What was it like in 1989+ in Poland when the Soviet house of cards fell?

Not in any great quantity nor quality(maybe because I would leave for the summer in late May early June).

Some of these fruits can't be grown in cold climates like Poland. For example, cherry. Are you sure it is grown there or imported?

IME Americans (and Brits?) don't normally distinguish between wiśnie and czereśnie, we call both 'cherries' (a side effect of this is I'm not very good at distinguishing them as there is no once single criteria that works all the time). If you really, really want to distinguish the two you can call wiśnie 'sour cherries' but many English speakers will interpret that as a cherry that's gone sour rather than a different fruit....


I've seen all the fruits mentioned being grown in Poland.

Poland grows a lot of cherries of many different types. The earliest ones are starting to appear inhe shops now.

wisnie, similar to visne in turkish, is sour cherry.
czeresnie word looks like chirez, kirez/kiraz in turkish which means cherry with no sour taste.


are they normal cherries or mostly sour cherries.. sour cherries can be grown in relatively colder climates, but, normal cherries, especially the red big ones with much juicy need warmer climates.

Except I've had czereśnie that have a more sour taste than some wiśnie... Anyway, my conceptual framework refuses to classify them as separate fruit and thinks of them as different kinds of the same fruit (like different kinds of apples or pears).

I am positive I was stealing all this fruits as a kid.My block (very nice btw,smallest apt was 78sq meters,mine was 90) was in the youngest part of town and ,behind it were only fields and gardens so me and my buddies were often going get some fruits,we were calling it "iść na careśnie or agrest etc."And people always had plenty of homemade jams and preserves.


So you don't agree with me they are different fruits?To me they are and to every Pole as well,I like czereśnie way better than wiśnie.I don't see how can you classify them as the same fruit,they taste completly different.If I asked for czereśnie and got wiśnie I would want refund.

At the botanical level I'm prepared to agree (and I agree that Polish speakers can distinguish them).

At the linguistic and cultural level they're basically the same fruit in English (American English in my experience) and I have trouble distinguishing them (there are some varieties are clearly one or the other but others that I can't distinguish anymore than I can sz and ś...)

If I have a preference it's probably for wiśnie as they have a fuller taste and are more likely to be used in American cherry pie and (I think) chocolate covered cherries.

Similarly, in English both pieczarki and grzyb are mushrooms (if anything pieczarki are the default american mushroom).

mafketis time to learn the difference

Czereśnia:
flesh: white, not very juicy
skin: yellow or red of warm hue
taste: sweet, sour only if crude

Wiśnia:
flesh: redish, juicy
skin: deep dark red, almost black
taste: sour, sweet only if overmature but never so sweet like czereśnia.

Wiśnie are good for juices, cakes etc.

I can remember that to some extent. I went to my first work after the University and military service in May 1988. There were numerous strikes where workers demanded higher wages. To pacify strikes, the national bank was printing money. Since the supply of goods was insufficient, prices of goods were sky-rocketing. Since the Government could not allow other classes such as scientists, teachers, clerks, medical personnel etc. starve either, more money were printed, then the prices were going further up... I have a feeling the top price of a dollar was some PLZ 10K. The money was worthless. On some Valentine's Day, someone sent me a valentine including a million zloties and text: "Would you sell your wife for a million?" I keep the note until today.

I do not think the hyperinflation was really explained. The authorities simply lost control and could see no way out.

By the way, the first releases of Gazeta Wyborcza were at 50 zloties (half new grosz of today). I also can remember $/PLN exchange rate at the denomination: It was 2.5 PLN per 1 USD. It is around 2.8 PLN per dollar today, although meanwhile dollar was as strong as 4.5 PLN.

very interesting!
Do you remember what the government was telling the people during this time?

No, I was too busy looking for infant formula products for my baby, and I was also too busy with my new work to remember that.

I hear you! My oldest was born in '83 and I remember worrying about the same things(had to make an emergency trip to W Berlin for some injectable vitamin D)

(Hoping mods save this post, as I almost have given up PF yesterday... Don't they have a life except deleting posts?)
It was 1987 and I was serving in the Army in Warsaw, having the chance to be at home with my family and the baby quite frequently. The infant formula products were -- as you know Rybnik the best -- very hard to get. Some day, a delivery of Bebiko was made to the kiosk in the military unit, which was funny, because as far as I know there was nobody else than me interested in that there. Still, one person was only allowed to buy one box of the infant nutrient.

So I called up my platoon, gave them money and told them march to the kiosk ;-) My men bought a box per person and I had THIRTY boxes of Bebiko, enough for quite long time!

Skombinowałeś!

Tak było!

More impressions, 1989+:
No doubt we were all excited with the changes. The total failure of commies in the Senate elections was great, since Senate elections were 100% free (Sejm elections guaranteed the commies part of the seats, hence "sejm kontraktowy", contractual sejm). Free press starting with Gazeta Wyborcza. More chances to travel and passports kept at home, not at the passport office. Let me give an example.

In 1972, my parents and I were invited to Italy by our family branch living there. My Dad was refused a passport. In 1974, parents re-applied and got passports. They were allowed to buy... $50 each for the whole trip. Of course, it was ridiculous. If not money sent from Italy, we could not make it.

In 1990, I got a business visa to Germany and could see, at age of 29, the free world with eyes of a grown-up for the first time. When I saw Berlin Zoo station, I almost collapsed, the impression was so strong. I stayed in Germany for 3 months, witnessing Germany re-unification. I know it will sound strange but the stay in the Germany was the first time in my life when I could eat as much as I pleased. My father was a clerk and my mother was a microbiologist. There had been very little food at home as long as I can remember. So, going out to Germany I weighed 55 kg & 173 cm, and on the return I got already some body ;-)

My return and all those small vendors selling banana in the streets of Warsaw ;-)

Poland started growing, it was very distinct. Stopping hyperinflation by Balcerowicz was great thing. Already in 1995 I could sit with an American in a cozy restaurant of Hotel Maria in Warsaw, enjoying new zloties, the feel of the fiver was GREAT. The same year, a friend from Romania came in Warsaw. He stood by a fruit stall, silent, then he sadly said: "I never knew that peaches could be that large..."

Now, 22 years since the fall of Communism in Poland, I am willing to puke reading all those "Polish" complaining how poor and tragic this Poland of today is... Because a loser will look for guilty everywhere, only not in himself.

I love your posts. Keep them coming!

Exactly, keep your Belief and be happy!
I don't like to discus with people who from nothing come to a little more. They are so happy and afraid of loosing their little world.

They are so self-centred that they refuse to recognize that not everybody are like them.


Like above for example. You are so simple minded that you even talk like GW.
It even doesn't make sense really but make you feel better about yourself.Fine, have it your way.

Honnecker idea? lol
It was pretty bad back then, people wore ugly gray clothing, ugly communist style buildings, long lines in front of stores, police(militia) was strict etc.

Not in 1989 and beyond.

May I ask you how old are you and for how many years have you been living in the PRL?

Polish Punk. You believe, I am an eye-witness.

Let me, Rybnik, go back 10-11 years earlier, pre-1989. This is related to the picture shown above.
Sometimes in Summer 1977, Wojciech Mann broadcast some punk-rock music on the Channel Three of Polskie Radio ("Trójka"). This was a single broadcast to which I and my pals listened with unbelievable interest (I was told Lech Janerka, the Wrocław-based musician, listened to the very same broadcast and after having heard Jean-Jacques Burnel of The Stranglers, Janerka picked up the bass guitar himself). Due to censorship, no more broadcasts of that type were allowed. In Autumn 1978, someone placed small had-made posters in Warsaw, announcing a "meeting of punks" at the Warsaw REMONT students' club. This was the beginning of the Warsaw punk-rock movement, "One Hundred Punks". A band called The Boors (later Kryzys, Brygada Kryzys) consisting of my mates started practicing. Early May 1979 saw the first Warsaw punk concert, The Boors et al., in Anin. People like Kazik Staszewski, Irek Wereński, and others to become leading musicians were there; in addition to other people who made career in photography or movie-making, all centered around alternative music and thinking. People such as Tomek Lipiński joined very soon after. bands such as Deadlock, Poland, Deuter, TILT and many other emerged in Warsaw soon, with bands such as KSU or Bikini in other places in Poland.

Here are three retrospectives, all based on original music recording by me and other people at that time:





Now, let us come to the Commie oppression of those times. Not only me and my mates started attending the school in (quite modest!) punk outfit but I also asked my Dad to photocopy two issues of my fanzin SZMATA at his workplace, which was absolutely forbidden. The director of our school was a Red Commie with links to the secret police. First, she was using girls of our school to spy on us, to steal "evidence" from us (such as copies of the fanzin). Next, she was anonymously informing the police we were a terrorist gang which resulted in visits of policemen at our homes and interrogations. I need to point out the regular policemen were OK people! They were real policemen, so after finding out the denunciation had no ground, they left us alone. Then, parents were called in by the director and the parents were threatened with losing their jobs, and we were threatened to be thrown out from the educational system...

Luckily, we were allowed to make Matura (it was already 1980) and then, just after the First New Wave Festival, the Solidarity emerged in Gdańsk and the life has changed very much, at least for next 1.5 years. And then we had the martial law. I actively participated in the NZS at that time, being a university student.

Now you may understand Rybnik: I know what oppression means and how hopeless life we all were living in pre-1989 Poland. Now, when I read the whining of the Believers, I can only laugh. They either don't know or they have already forgotten...

The last thing, before I forget.

In December 1981, just before the martial law, there were student strikes in Warsaw in which I participated. Adam Michnik and Antoni Macierewicz were with us at Politechnika Warszawska, Jacek Kuroń too (and Janusz Korwin-Mikke was teaching students the principles of free economy soon after, already during the martial law).

Me and my friends were placing NZS posters on walls and lamp-posts on one very cold early December morning. Suddenly we reached a closed butcher-shop. There was a long line of almost frozen to death, zombie-like individuals waiting and hoping perhaps some meat would be delivered by chance. When they saw us, they loudly -- very aggressively -- demanded that we go away or "police comes and no chance for meat". Civilization and caves are two meals away... At that moment, I thought to myself: "I don't know what the future holds but I promise never forget this sight".

I dedicate it to Ironside, Sokrates and other Believers.

What are you even talking about ? Do you know?


Nope, just asking you to say clearly, what you have in mind posting that stuff?I'm no in the mood to guessing.


Why? What it has to do with anything ?

Ironside, we are in the history thread. I'm describing my own experiences from 1989- and 1989+. The lessons of history are to be learned; unluckily most of people never learn from history.

You (and not only you) seem a person dissatisfied with the Poland's progress since 1989. I hear different conspiracy theories. I read giving the damn to the present Government. I read about magical recipes for the welfare of Poland. And what I want to tell you and some other people here:

Poland has gone a long way with great success since 1989. As pretty normal and decent country, Poland has own problems no doubt. Still it does not mean we are not living in a decent and successful country, thanks to so despised Leszek Balcerowicz and others. There was time when Adam Michnik, Antoni Macierewicz, Lech Wałęsa and Janusz Korwin-Mikke could work together for the common good; and some of them like Michnik were doing their time in prison or (later) internment for their activities.

You Ironside appear to me as a rather young and unhappy person. Perhaps because you hadn't survived the history lesson by your own experience. You simply miss a perspective, a reference point.

Well, that is all very nice but unless you were in decision centres, your experiences, with all due respect are not essential.
Let summary what you have witnessed: shortages of a basic life necessities and queues.
Let me ask you, so what?
After changes in 1989 there were more of foods stuff and other goods available - great, and again question, so what?


No is not.


Describe young, no I'm not unhappy. I'm simply concern about my country future because unfortunately I have been given brain and ability to use it.


no I don't :)
my reference point is not all about myself like yours !

Iron, first of all it seems to me you grew-up after the fall of communism.
Secondly, your constant worries about the shape of our Ojczyzna indicate you are unhappy and cannot find your place or way in the reality of life. I might recommend to you more enjoying life.

Thirdly, you seem to miss a strong foothold to simply see the progress of Poland since 1989.
Next, your belief in conspiracy theories leads to nowhere. Instead of bettering your life, you constantly look for the guilty of your misfortune (I guess you are a fortunate person, you only envy the more fortunate) and are in search of magical recipe to make you wealthy and successful man. the world does not work that way, sorry.

Anyway, I cannot help you. It is the responsibility of an individual to make own personal success or fail. Complaining or looking for the guilty won't help you, man.

I remember so called fall of communism quite well, thank you.


Constant ?We are on the Internet forum, I don't know what you are doing here but as for myself I present my opinions and views here.

So, it cannot be an indication of nothing else than your preconceptions and prejudices.


What progress? What way Poland progressed since 1989?
That buildings are built and people are living and some are living better then others ?What is new?
Poland is a big European country, rich in resource's and potentials. Unfortunately is exploit by the bunch of cunts and ex-commies, it wouldn't even be so bad if they in parallel with enriching themselves were working for a good of the country.

A fact is the cunts are too lazy too stupid or too ....whatever to even attempt that...
to be continued

Boże drogi...

There is no hope for you, man. Go find nine grams of lead or take a bed-sheet, a spade and walk towards next cemetery. Why should you suffer for your whole life.

Where this come from ? Above sentence make no sense !


What are you about? According to you - if someone thinks that Poland is not developing in the right direction and well enough is a frustrated individual who envy others their wealth and success!eh?

Sorry, but it only pictures unfortunate silhouette of you.
What about - an enlighten and moral citizen who is concerned by the state of Poland's affairs?.


As above have nothing to do with me, I don't need help nor do I blame somebody for my choices or my life, I'm doing all right.

Your words reminded me a number of articles in GW on the subject.
So, did you stole your first million as your guru Barcelowicz advised ?


you wish !:D

Next story about 1989+

As some older of you may remember, the transition from communism to market-economy in Poland was very fast.
On 19 July 1989, the National Assembly of Poland elects Gen. Jaruzelski the President of Poland. 270 votes for, 233 against, 33 abstaining from voting.
On 22 December 1990 (after only 17 months of Jaruzelski's presidency), Lech Wałęsa becomes the President of Poland as the effect of free elections and remains the President for five years.

In August 1991, there was an "attempt of coup d'etat" (the Russians call it that way) in Moscow, led by former commies. Legally elected President of Soviet Union, Boris Yeltsin pacified the coup d'etat and the Soviet Union ceased to exist on 26 December 1991, replaced by Russian Federation.

The winter 1991/1992 was hard for Russia. This was a hungry winter. First time for some 70 years it was hard to buy bread there.

In Spring 1992, I was on two business trips to Moscow. It was only 3 years since the fall of communism in Poland, yet I wore quality clothes, had money on me, felt rich and very much Western. So much has changed since April 1989....

Me and my manager went to a butcher-shop. There were no limitations on what and how much you could buy but I noticed something very weird. I asked the shop assistant for 100 grammes of ham. She had a laboratory scales. So she cut a larger piece of ham and placed it on the scales. Then she was slicing next portions of ham thinner and thinner. The last bits put on the scales were just tiny. We got 100.00 grammes of ham. Do you get my point? As legacy of communism, the assistant had to weigh the meat sharp. In commie times she could be sent to labour camp if she made a slightest mistake...

Then, I went for a smoke with a female PhD of an R&D institute. She produced a tiny packet, then unwrapped the tissue and pulled out a single cigarette. It was the cheapest Polish cigarette of "Klubowe" brand. Single goddam cheapest Polish cigarette, bought apiece! I produced my packet of Camels and offered to her. She, a proud Russian, gently refused the offer.

Next, I was standing by a doughnut booth. It seems all hungry wasps flew in there, since them could not probably find anything to eat anywhere else.

I leaned against the booth and said this prayer:
O Lord!
I come from a free and wealthy country
Never let such poverty return to Poland.
Amen