Poland, Lacking External Enemies, Turns on Itself

Nein danke! Germany did enough to 'help' Poland in the late 18th century to 1918 and again in 1939-1945.

Well...it seems you need us to feel better? Just offering...

;)

The invisible hand is the enemy.

Thanks Convex, that makes sense.

Knowing the New York Times and all the bad things they write about Poland u at the very least have to suspect bad intentions from them, like MediaWatch stated just look at the title they've chosen for this article, even if someone doesn't take the time to read it that's enough, u'd think "those idiots in Poland are fighting among themselves haha".

I have heard the same story from Poles, who explain after 1989 there was no enemy to hate, so the Poles turned on themselves. As much as I respect Poland and admire the Poles, ability to find solutions to problems,that sometimes don't exist. I am some what frazzled, by the need of Poles to dwell in the past and constantly throw pity parties.

Have you actually read the article? It's a very fair observation, that there exists a sort of political "civil war" in Poland and highlights the different opinions that people have.

It's funny - the people criticising this are just the same old Plastic Polacks - quick to judge and criticise, but not quick to live in Poland.


I think there was always a kind of division - the history books I have all make it clear that Solidarity only succeeded because it brought together many people who were very suspicious of each other. The compromise between the intellectuals and the workers was obviously one of the huge achivements by Solidarity, anyway.

I'm Polish born and bred not Polish American, and you not living in the States have no idea what the New York Times or the Wall Street Journal say about Poland, you think they've had a change of heart all of the sudden?? don't be so naive. Some time last year i was watching the late night news, they were talking about local news something completely different, all of the sudden the anchor woman changes the subject for a few seconds and says "A Polish woman was stopped drunk driving in Poland she had 8 or 9% blood alcohol level" and then went to sports. And who do you think controls the media in this country?

Funnily enough, the WSJ has been showing a rather pro-PiS attitude in recent times, what with constant articles attacking the government and praising the opposition. The NYT article also is balanced, accurate and a decent portrayal of what's going on here.


Sounds like your average "and finally..." human interest story. I see stories about other countries here all the time - so what's the problem?

The Polish over-sensitivity really gets on my nerves.

How many years in PL, and how many in US?


Nobody; it is a free press.

Well then why is your non-Polish a** on this Polish Forum? ur not even Polish and have the audacity to call someone who is a Plastic Pollack? why are you even in Poland?

Clearly, you are not adjusting here well. Lacking a skill you could use in Scotland you have no choice but to endure your struggle in Poland craping on Poles and Poland daily. Get a life.

Your quote, only highlights, Delphs comments. From what I have read, at no time does Delph claim his life is a struggle in Poland, quite the contrary, he promotes a land of opportunity for those that are willing to adjust, to the daily problems of Polish life.

Maybe, we are NOT reading the same page...

I think we see Poles turning on others here ;) ;)

By his comments he's showing bitterness towards Poles and Poland if he's got a problem maybe he should leave, Poles aren't gonna adjust to him he's a guess in their country.

As I said - over sensitive. I've noticed though, that it tends to be the least patriotic Poles who suffer from this. You know, the ones who live outside of Poland, or the ones who swore allegiance to a foreign nation, or who falsely claim disability benefits. Real patriotic Poles don't seem to feel the need to get upset. Very odd.


No choice? Thanks, but my skills are enough to walk into a job in the UK if I so wanted. But who the hell wants to live in a country that collapses every time there's an inch of snow?

Incidentally, it's not me that spends his days pledging allegiances to foreign nations while obsessing about Jews. :)


The problems are no worse than elsewhere in my opinion - sure, some stuff isn't great, but what country *is* great? We can't expect Singaporean-style government in Europe - nor do we particularly want to have gerrymandered elections or the death penalty.

On the whole though, Poland is a pleasant enough place to live. I'd rather have the developing nature of Poland than the developed nature of Switzerland or Austria though - I'd be bored to death! The great thing about Poland is that people are much more open minded in business too - outside of the "communist" management by numbers, you can meet some amazingly open minded people who are willing to try new things.

But as I've been saying - the ones who shout "POLSKA" the most are often the worst citizens. It really is rather strange. Could it be that they're in denial about betraying their nation repeatedly?

He isn't - as a citizen of one EU state, he has an absolute right to reside in any other EU state.

And to vote, too.

I suppose I can enrage people further by revealing that I voted for the SLD in the council elections ;)

From the quotes I have read from, Delph, he comes across as someone, who is more than capable of understanding the rules of PL. He is not fresh off the boat and he is not here to re-create the system, but as someone who lives, the daily life in PL and contributes to society, surely his observations are valid. He is a European and PL is part of the bigger family again in modern times.

So am I and that particular "state", country sounds more appropriate, i don't remember Poland handing over its sovereignty. And yes that all sounds very lovely on paper, he's still not Polish and shouldn't say certain things.

No, not at all. I like working with the Polish system, and I especially love the more free spirited approach by many Poles to regulations. It can be infuriating at times, but in general, it makes life more pleasant.

One small example - it's a pleasure to drive here. You don't have to worry constantly about police catching you and punishing you for trivial things, and as someone with half a clue, I don't drive like a maniac or dangerously - but still, it's nice to sit at 100km/h on a wide, straight, quiet 90km/h road and not feel like "oh ****, i'm gonna get caught" any second.

The other great thing in Poland is that people will actually use their brain to get around a problem, rather than point blank refusing as in the UK.

Still, at least I pay taxes in Poland to subsidise those who don't have - unlike most of those "patriots" who live abroad.

Me too, last time. Euro elections too. I suppopse it's a kind of counterbalance to those Poles in London who voted for BJ.


Though they are indeed states. The people of Poland voted to be in the EU in a fair and free vote, knowing full well the direction in which we (including PL) are moving and despite the copious campaigning of those who didn't want it.

As General Jaruzelski, formerly head of the Polish Communist Party, once quoted, "The Pope and I belong to the same generation. We have been intellectually and emotionally shaped in the pre-war period. We have absorbed a strong and vivid sense of Poland's memories, especially Poland's partition and bondage. We inhaled this early history like fresh air, like oxygen, and we lived by it. Our heroes were those who fought against it, the heroic martyrological tradition. In my very first conversation during martial law, he stressed that he always remembered the history of Poland through so many tragedies, through partitions. He reaches down into history. It is intimate with him."

The Polish nation has often only existed in the Polish mind. Having no geography, the Poles feel history must take its place. They give the oaks of their forests the names of lost kings. They bury and rebury their beloved leaders.

The thing that I like about us EU citizens here is that we can vote for them based on their policies, not some long-gone issue that has little to no relevance to the modern day.

I didn't vote for them for the President of the city, but that's because their candidate was the guy who owned the JDJ Bachalski schools. :)

Poland doesn't have supreme, independent authority (sovereignty), PennBoy. I'm not having a jab at you here, just stating that Costa Vs ENEL 1964 made sure that the notion of sovereignty in its fullest sense is granted to no EU accedent. The supremacy of EU Law was decided in that case. Under the dictates of subsidiarity (Amsterdam Protocol, Art 5), Poland's national government is but a middle player between local govt and Brussels. Also, the Protocol expressly states that as much autonomy as possible is to be given to regional administration, not national apparatus. This is a smokescreen in today's concerted supranational drive.

Tusk is not a confrontational PM. He is nothing like Putin in that sense as a leader. Poles needed to go through a period of intensive discussions and protests in order to reconsider their position on a number of things. There is a fractious split but Poles, more than many others, can club together and stave off any external pressure on them to sacrifice themselves for causes far from their interests.

Well - technically, she does. All she has to do is revoke the EU accession law and Poland is fully independent again. This is the crucial next step of the EU - anything post-Lisbon will have to introduce political integration. And I don't think we'll ever see it - Lisbon is the end of the road from Maastricht.

But it hasn't been revoked and that's the point.

Oh i know Seanus, we've been on a friendly footing for the past year or so ;)


True if she revokes it.

It tends to be the bigger powers that need enemies. NATO, as a collective entity with numerous big hitters, created one. The War on Terror was a masterstroke for those that wanted to further their own interests. However, a big difference is that Poland hasn't been singled out for a terrorist attack, unlike those that spearhead the campaign in Afghanistan.

Yeah....appeasement is a real alternative, isn't it Seanie!

They will come for you much later then...