Who is blaming Jews all I am is stating facts: 150,000 Jews serve in Hitler army fact, Jews engaged in economical boycott of German products and called it war a fact, Jews discrimination is a fact, Jews hijack holocaust is a fact and Jews throw labels and insults at people to distort truth a fact.
I do not condone a terror or what happen all I am saying two wrongs does not make it right, all people want essentially the same thing ( peace, work, raise children and retire in peace ) so if you are angry what happen look at the causes of it if you are angry at what is happing look at causes of it and look who is manipulating events of the world and your country and who profits from it, I am assuring that common people are being played by the state, church.
Sure you know what you're saying, Marku? You've simply regirgitated racist bilge you've heard/read in rags, either for (comic) effect, or, because you are an ignoramus!
A shame none of the "fact" you state are even near reality! They're merely myths drummed up by other bigots at worst, or attention getters at best:-)LOL
Let me ask you this much. What in heaven's name would be the purpose of anyone, Jew or gentile, making up the Holocaust, twisting "facts" etc..???? Attention???!
There were some Catholics who were prejudiced against Jews just like there were Jews who were prejudiced against Catholics.
But overall a Catholic nation like Poland has been tolerant to Jews and gave more rights and opportunities to Jews then anyone else. This is why the great rabbi Moses Isserles said "If it were not for Poland, the existence of the tribe of Israel would have been UNBEARABLE". There is a reason why most of the world's Jews CHOSE to live in Catholic Poland for 1000 years.
If Jews felt Catholic nations like Poland were unfair to Jews, then Jews should have chose another country to live in for a long time. Maybe Jews when they came out of Israel should have chose to live in nearby African/Arab/Muslim countries instead of traveling all the way to Poland?
Money and power just look at the original question on the post. Why would anyone pass the laws to put people in jail for questioning holocaust if they do not want to monopolize and steer the discussion in certain way.
As yourself why would Gaza Palestinians not allow to fish farther than two miles of shores, it would not have anything to do with natural gas fields discover of a coast, so it is money and power again.
I do not know who said this “ history books are written by victors “ but is sure is truth.
But overall a Catholic nation like Poland has been tolerant to Jews and gave more rights and opportunities to Jews then anyone else.
How does Jedwabne look this time of year? Poland hasn't GIVEN anyone ANYTHING. There have been Catholic Poles, and there have been Jewish Poles. There have surely even been Buddhist Poles living among you. This isn't a matter of one religions' largess, it's a matter of how civilization has been made of different peoples with mixed mores and backgrounds since the very beginning. You aren't a "Catholic country". You are a country with a lot of Catholics.
Jews were "invited" into various European countries, such as Poland, the Holy Roman Empire, etc.. and didn't simply land there on their own volition!! They were also used historically as a 'political football', a convenient bargaining chip when they were needed, only to be maligned, slaughtered and driven out when they no longer were of any use to the reigning Catholic nobility. To suggest that Poland was more tolerant is simply balderdash!! A tolerant country was Denmark or Sweden. Bulgaria too came to the succor of Jews during WWII. Compare them with Poland (on the whole), Hungary or the Baltic States.
Bulgaria too came to the succor of Jews during WWII. Compare them with Poland (on the whole), Hungary or the Baltic States.
now who came to help Poland durring WW2 sure was not Jews or I am sorry they came to help with red army and the NKVD by sending Poles to Siberia and they came again
and killed more Poles and Bulgaria was a German allied and helped Jews that is rich, edit
" Why would anyone pass the laws to put people in jail for questioning holocaust"
Because the more bigots lie about it not happening, the greater the chances of the foolish staying to believe them and thus the greater the chances of it happening again. Although I understand that some people, such a ironside and marek, think the only thing wrong with the last time was that it missed out some Jews.
not allow to fish farther than two miles of shores, it would not have anything to do with natural gas
No, it would not.
Jews were "invited" into various European countries, such as Poland, the Holy Roman Empire, etc..
Very true. The only country in Europe never, ever, to have any anti-Semitic laws is Scotland. The situation of Jews in Poland should be viewed in the light of individuals such as Marek11111, Joe Pilsudski and others. On here they're just basement dwellers spouting racism, denying the fact of the Shoah, repeating outrageous lies abot conspiracies - even on more than one occasion repeating the 'blood libel'. In 19th Century villages that type of person sadly had sharp implements.
Is it really OK for Harry to accuse two forum members of being genocidal? Isn't this flaming?
Why not behave with a little dignity for a change?
Sure you know what you're saying, Marku? You've simply regirgitated racist bilge you've heard/read in rags, either for (comic) effect, or, because you are an ignoramus!
No. I cannot state for certain if what he said is completely true but there was no racism in what you responded too. The irony seems to be you've done some regurgitating in attempts to refute the information he claims is true - the attempted deification of the Jews. The easiest thing to do is keep calls of "racism!" out of it because that informs everyone else that you don't really have anything important to say. Just factually refute what he says to be true and then you can parade yourself the victor.
Jewish people, like all other people have done some mighty crappy things to their fellow man. The fact that many European Jews were killed in the cruelest of ways, sadly, doesn't make up for any wrongs committed by other Jewish people unto others. People are people and people are quite often shite to one another out of fear or greed, Jews included.
Poland hasn't GIVEN anyone ANYTHING. There have been Catholic Poles, and there have been Jewish Poles. There have surely even been Buddhist Poles living among you. This isn't a matter of one religions' largess
You've got no clue what you are talking about. Poles are Western Slavic people, who created country called Poland +10 centuries ago. Jews are Semitic people, who started moving into Poland in large numbers in late Middle Ages. And yes, not so long ago classification (also legal) of people by their religion was a norm in Europe.
How does Jedwabne look this time of year? Poland hasn't GIVEN anyone ANYTHING.
Oh OK so you are are going to use SELECTED negative events in Polish history to define Polish people? Great! That's what Bigots do.
So by your logic, people should define Jews by all the bad Jews? Like Stalin's Jews and the millions of people they helped Stalin kill including many Poles??
So how are STALIN'S JEWS looking this time of year for you??
So what about all the positive things that Poland did for Jews?? Like GIVING JEWS A PLACE TO LIVE where Jews had more rights then any other country for 1000 years??? Oh that's right, a guy like you only takes for granted anything positive Poland has done for Jews. I would say a nation giving Jews a place to LIVE when every other country in the world is rejecting a Jews is a pretty big thing. Don't you think? This is why the great rabbi Moses Isserles said "If it were not for Poland, the existence of the tribe of Israel would have been UNBEARABLE". Why don't you acknowledge that? Or is it just too much fun for you to find fault with Poland and bash Poland???
So overall, was Poland a good country for Jews or a bad country for Jews to live in for 1000 years? If your answer is Poland was a bad country for Jews to live in, then Jews must be one of the most retarded people on earth to CHOOSE to live in Poland for 1000 years and not leave Poland. Its not like Poland was forcing Jews to live inside its borders. You do know that? Right????
Jews were "invited" into various European countries. Compare them with Poland (on the whole), Hungary or the Baltic States
So why was there an explosion in the population of Jews in Poland and not in Denmark and Sweden over 1000 years?
You do realize that people vote with their feet? Normal people CHOOSE to live in countries that treat them better then in other countries. Normal people if they're treated badly in a country, LEAVE that country.
No doubt Poland was not a perfect country. But if Poland was as bad as you say towards Jews, WHY did Jews continue to CHOOSE to live in Poland for 1000 years, which is far more then any other country???
If Jews felt Poland was treating Jews poorly, WHY didn't these Jews CHOOSE to live in these other countries that you say tolerated Jews better???????????????
Easier said than done! Not every country would accept Jews. After all, England banished them for three hundred years until Cromwell invited them back! He, like many other leaders, was hardly a "friend" of the Jews, he was simply a practical man who realized that Jews could be of benefit to society, just as in Turkey during the Ottoman Empire. Were the Sulimans "Jew-lover"?? Scarcely. But they too realized they needed a merchant class as well in order to remain competitive!
^you didn't really answer the question. The question pertained to why a group of people chose to live in one country (not their ancestral homeland) for centuries if it was so bad. You just kind of danced around the question and made some comments about England and Turkey at points in history without actually tying those comments in to a specific argument.
Oh, but I did Foreigner! England is an example of a country which eventually (when forced, naturally) granted Jews the right to reside in England after some hiatus, as mentioned. Turkey and certain other countries, notably Spain, also allowed Jews to enter and live, basically free from persecution until such time as, in the latter case, persecution was to the aristocracy's benefit, This is called the Spanish Inquisition!
I most certainly DID tie things together, in a nice neat bow in fact, with pink ribbons:-)
I respectfully disagree. You presented 2 examples of the many nations throughout Europe, Africa and Asia in which Jews were, for a time, unwelcome and made it out as if Poland was their only option for 1000 years or so.
I most certainly DID tie things together, in a nice neat bow in fact, with pink ribbons:-)
I think this is might be one of those cases in which the writer has filled in the blanks mentally but did expand in actual writing what seemed more eloquent in their mind.
Isn't it therefore possible that you missed my point, i.e. that you didn't understand what I was driving at?? I mentioned only a few European countries (excluding Scotland, Wales or Ireland for obvious reasons) which were "friendly" towards Jews because they had so precious few of them. In Denmark, for instance, a small, still mostly homogeneous country, though not like Iceland, Jews were thought rather exotic. This is what a Danish friend from Kobenhavn told me. He said that certain family names, e.g. Melchior, are known to be Jewish, but the Danes look upon them as merely non-Christian Danes, the SAME as they are, only who attend a "different church". I though to myself "How refreshingly different! This is how it should be." After all, they were granted citizenship long ago, they speak Danish (NOT Yiddish!!), they may look slightly swarthier, but they seemed to fit in.
Almost utopian now, isn't it. Anti-semitic? Denmark? Prejudiced certainly, but not, it appeared against Jews. Though the Kong Christian myth is just that, the story goes that a local Nazi, a certain "Dr." Frits Claussen during WWII tried running on a pro-Nazi platform, like Norway's Premier Quisling, but was voted down roundly as 'un-Danish' in spirit. Furthermore, the Danish national hero for many years since then has been the pastor/author Kaj Munk, who defied the Gestapo by rallying fellow Danes around him, Danish Lutherans, NOT to merely to their Sunday morning mass, but literally, to take up arms against the Nazi foe, with their own lives, if necessary.
I mist up just thinking about such undaunted (AND THOROUGHLY DOCUMENTED) courage.
Isn't it therefore possible that you missed my point, i.e. that you didn't understand what I was driving at??
The problem is that you didn't write to completion what you were driving at, nor have you yet.
In Denmark, for instance, a small, still mostly homogeneous country, though not like Iceland, Jews were thought rather exotic. This is what a Danish friend from Kobenhavn told me.
So based on what one Danish person claims, you've made up a complete historical narrative- you do see the error in that, don't you? Why don't you just tell me what conclusion I'm supposed to draw from your post so I can be on my way?
Furthermore, the Danish national hero for many years since then has been the pastor/author Kaj Munk, who defied the Gestapo by rallying fellow Danes around him, Danish Lutherans, NOT to merely to their Sunday morning mass, but literally, to take up arms against the Nazi foe, with their own lives, if necessary.
And?What exactly are you trying to prove because in wartime Poland we have had hundreds of Polish Kaj's Munk's.
Though the Kong Christian myth is just that, the story goes that a local Nazi, a certain "Dr." Frits Claussen during WWII tried running on a pro-Nazi platform, like Norway's Premier Quisling, but was voted down roundly as 'un-Danish' in spirit.
You mean he was voted down in occupied Danmark?You are ridiculous.
If you know your history,zgłos się, you'll know that the Danish Resistance (Den danske modstandsbevaegelse) was one of the strongest in Schandinavia and indeed DID vote down the swine Claussen, even during tthe Occupation!!! That's what make Munk and others like him so remarkable.Naturally, Germany had 'Die Weisse Rose' with Hans and Sophie Scholl, both executed and Poland had resistance fighters such as Leopold Socha, yet Denmark remains unique. Furthermore, Poland is sdaly unique in that ONLY in Poland, not even post-War Hungary or Rumania under Ceascescu, did Jews returning to their villages get attacked and killed!
Somehow, I couldn't even imagine a post-War Danish or Swedish Jew returning to their city (most though concentrated in the capital, not the countryside!) and being greeted with "What? You again?! You mean they didn't gas you yet?" The latter was reported in among other countries, Austria and Poland. This is not to say that MANY a brave Polish farmer didn't also risk his and his familiy's life to hide Jews during the occupation period. I know many such examples personally.
Furthermore, Foreigner, the conclusion you're "supposed to draw" is that rather than Jews "pestering" the Polish government, unfortunately, the Polish, as the German, Austrian as well as other complicite governments, OWE the Jews the restitution they seek. It's not pestering someone who did you wrong to ask for recompense, is it? The Jews aren't pestering, the Polish government is merely recalcitrant in payment!!
Really, it's even MORE about the principle; somebody steals from you hook-line-and-sinker, you ought to get it back, be it money, land, property, books etc... That's what's at issue here. Anything else is merely a smokescreen:-)
You;re comparing biblical primogenture with people living in their own house all their lives untl the Nazis kicked them out from that which was rightfully theirs. You're comparing apples and oranges, we say in English.
You;re comparing biblical primogenture with people living in their own house all their lives untl the Nazis kicked them out from that which was rightfully theirs.
that is the problem you or Jews think they ones they own something ones they always have rights to it just because they wrote the book.
lets see your statement " people living in their own house all their lives untl the Nazis kicked them out from that which was rightfully theirs " or I could say " Palestinians living in their own house all their lives untl the Jews kicked them out from that which was rightfully theirs"
Apples and oranges, once again. In Poland, in Germany in many other countries Jews had been living prior ro WWII in a semi-"separate-but-equal" socail relationship with their gentile neighbors. All this was ruptured soon after Hitler seized control. Jews whose families had been living in the SAME district for centuries were suddenly evicted and forced to move, never to return, as their neighborhood was 'Aryanized'.
You're entitled to your own opinions, Marku, but NOT to your own facts.
Archives - 2010-2019 / History / Why are Jews pestering Poland for "proper" WW2 monetary restitution/reparations?
