The again, had the Catholic Church NOT prevented Jews from joining guilds, i.e. learning a respectable trade etc., attend university, fight in the army alongside their gentile neighbors, that is, die as well as live with them,
Well, they were from Africa in the first place and were expected to integrate in a generation or two. Why special treatment should be a norm? That the vibes I'm getting from many Jews - expectation of special treatment?
If you move to another country you either integrate and respect your host's way of doing things (especially in few generations)or move out if you don't like it.
Instead of gratitude for lax treatment in Europe (for the most part?),which allowed them to survive they wallow in vindictiveness and ungratefulness.
Equal status is more like it, particularly since we're not exactly what you'd call 'recent arrivals' to Europe; we've been there for over a thousand years. High time, don;t you think?
By the way, is Israel part of Africa?? Don't think so =>
Catholic Church NOT prevented Jews from joining guilds, i.e. learning a respectable trade etc., attend university, fight in the army alongside their gentile neighbors,
where you get your data from? never mind I got it.
Israeli Assassinations and American Presidents
"In the column, publisher Andrew Adler describes a scenario in which Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu would need to "give the go-ahead for U.S.-based Mossad agents to take out a president deemed unfriendly to Israel."
look even when they get $5 billion a year from U.S. the peace loving nation plotes terrorist acts so if Poland would payoff the kosher-nostra Poland would get squeeze time after time.
Israel's surrounded by nations who'd like nothing better than to drive her into the sea. I don't recall ANY Israeli PM ever making such pronouncements against Palestinians or other non-Jewish Arabs. Jewish extremists? Well, sure there are. There're Arab extremists though as well, and I believe they've got little Israel outnumbered! It's not exactly an equal situation.
"In the column, publisher Andrew Adler describes a scenario in which Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu would need to “give the go-ahead for U.S.-based Mossad agents to take out a president deemed unfriendly to Israel.”
Brave article, and very pragmatic. If Israel's very survival was on the table, assassinating the American President in order to get help isn't such a bad idea.
I would assume that almost every credible Special Forces have similar plans, including the UK.
If Israel's very survival was on the table, assassinating the American President in order to get help isn't such a bad idea.
No, assassinating the elected leader of a republic, that grants equal rights to all its citizens, in order to enable the survival of a racist ethnocracy, that doesn't grant equal rights to all the people that it rules, is an extremely bad idea.
By the way, is Israel part of Africa?? Don't think so =>
It is not part of Europe.
Special" treatment, Ironside????!
Yes, equal rights ? What about integration? If you stay in somebody's house and refuse to become part of the family then what right do you have to claim equal rights with the home owners?
Lyzko I'm surprised that you would type this gross generalisation that distorts Jewish history. Man there is so much to say I don't know where to start.
It seems that you like the image of Jews sitting in salons playing harpsichords below nice art only to be brutally murdered in the most horrendously industrialised system imaginable. That of course happened the tragedy is the vast majority of Jews to be murdered in the holocaust were cap makers and bottle washers people with nothing, no one to fight for them no one to remember them.
The Christian churches responsibility for Jewish persecution; well that is something else altogether it undoubtedly happened in different places at different times.
Prohibitions were placed on Jews as Catholics placed prohibitions on Protestants and vice versa in different places at different times. It's more to do with the social changes that were happening in the local area. If it were a centrally driven Catholic thing I'm sure that they would have done a better job of persecution in a rolling thunder kind of way. The Reformed Churches may also be blamed but not dammed
The fact that Jews often with names deriving from trades were quite wealthy goes some way to demonstrate your generalisation is just that.
No, assassinating the elected leader of a republic, that grants equal rights to all its citizens, in order to enable the survival of a racist ethnocracy, that doesn't grant equal rights to all the people that it rules, is an extremely bad idea.
Why is it a bad idea? If you'd actually read the article, you'd see that it was considered as a "last gasp" option - and any sane, rational country should have such plans.
Incidentally, what if the leader wasn't elected? I mean - your republic was so tinpot that Ford (who was neither elected vice president or president) became President!
Exactly, though Ford was in many ways one of the good guys. The purpose of this (offensively titled) thread is about righting old wrongs that happened to the Jews as a people because they were Jews during the holocaust- the macabre mechanics of Nazi genocide and nitpicking about the domestic policies of Israel must never be allowed to distract from that.
I don't recall ANY Israeli PM ever making such pronouncements against Palestinians or other non-Jewish Arabs.
Deeds carry more weight than pronouncements. I don't know or have an affinity for either group of people but from an unbiased perspective, Israeli policies have been slowly yet methodically eradicating the Palestinians. It is a fact whether or not you cheer-leaders admit it.
"In the column, publisher Andrew Adler describes a scenario in which Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu would need to “give the go-ahead for U.S.-based Mossad agents to take out a president deemed unfriendly to Israel.”
What would be interpreted as "unfriendly to Israel" - what would be just over the line and what wouldn't for the Israelis to go ahead with assassinating a foreign head of state, in this case the leader of the people who subsidize the existence of the Israeli state?
It is odd that such a scenario has even been planned for, is it not?
Bottom line is, bigotry cuts both ways, folks. While it's true of course that the "living in someone else's house" analogy's acceptable to a degree, blame should both legally as well as socially not only be laid the guests' doorstep if the host then becomes hostile, inflexible, irrational, and then violent. Though squatters rights don't apply to Jews, I needn't remind you that even squatters are people too, as are Gypsies, whose lifestyles may vaty greatly from that of the host society, yet should nonetheless be offered protection, if for no other reason that that they're human, and so are we. A native-born psychopath like that Norwegian chap oughtn't be judged any differently that if he were a dark-looking, foreign-born and -speaking, say, Jihaddist from Yemen etc....
Much more to add on this point, but little time now, I'm sorely afraid!
But the reality of what is happening is exactly the opposite of what you claim, how can you pretend otherwise? If squatter's rights applied then you'd be arguing those that want compensation or to reclaim property have no case. If you're referring to Israel seizure of land then you're arguing in favour of evicting as well as killing Palestinians NOW. You're completely inconsistent.
is it true that the Polish Jewish diaspora around the globe is still pestering Poland for "proper" monetary restitution/reparations (ex. $65 billion) for atrocities committed against them in WWII?
Well...for one Poland did fail to protect her own citizens of whom have as a result lost their property/lives...
" Poland did fail to protect her own citizens of whom have as a result lost their property/lives..." Poland didn't even want to let her own citizens into the country to save them from the Nazis, a decision which led to Kristalnacht.
" where did you get that from - the part that it led to Kristalnacht? " This thing called 'history', I can understand you not being familiar with it. If Poland had let her citizens in, that Nazi diplomat wouldn't have been murdered and thus there wouldn't have been Kristalnacht.
Well...for one Poland did fail to protect her own citizens of whom have as a result lost their property/lives...
Another intellectual PF giant. There was a small European event at the time called WW2. But I understand that regardless of the circumstances the priority for even non-existing Polish governmental should still be protecting Jewish citizens and their property.
Strenuous line of reasoning. Who murdered that Nazi diplomat ?Jew? \didn't exactly helped anyone by his terrorists action did he? One could assume that he was working for Nazis.
Even more plausible than placing blame squarely on the Polish doorstep.
well the wikipedia entry on Herschel Grynszpan states that Nazis planned some actions against Jews before the assassination and used it as a convenient pretext but well who knows - Hitler was a mad guy after all
Grynszpan was a fall guy, much like van der Lubbe and the Reichstag Fire. The Nazis were just looking for a patsy,as usual.
@Ironside, as far as my being INconsistent, may I remind you that it was Emerson who once said "A foolish consistency is the hobgobblin of little minds."
The Palestinian issue has ZERO to to with post-War Jewish survivors demanding from the Polish government that which is/ was rightfully theirs. In the latter instance, prior ownership i provable though (old and dog-eared, yet nonethless still ledgible) land deeds, etc... Even if records were not kept as they were, say, in Germany, proof nonethless MUST exist SOMEWHERE, perhaps a local hall of records etc.. In the former case though, Jews have been living in what is today Israel for millenia, where it's almost impossible to prove who came first, the Arabs or the Jews. When Israel was called "Judaea", the small land was overrun with so many different tribes, it's har dot positive about anything anymore. The reparations thing is all within living, at least comparatively recent, memory.
Claiming that the "Palestinian" issue has roots lost in the sands of time, and is thus not the same as the dispossession of Polish Jews in WW2, is a disingenuous ploy. The Palestinians were dispossessed in 1948. That is more recently than the Polish-Jews of WW2, and the Palestinians are still being evicted from their homes by Zionists today.
The Palestinians were dispossessed in 1948. That is more recently than the Polish-Jews of WW2,
And less recently than the Jews who left Poland in 1956 to 1959 and those who were thrown out of Poland in 1968, both groups still can not get their property back. Interestingly, the 1968 anti-semitic campaign was described as an 'anti-zionist' campaign. Does that phrase remind anybody of any posters here?
