Why are Jews pestering Poland for "proper" WW2 monetary restitution/reparations?

Whilst I have every sympathy with Poland's sufferings at the hands of Germans and Russians, and do not consider it legal proper and just at all, I must remind you that both sets of my Grandparents family lost property in Prussia, not Poland, Prussia,

Maybe you should look further into your countries history, whilst Royal Prussia had indeed submitted itself to the Polish commonwealth in order to gain Polands assistance in overthrowing the harsh rule of the Teutonic Knights, this didnt then make Prussia Poland, any more than it made Lithuania as part of the Polish Commonwealth Poland.

If you claim to be of the original inhabitants of this land, the Prusy tribe, I will have more sympathy for your views, though as Iam Baltid rather than Germanic, I think I could lay just as much claim to being descended from the original inhabitants of this land.

No, I do not belong to some ancient group living there... as much as I know :-)
As far as I am concerned you can claim the property of your ancestors, I'd only ask for it to be conditioned
on assigning the same rights to Polish people who lost their property due to partitions and world wars.

Of course then a question would arise, if there were no known survivors would some Polish organization
be allowed to have a claim, or better yet a summary payment for all properties.

Long before living memory. The Holocaust was not.

That's a powerful argument, but surely it's not based on 'I say so' standard, right? Can you cite some case law or treaty, or something else

to back up this 'living memory' limit?

It's based on common sense - there has to be a cut off point or you'd get people claiming compensation for property lost since the dawn of recorded history.


In Poland, there needs to be either legally valid written proof of ownership or in the absence of that, living witnesses.

Yes, there must be a cut off, but my common sense tells me that in Polish history the partitions had such significant importance that they warrant an exception. I think this exception should also apply to native Americans and black people in the US. Otherwise it is hard/impossible to talk about justice.These things should be decided summarily

by a special UN congress.

A very interesting idea, however it would hardly be practical to financially settle claims from 200 years ago - I doubt any court would be willing (or able) to rule on them and nobody living has any personal emotional investment in this.


I'm not sure how it would work with black people in the US, unless it was somehow in the form of affirmative action. For Native Americans, it would be great if he various treaties and settlements made with them were honoured.


A good idea. In Poland it would make sense for the European Court to be involved than the UN, however either option would be very unpopular on a domestic level.

You think no court would be able to rule on these?

• 
  Ossolineum.jpg
  
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/wiki/Royal_Prussia

Well it must be after WWII then, why did you bring the Treaty of Versailles ?

I suppose that we started WWI and WWII.
You're drivel shows what you are. People like you often accuse Jews of labeling any critic of Israel as an antisemite, as if we're trying to muzzle legitimate criticism of Israel. Well, when you say that the Jews started world wars and you bring the book of revelations to predict our punishment by God, then it's clear that you're nothing but a classic anti-semite. There, I used the word. There is no other way describe your sick and evil attitude.


Yes, I think that you personally are stupid, and I really think you don't know one damn thing about what we're doing. If you did, you'd be ashamed to say such nonsense.


It was people like you who wanted us out of Europe, so we went to Israel. Now you want us out of there too. What does that make you, a legitimate critic of Israel? No it makes you the same thing that Peter Rossa is – an antisemite. Wear the label boldly if that's what you really believe in.

My point in answering these creeps is to show all the sane people out there that a good deal of the criticism you hear about Israel is not legitimate at all but simply a new mutation of jew-hatred. Don't even assume that there's some truth to it. Instead visit Israel, look around, talk to people and form your own opinion.


In case someone wants to know more about Peter Rossa and what a wonderful human being he is, you can hear his opinions on this site: realjewnews.com/?p=702

Just scroll down to his comment quoting Revelations. Sounds pretty much the same as what he wrote here. You can judge a man by the company he keeps.

"Realjew news" indeed. That's a real class act Peter.

Both the Jews and the Arabs are doing horrendous things to one another,It's a vicious cycle.Like it or not the Jews are there to stay.

Time for compromise.Sadly I don't think this will ever happen.

Wait. What?
Jews started both world wars?
Uhhh, you know you're gonna come off as crazy if you write that without any support for it whatsoever?
Unless you can provide some rationale for stating such a thing, you ought to take a step back and ask yourself why you'd post such a thing.

At the moment, Iam half way through this book:
amazon.co.uk/The-Other-Prussia-1569-1772-Cambridge/dp/0521027756/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1336577222&sr=8-2

The book is saying Prussia only felt it submitted itself and pledged allegiance to the Polish King and not the Polish Government, the Polish King allowed Prussia to indeed keep its individuality, its own form of Law and Governance, one I might add that granted far more freedoms and rights to the peasant classes than the Polish Elite did, with the result many of Polands poor moved to Prussia in order to enjoy a higher standard of Human rights than they experienced in their home country, its probably the reason for so many Poles choosing to live in Germanic Prussia than stay at home.


Cheers Yehudi for advertising the fine work that Jewish man is doing, I admire him and his work to the extent that I donate to support the fine work he is doing.

Why would I be supporting a Semite if Iam an anti-semite?
Well you answer the question yourself in the comment you made in your other post, "People like you often accuse Jews of labeling any critic of Israel as an antisemite, as if we're trying to muzzle legitimate criticism of Israel."

Heres some more Jews I like jewsagainstzionism.com

I actually like Jews, its just the Zionist bankers and the Rabbis who still promote their Master Race ideology that I am not so fond of.

Deuteronomy 7 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

Deuteronomy 26 And to make thee higher than all nations which he hath created,

Deuteronomy 28 You shall lend to many nations, but you shall not borrow. 13 And the Lord will make you the head and not the tail; you shall be above only, and not be beneath,

I realize most Jews are not like this at all, but your leaders are, they prove it by their actions, people who defend them share their sin though, Revelation 18 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

As for trying to make me feel guilty about whats in the Holy Bible, forget it.

Yeh, how many times in the history of this forum did you have to write that and similar? The first time was in 2008, when you and joined and I remember those discussions with obsessed antisemites.

Such discussions used to be interesting to me but now I feel I am losing time. :):):)

Sorry.


So true.


Nope, after WW1 some parts of Prussia were regained by Poland, indeed.

So, if we talk about technical land transfer, it is correct - such a thing did happen.

The problem arises when we want to discuss Peter`s claim of persecution of his grandparents which resulted in their leaving the horse farm in Prussia. That simply doesn`t hold water for that time.

It sounds like post WW2.

No, it was in the 1920s, before even Hitler came to power, I wasn't there, it is what my Father tells me, I do not see why he would lie to me, and it wasn't just one side of my Fathers family, it was both sides independently, I would Love to know the truth, even if my Fathers version is exaggerated as people do tend to exaggerate their sufferings, such is the anger at the perpetrators, I cannot see them abandoning property though for no reason, just to make a point.

I have read many books on what the Russians did to the East Prussians after WW two, but there is preciously little available in English about what happened in West Prussia, in fact the book I cited earlier is the only one Ive found, and that doesn't cover history that late.

I understand there are German language books available, but as I don't speak German and my Father lives the other side of the Ocean.

All I have to go on, from reading Polish peoples attitude to the Prussians, is that there must have been some underlying hatred that could be vented once Prussia came under Polish sovereignty after it was given to them in the a fore mentioned treaty. Maybe it wasn't nation wide but just some country areas, country folk in all nations can sometimes be a little less tolerant than Urban folk.

The area they are from is a little South of Danzig, Grandenz on the River Weichsel, sorry I do not know the Polish names.

The only documentation Ive seen refers to incidents that occurred when Germany first invaded Poland in 1939
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_%281939%29

When you are being invaded it seems to me quite reasonable that you would have some hostility towards those of that nationality, but the sheer brutality, especially against Woman and Children, babies even, does suggest there was indeed a previous and deep rooted hatred against their German speaking neighbors.

bing.com/images/search?q=bromberg+bloody+sunday&FORM=BIFD#x0y0

One thing Iam sure we are all aware of, any country, even the so called Democratic West, will always portray its own actions as being Moral and good, and demonize the enemy, to the extent that a country, any country, will try to erase its atrocities and teach its subjects the version of truth they find most appealing, We had the tread about Katyn Forest recently as an example.

I would be most interested in any sources of pure history, regardless of which side it favors, though I can understand why such might be unpalatable for some.

My own view of History is that those who rule us, can make their evil actions look moral and good in our eyes, so we keep feeding our Children's blood to their endless war machines. I condemn my own people for forcing their democracy at the point of a gun on folk just because they live differently to us, Iraq for instance.

I don't know ! Maybe his perception is skewed!
All the rights (language, schools and equal rights )of German Minority in Poland had been protected by the international treaty as well as bilateral treaty between Germany and Poland from 1922.

Every citizen could complain against the Polish state to the League of Nations.

Your family grudge maybe simply just that a grudge !
As for the "Bloody" Sunday, during the war police forces were acting against German terrorist groups in civilian guise, armed and trained by Germans, from German population in Poland i.e. traitors. Such group were being used with a little effect in 1939, the only impact that made was in Bydgoszcz were their ass were seriously kicked and after German Army took the town many Polish people were murdered ! Nazis used it for their propaganda !

After a long search, I found this info on a German site:


z-g-v.de/english/aktuelles/?id=56

Ok, it is quite possible that Germans or non-Poles in that region suffered hostilities by Poles.

Sorry about that.

But it is a common occurence when a victim takes over and takes a revenge. Poles retaliated for partitions and Prussian expulsions which had taken place before.


/wiki/Prussian_deportations

Really ? Such as ?

Thank you for that Pawian, that is most useful.
Its such a shame when peoples don't get on and a repetitive cycle of vengeance by both sides results in so much suffering, and its often instigated by a handful of people at the top who in any country will find an unsavory element to carry out their deeds whilst probably the majority of folk get on with each other and just want a peaceful life.

Ironside, I have indeed heard of the reasons given for the Bromberg massacres, however, have you seen the pictures of the mutilated bodies of Prussian infants and women?

I cannot belive they where terrorists armed and trained by Germany, Iam afraid it doesn't ring true to me.
Seems to be the same excuse for the West using to wage war with Islam, accusing them of being "terrorists".

Thanks again Pawain, your link resulted in me finding a book about this very subject, "Orphans Of Versailles: The Germans in Western Poland, 1918-1939", I managed to secure the last new copy at $65, the next available is 119 Dollars!

Heres a paste from a review, :-

After its defeat in World War I, Germany lost very important and very large chunks of territory that were claimed as Polish: Pomerania (the area around Gdansk/Danzig, called the Polish Corridor, which separated East Prussia from the rest of Germany), Poznan, and the coal-rich and heavily industrialized Upper Silesia. The new Polish government enacted policies determined to drive the German minority out of Poland so as to remove a potential fifth column; and besides, the well-to-do Germans owned a great deal of property which could be taken away and re-distributed. To achieve a German-free Poland, every form of chicanery and harassment was commplace, with occasional resort to outright violence. Poland's minortiy policies generated more complaints to the League of Nations than those of any other country, not just from Germans but from the far more numerous Ukranians as well.

I hope the authors of the book are objective and also mention the German terror against Poles on territories that Germans wanted to keep for themselves.




Yes, it was a shame.

Don't worry Pawian, even if it doesn't, I do not subscribe to the view of others that my Government is right, good, etc, the nationalistic pride that deceives youth into the trenches, I realized this at the age of 20 when I terminated my military career due to understanding that all Governments are willing and capable of committing acts of atrocities, whereas the people in general are good except when their nationalism blinds their minds and they submit themselves to the evil plans and deceptions of their masters.

The Prussians themselves suffered under the reign of the Teutonic Knights so I wouldn't for a minute consider they would have treated the Polish any better.

Even the Hohenzollern rule that took over Prussia was not greatly loved I have read, it is not in generally in the nature of such Imperialistic dynasties to put the well being of others before their own ambitions,

Even in Poland, I read the Polish Elite considered their own peasants as sub-human or slave for their own uses, how would they consider the peasants of another land?

I do not subscribe to the notion of this country verses that country, rather the ordinary folk of all lands, including Israel by the way, verses the ruling power Elite.

For someone who claims to do independent thinking thingy you are pretty naive. Picture ? Who was that woman and how she died ?
It was wartime, she could be even Polish for all you know. Do not tell me that you believe in the Nazi Germany's propaganda ?


Are you being sarcastic ? Son, that was a big mistake on your part !


Wasn't claimed, it was Polish land and if ignorant ancestors of yourself couldn't get that into their thick scull, I'm not surprised that they may have had encountered difficulties in antebellum Poland with a such attitude. Even if the country was the most tolerant country in this part of the world including Germany.


I love when people are having definite opinion about issues they have absolute no clue about !:)

Peter Rossa,I agree with what you say about the power elite of the world/

Thank you p3undone, if only more people realized that we should not be fighting each other, but we should be fighting the hidden hand that ferments such conflicts whilst they stay out of harms why, counting the money they are making and the resultant power vacuums they can fill with their own.

Its the reason I left the armed forces, I had nothing against Russians, and Iam sure Russians had nothing against me, let the "War Pigs"fight amongst themselves.

Good song,People are actually being hoodwinked.But there are a lot of people who do see this,It's not that they're blind;they're

to busy trying to survive in this manipulated economy.The elite want division and distraction they don't want the people to finally
say f***k you we've had enough unless it serves their agenda.I'm glad you decided not to be used as a drone Peter Rossa!:)

It's sad that some people can't differentiate between the powers that be and the every day citizens every where who just want to

live their lives and although we differ culturally we are alike.

Your holy bible also includes Deuteronomy in case you've forgotten. So you'll have to deal with that too.
Mine doesn't include "revelations" so I'm not concerned with what it says.

Don't worry, we haven't forgotten, and we would like to see it fulfilled, to see Gods promise to Abraham fulfilled in a way that brings peace an happiness to all, and to the glory of God, whilst your Bible might not contain Revelation, it does contain the likes of Daniel and Jeremiah from which Revelation is the same prophesies, written from a different angle.

Instead of defending the likes of the Rothschilds who would willingly sacrifices 6 million genuine Jews in order to fulfill their satanic aims, why not follow Jews such as Abraham, King David and Solomon, you have such a moral destiny still available to you, what makes you chose men over God?

Yehudi, what are you doing?! Have you forgotten Sanhedrin 59a?? "To communicate anything to a Goy about our religious relations would be equal to the killing of all Jews, for if the Goyim knew what we teach about them, they would kill us openly."

Any religious aspect is irrelevant - the people were dragged out of their homes in Poland regardless of religious belief - indeed in Bialystok a lot of Anglicans were taken away due to being either converted Jews or descendants of converts. I understand that church also has property claims going through.