
Or you have just skipped this part to call me a$$hole?


Will you say sorry? Or you just are a coward?

Sorry.

Then no problem. <handshake>

Thank you ever so much for your story - it helps me with trying to put the book together. I really appreciate it, thanks :)

I'm shocked that there was no wire at the PL/CZ/SU border - I know exactly where you mean (been there myself), and that's a huge surprise for me to learn that.

I remember late in my tenure(1983 maybe) I, along with a friend, made our way to Luxembourg crossing the Polish-NRD border via Zgorzelec/Gorlitz. I was literally blown away at the freedom-of-movement these border-town people enjoyed. While we were showing our papers to the guards Poles speaking German were walking accross the bridge(at least I think it was a bridge) into East Germany and Germans speaking Polish were entering PRL. It was surreal. Furthermore, there seemed to be a real sympatia between the two groups. It was memorable.

Delphi:


"Something was ringing, I only was unsure in what church" ;-)

espaces-transfrontaliers.org/en/conurbations/terri_doc_ag_frankfurt_en.html

I have found some picture: Army Cabaret 1987

Army cabaret in the military training range, Masuria. Me in the center with AK-47, and issue glasses cause I broke mine and had no money to afford better ones ;-)

It was June 1987, 2 years before the fall of communism in Poland. My situation was -- as always with me -- quite untypical. Yes, I managed registering my diploma work at the University and went to the Reserve Cadet School (SPR) in Kraków on the very same day. Meaning delay in arrival to the unit, yet due to my luck, I was not punished. It's necessary to say I left pregnant wife at home -- there were no excuses not to join the Army. Luckily, nobody asked if I had graduated or not. I could only graduate in late Autumn the same year, on a leave in Warsaw.

The people at the school were a mix of chemical engineers, painters and graphics artists from the Academy of Fine Arts (Kraków), and therapists from another Cracow University (AWF?). May 2007 was the "unitary term" in Kraków, ending with military oath ceremony (I could meet my wife twice during that month, her coming to Cracow). June was field range training in Masuria, where I got the news about my daughter's birth. I had to wait another week until the unit returned to Cracow but in all honesty, I got far longer leave than expected for my patience.

Yes, just two years before the fall of communism, yet I can assure you nobody even dreamed that might ever happen. I was quite frustrated, feeling the time was invariably lost, attending obligatory political lectures explaining why the Nazi Germany covered under NATO disguise were danger to Poland, how the American airplanes would spread chemical weapon, and how to fight against American helicopters armed only with Kalashnikov assault rifles... Political officers nagged to join the Party, and later the Army was promising brilliant career including a flat to live.

Only two years had passed and Free Poland occurred. The Kraków military academy was dissolved very soon...

This picture, just to infuriate some of my Honorable Disputants:
Adam Michnik Dec 1981

Do you recognize that guy? Adam Michnik was together with us, Warsaw Technical University students, at the strike of the Independent Students' Association (NZS) in December 1981, just couple of days before the martial law was announced. I fail seeing Kaczyński Brothers there, at that strike.

Hanging posters, December 1981

That's to complete the story of one cold December 1981 day-break, during which we've been yelled out by scared queue-waiters at the closed butcher's shop.

Seargeants leaving the Army, May 1988

This is a time proven tactic: 30 years before that DDR was spreading their tale of "potato bug":


images.library.wisc.edu/History/EFacs/GerRecon/omg1950Sept/reference/history.omg1950sept.i0033.pdf

The story resurfaced six year later in Poland and Czechoslovakia, because the pest have been spreading east of Germany with alarming speed. Even children were engaged - school posters (or rather collages of text and sketches) included hand drawn images of American bombers dropping "stonka ziemniaczana" like crazies.

Yes, boletus, you remember and know a lot. I admit I read your tourist story with excitement; I often used to think what would happen if I crossed the same border and got stuck there, now you've told me ;)

Have you been to Poland during the martial law yet? Still no problems at the Polish side of the Czechoslovak border, only you would be approached by a soldier, asked for papers and where you were going next. On the other hand... Already in mid-1990's I got unfair treatment from Czech border officers... later same from Slovak border Captain in 2000's... Good the borders have been abolished!

Here's a nice movie made by someone in 1989 in Bydgoszcz:

youtube.com/watch?v=xlSqv5-9ESY

you can see what streets of an average town looked like in that time.

Cinek

I am glad you liked it. :-)


No, I left Poland for France in summer of 1979. My French friends have helped me a lot during the waiting period for my Canadian landed immigrant visa. I landed here in April 1980. I visited my family in Poland several times, after 1992 - not as often as I would wish it to be.

One particular visit was funny in one respect: the old and the new money at the same time everywhere! You guys were still in shock after being treated like millionaires for so long - 20 thousands here, 100 thousands there. So everyone was still counting in old złoty. I, on the other hand, preferred all transactions in the new currency because its strength was comparable with Canadian dollar. All I had to do was to divide a price of an item by two and then try to compare it with a Canadian price. But removing those four redundant zeros in my head was a bit trickier for me.

I always asked cashiers to return my change in new currency and they would inadvertently deny my request because they were always short of small change in PLN currency. So, I have unwillingly accumulated a big pile of old money. One day I decided to get rid of it on the occasion of buying a ticket at a railway station. The hall was almost empty, the cashier was nice, the ticket price was somewhere about 37 PLN, so I happily commenced counting my old money, but I stopped in the middle, turned around and realized that there was already a long line forming behind me. Desperately, I pushed the entire pile of my old money towards the cashier, and she counted it so fast that I was quite impressed. "You are two złoty short, sir" - she said. And guess what? I did not have any PLN coins, so I was forced to use my two shiny 20 PLN bills. And my pile of old money grew by the extra 30 000 złoty.

The cars haven't change much.

Excellent story!


Now, milky, I understand. You're blind, aren't you?

Thanks, Antek, for explanation. It is really interesting. Over 70% is quite a yield!

I have found some pictures.. There are more from different points in time, not scanned yet. Today: Just before, at the beginning and during the martial law in Poland.

Just before the martial law times, December 1981, posting in Warsaw, me the one running with posters.

People of the Solidarity Region Mazowsze were occupying their building until removed by the riot police (ZOMO). 13 Dec 1981.
Bogdan Borusewicz (I think) in the centre.

Riot police blocking access to ul. Mokotowska, so the crowd could not help the Solidarity activist in Mokotowska. Seen from Plac Zbawiciela, 13 Dec 1981.

Another shot of the above.

Vacations 1982 at the top of Orlica in Sudety. No problem to travel to the border zone with Czechoslovakia during the martial law. Of course, the photo was meant as a joke. "Me trying to overthrow the border post" ;-)

11th of November 1982, Warsaw, ul. Długa towards Nowe Miasto. Leonid Brezhnev died the day before, and on 11th Nov 1982, Lech Wałęsa was released from internment. Demonstrations, riots. Note: No stones, bottles, any weapon in the protesters' hands. People were really pacifists at that era. This photo was taken by my cousin. On the same day, I and friend went to Teatr Polski to see Wyspiański's "Wyzwolenie", then, both wearing suits, we were strolling freely in the middle of riots.

Brings back some memories. I was way too chicken to snap any pics.

Well, I was there, with my camera (except one picture). Memories dry out. Pictures, and especially back-notes stay.

I will tell you two stories though, since I think they might be at least funny a little bit.

In December 1981, as described above, I was on strike at Politechnika Warszawska, and all Warsaw Universities were on strike, too. I was asked by our Committee to go to the Firefighting Academy to eye-witness events there (some pictures remained). The firefighters were, technically, Cadets and they basically should not go on strike. Their Academy got surrounded by the riot police and a crowd there was awaiting new events. The students there sang "Obława" (The Hunt Chase), a song by Jacek Kaczmarski.

I was there taking pictures with my Start 66S, which was a medium-format, double-lens reflex camera, not small. After taking some pictures of policemen, the police invited me to a police-car for interrogation. I was sure the camera would be opened and the film overexposed. One of policemen asked me if I was aware of my misdeed, taking illegal photos. Then my brain started working very fast. Before those events, I had read the Penal Code because I was interested in the risk level. And I answered calmly: "According to Section this-and-that, Paragraph such-and-such, it is forbidden to take pictures of military, railway, ........., objects. However, the Paragraph does not mention the police action". The guy was shattered. He handed my intact camera back to me and told me to leave, fast! ;-) Of course, I told him a total lie! Given Paragraph definitely forbid taking pictures of police action ;-) However, I had made the impression I had known the law better than him, so he was not taking any risk to call my cards ;-)

In all fairness, Radio Free Europe used to broadcast different advices, one of them being: "Know Your Rights" and I took their advice very seriously.

By the way, in my presence, the Police assaulted the building using a helicopter, too, and the students were simply sent home after interrogation. A few days after, martial law was announced. The Academy itself got its name changed, new management installed, and went under auspices of The Ministry of Internal Affairs, making the school effectively a military academy.

Next lesson was learned on November 11th, 1982. There were riots in Warszawa. I have to explain the notion of the "Solidarity riot". Solidarity was a non-violence movement. The protesters could be shouting slogans, waving national flag or banners but nobody sane would have ever thrown a stone, a bottle, anything, at the police. The reason for that was: "We are making peaceful protests and in turn we are oppressed by the police, so we have morally won". To be very honest, yes, it was water-cannons, it was tear-gas, it was some arrests but in all honesty, nobody wanted to make any harm to the other side! It was like a street theatre when I think about it today.

On the said Nov 11th, 1982 (the day after Brezhnev died and the day Wałęsa was released), I and my best friend put our suits on and set off to Teatr Polski to see the Wyspiański's "Wyzwolenie" (Liberation). Attending the play was perceived as a patriotic duty for intelligentsia. My best friend was a son of a police-worker (not a policewoman), so he knew many tricks. He told me that we should walk at slow pace, as we were taking a stroll, casual people, and under no circumstance we should look in policemen's eyes. That worked out very well. The first patrol that stopped us and question: "Where are you going to?". "We are going to the theatre", "OK". After the play, we went to see more riots. In the park behind the Arsenal I discovered how fast police cars were when used for chasing people ;-) Yes, we were running in our suits ;-) Getting on the bus, the bus full of tear-gas, so everybody cried. Someone remarked: "So sad that the good guy Brezhnev died, everybody's weeping for him..." ;-) Eventually, friend and I walked downwards on a sloped street towards Vistula River and suddenly I could see the crowd running towards us, very fast. Friend said: "Don't run. We are walking down as if nothing had happened". Then I could see something that made me really shocked. The reason for fear were not any uniformed policemen, no. It was a mob of well-built young men wearing plain clothes, actually disco-style, with shields and bludgeons, smashing their shields with batons and chanting: "GO HOME! GO HOME!" This made me really scared as I realized that secret police really existed, too, and the display of power was overwhelming. Friend whispered "Walk on towards them". Guess what? The "boys" did not notice us because we were nobody to them....

Interesting times.

I too witnessed this on Plac Grunwaldzki. These guys stood out because they were all well-built, well-nourished and tan! They were all tan with a crazed look in their eyes as if on speed.

There was a train named Solina, going from Warsaw to the Bieszczady Mountains. Close to Bieszczady the then Polish-Russian border meandered a bit and the rails went straight, so the train cut through the Russian territory. Before it crossed the border for the first time Russian border guards entered every carriage and remained there until the train re-entered Poland again. The passengers were told to shut the windows, remain in their compartments and preferably not to move nor breathe during the pass. Well, once somebody who was in the toilet when the guards came in, threw a ball of crumpled paper out of the window. The train was promptly stopped, the border guards called for reinforcements and all the passengers had to wait for a couple of hours in the middle of nowhere ("w burakach") until the paper was found.


Yes, they were probably doped, such was the practice, also with ZOMO troops.

Hey, we must have been on the same train, I witnessed the scene very similar to that as you described. :-)
Well actually two youngsters were horse playing, and as a result one headgear went out of the window. But the rest was the same - just as you said.

Must have happened quite often. Some people were probably checking up on the story, wondering if it would work :)

I will elaborate on this later, starting with a photo of Martial Law Announcement poster photo.

This is what amazes me - somehow, everyone got together and managed to prevent bloodshed. It could have easily turned out like in Romania - certainly, 1989 was Poland's finest hour in a long time.

It seems to me that the people screaming about the Round Table and subsequent events are the ones who weren't there.