Why did Hitler kill so many Jews in Poland?

Until 1941 there was no big plan of extermination since they looked upon Soviets as Jews too so they tried to keep a low profile (which is ridiculous to me, but hey that was their ideology xD)

Later on when they understood that the African campaign won't go well the Extermination camps started to go full full (they planned originally to ship all the Jews to Madagascar)

Their sick ideology was based on the principle that communism was wrong and an great evil, also since there was a lot of Jews in communist parties the Jew hatred was combined together. I am not an expert but it should grasp the big bicture

I have no obsession at all...I am merely a poster in a 'chat room' like yourself...I simply bring up points for discussion...I am, and never was, an admirer of Hitler, since I am not a racialist nor do I have 'ambition' like he did.

I simply stated that the result of WWII was a victory for the Communist Soviet Union (creation of atheist Jews), and the establishment of the Zionist state in Palestine...This in the European theatre...This was brought about by the deaths of millions of men and boys from the Christian nations of the US, Britain, Canada, Poland and more on the Allied side.

In Asia, the result was the dropping of atomic bombs on and the consequent subjugation of Japan...Along with this came the triumph of Communism in the world's most populous nation, China.

Now, what do I say here that is not an indesputable fact?...And where is the obsession?

I was not saying you were a fan of Hitler or that you have ambition.
I was asking you if you thought that Hitler saw Jews or the stories about Jews that you do?
Do you share his 'concerns' about Jews?
Where does your personal views of the Jews come from? and why do you think they are responsible for everything?


Your 'theory' is that the Jews got Hitler to kill millions of Jews to force the surviving Jews to create the state of Israel? and the Jews were the creators of the Communist Soviet Union?

That the mastermind Jews all sat around a big table and discussed how to do this all and did it but only by murdering millions of Jews and others.

When it comes to plans, not exactly a humdinger now is it.


You have just shown it and it is pretty much all you talk about.
You even go to and quote the 'StromFront' forum, a well known white nationalist, supremacist, neo-Nazi hate site to further your obsession about the Jews.

Well, these are interesting questions.

Concerns about Jews?...All my Jewish friends are pretty down to earth and are not involved in any kind of plots or anything like that...What I get concerned about is the Israelis having so much influence in our country and government, through what is called the 'Jewish Lobby' and various Jewish organizations...Many of these Jews are dual Israeli-American citizens, and the Israeli part comes first for them...Big media power too (too much)...The Jews I know are all American as can be.

I think Hitler's views on Jewish people may have been shaped by his experiences in Vienna, where he studied art, but was frustrated in his attempts to make a living at it (He was an excellent artist, BTW)...The Jews in Vienna had much prominence in the arts, newspapers etc and business, and Hitler may have been dismayed by this...But remember, Hitler may have been part Jewish himself...We can only speculate.

My personal views I described above: I just look at people as people: "Jew' doesn't come in to it unless the other person injects it for some reason...I do feel concern about 'special interest groups' that wield power, if you get my drift.

I don't feel 'Jews are the cause of everything'...That would be making them God, would it not?...They would probably love it!

Why do you believe it's true?
From a forensic standpoint, what evidence is there to support the allegation that Hitler "killed so many Jews", as you put it?

Go to the site of the Sobibor death camp and you can see bone fragments all over the place.

I am unaware of a site for Sobibor, and if bone fragments are present can they be proven to be Jews?

Would the caretakers of Sobibor allow forensic examination, or must we simply take someone's word for it?

The most common explanations of Hitler's hatred towards Jews before WW1 are:

1. it was a Jewish doctor who brought him the news that his beloved mother was going to die from breast cancer;
2. Apparantly he had at one point a Jewish landlord in Vienna which wasn't the nicest of persons and eventually kicked him out when he couldn't pay the rent anymore;

3. he needed somebody or some group to blame for his own failure: he saw rich Jews in Vienna living their rich life while he was living on the street and when he started to attend the readings of the Vienna mayor Karl Lueger;

4. his love for the music of Richard Wagner, whos writings and views were highly anti-semitic.
5. He always thought (incorrectly, btw) that his dad was Jewish, or at least half-Jewish, and his dad was a rampant tyrant, beating him up all the time.

This would have been not such a big deal as many ppl thought this way at the time. Yet nearly nobody came to actually act upon these ideas. Hitler could and did. Why is this? Also there are some common explanations for this:

1. first of all, he came to power of course and Hitler is proof of what happens when a psychopath comes to power (if he hadn't come to power, he probably would've killed somebody);

2. during WW1 he survived several gas attacks. It is a known fact that soldiers who had to endure gas attacks became psychotics due to the chemicals that got into their brains. Hitler was no exception to that. Only difference was of course that he came to power.

But generally it's quite a mystery why Hitler became such rabiate anti-semite. He apparently was a very sensitive boy during childhood who even had Jewish friends with whom he played.

But by far the biggest mystery is why the architect (or main executor so to say) of the Endlösung was an anti-semite and fanatical Nazi, Heinrich Himmler. There is nothing in this man's childhood or youth that gives any explanation for his evil and cold calculated anti semitism. The only one could lie in the remark of his father who once said about young Heinrich Himmler: "that boy is born to become a criminal - he has a very evil streak".

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

Why come out with all that convoluted clutching at straws?

He equated the Jews with the Jewish-dominated Bolshevik Party of 1918-22 - the years when he formed his political ideas.

The Commies, led by Jews, tried to take over Germany and failed thans to right-wing paramilitaries.

Simple. The he tried to rationalise all this with science. As we know with the global warming brigade, scientist will do what they're told as long as there's money involved.

very true.. and, strange thing is that the money itself is an invention of scientists of the day. now, they are prisoners of their own product. today, scientists (universities and their economy departments) and their kids governments are trying to keep the money as valuable item, but, we know the value of central banks is not money, but, the gold. these mean scientists and governments on one side and central banks on other side and they dont trust each others.

returning to topic.. hitler was a poor guy who was used by the wealthy religion centers (in this case, church.) poor people should have been grateful to rich jews if they were leading socialist movement as it means they wanted to share their wealths with poor ordinary folks as they wanted to protect themselves as they were minority.. ordinary folks are idiots.

who so many...?? because poland was the center for the worlds Jewish population
From what i read I think rejection by the Viennese Art School was a leading factor in his anti-semitism forming.
anti-semitism was ripe in that time from germany to poland to ireland to switzerland to sweden. switzerland co-operated by allowing hundred of thousands of italian jews to go through swiss territory on trains. ireland refused visas to people who later died in camps. after hitler died the irish president actually went to the german embassy to give condolences!!!

and despite all the killing dont forget the anti jewish pograms in poland following the war conducted by the poles which murdered several hundred of the several thousand left (out of 3.3 million)

today, it is ironic that the basis and success of cracow's tourism is auschwitz and schindlers list which has led to cracow now becoming a top ten city destination. visit the kazimierz and its jewish restaurants etc (not run by jews though... would it be more attractive if it were to tourists!!!)

so let us not forget what europe did to the jewish people.

some thoughts only.

my guess is most of businesses in poland are still owned by jews. especially in silesia region, neighbour to germany, where many jews lived. i know of a very old company or two in central part of poland owned by jews. without jews, poland would not be so special country in europe.

About a thousand of the 300.000 left, to be precise. And about 2% of the total victims of post-war violence in Poland. Undoubtly Jews were at a greater risk, since it was believed that no one would be searching for them, but don't make it sound as if it was a miracle for a Jew to survive in post-war Poland.

Because he had Parkinsons and his finger got stuck on the "0" key on his typewriter.

"Coming for a pint Adolf ? "

" Cool, I'll just finish this letter authorising the death of 60 jews"

Nope, because before WW1 he already had anti-semite tendencies.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

The kielce pogram has gained significant media coverage in the UK/Ireland. this reference to the pogram below says enough about being a miracle to survive in post WWII poland...your statistics from 300000 to several thousand current jewish residents speaks louder than words.. could it be called ethnic cleansing???

"Sporadic public anti-Jewish disturbances or riots were enticed by spread of false blood libel accusations against Jews in a dozen Polish towns - Krakow, Kielce, Bytom, Bialystok, Bielawa, Czestochowa, Legnica, Otwock, Rzeszów, Sosnowiec, Szczecin, Tarnow [22][23][24] The Kraków pogrom of August 11, 1945, was the first anti-Jewish riot in postwar Poland.[25][26] Rumours of alleged attempt by Jewish woman to kidnap and murder Polish child and alleged discovery of thirteen or even eighty corpses of Christian children that supposedly had been found in Kupa Synagogue served as a pretext to start the pogrom.[27] During the riot, Jews were attacked in Kazimierz, and other parts of Old Town, resulting in one death. Fire was set in Kupa Synagogue.

[edit] Kielce pogrom
Main article: Kielce pogrom
A pogrom (the causes of which are still somewhat controversial) [28], coupled with the ritual murder accusations, erupted in Kielce on July 4, 1946.[29] The rumour that Polish boy was kidnapped but managed to escape from Jewish captivity, and that other Polish children had been ritually murdered by the Jews ignited violent public reaction directed at the Jewish Center.[29] Actions against Jewish residents of Kielce was provoked by units of the communist militia and Soviet controlled Polish Army who confirmed the rumors of the kidnapped Polish child. The police and soldiers were also the first to fire shots at the Jews giving civilians a pretext to join the fray.[30] Pogrom in Kielce resulted in 37 people being murdered and many more injured[4][24] but the number of victims does not reflect committed atrocities. Kielce pogrom was a turning point for the postwar history of Polish Jews where many concluded that there was no future for Jews in Poland.[31] Soon after, Communist authorities allowed Polish Jews to leave Poland without visas or exit permits.[32] and Jewish emigration from Poland increased dramatically.[33]"

so the peace loving Jews emigrated to England, united states and Israel.
in Israel where the peace loving Jews started on exterminating population Palestinians to create more living space for them self's and now they want the reparation from Poland because Germans took their houses away from them during ww2.

I say we as Poles have to pay them as they only nation that survived holocaust, we need to give them double the reparation and maybe then they will forgive us that Germans killed them in concentrations camps.

Just a question: why can't you Poles accept things you've done wrong in the past WITHOUT saying: "yeah, but THEY..." ? It sounds so childish, you know.

>^..^<

M-G (nearly has to go)

Because of incidents like this?

Witold Pilecki, one of Polands greatest heroes who risked his life on numerous occations and in the end paid the ultimate price, by jewish hands, for trying to rescue them during the German occupation. He even volunteered being sent to Auschwitz undercover where he set up resistance groups and where he gathered information about the ill-treatment and murders of poles and jews. He escaped and sent his intelligence report to the allies, who refused to believe him and left the Auschwitz camp unscratched. Maybe you should blame them a bit more for what happened there, after all they KNEW.

The same people he tried to save from torture and certain death, put a bullet in his head after the war as, "thanks". How can you trust a people that will do this to you?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witold_Pilecki

"Ten days later, on May 25, 1948, Witold Pilecki was executed at Warsaw's Mokotów Prison on ulica Rakowiecka (Rakowiecka Street)[2] by Staff Sergeant Piotr Smetanski. Nicknamed by the prisoners the "Butcher of the Mokotow Prison," Smetanski is believed to have been paid 1,000 Polish Zloty for each execution he carried out. Smetanski emigrated from Poland to Israel in 1968."

Willing executioners of Poland's finest men escapes to Israel...no trial for this man.

Who gave the order to kill Pilecki?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Romkowski

"General Roman Romkowski (born Natan Grinszpan-Kikiel) (May 22, 1907 - July 1, 1961) was a Polish communist, and second in command (deputy minister) in Poland's Ministry of Public Security (MBP) during the 1940s and the beginning of the 1950s. A Jew, he was responsible for the workings of departments: Ist (counter-espionage), VIIth (espionage), Xth security in PPR/PZPR, and more."

and;

"Józef Różański (b. Józef Goldberg) (1907, Warsaw - 1981, Warsaw) was a communist activist in Poland, member of Soviet NKVD and Polish communist Ministry of Public Security of Poland. Born into a Polish Jewish family in Warsaw, active in the Communist Party of Poland before WWII, he joined NKVD and later, Polish communist security apparatus. Involved in torturing opponents of the state (including anti-communist activists and more liberal communists), he gained notoriety as one of the most brutal secret police interrogators. He personally administered torture to Witold Pilecki, one of the Righteous Among Nations.[1] Arrested in 1953, and sentenced in 1957 to 15 years in prison, Różański was released in 1964, having served seven years."

Pilecki was REPEATEDLY TORTURED befor the "trial", and then executed with some of his friends and martyrs of the polish nation. Do you think the execution was carried out with dignity? Do you think, Pilecki and his friends were given time to talk to their families and have a dignified end to their lives? From what we know executions in the communist controlled areas were swiftly done, without any dignity. Bodies dumped into pits or holes and then just filled up.

"His place of burial has never been found. He is thought to have been buried in an unmarked grave near Warsaw's Powązki Cemetery's garbage dump."

THIS IS WHY I DON'T GET ALL EMOTIONAL EVERY TIME A JEW CRIES HIS TEARS ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST. I save my tears for my own hero's and my own kind first.

Maregaea, there are hundreds, if not thousands of stories like this, not with highly decorated and brave soldiers like Pilecki and his men, but with ordinary men and women, young and old, who sacrificed their lives for a free Poland, to not only save themselves, but also the jews. After the war, this is what they were repaid with.

Dariusz

There comes a point when things become an unhealthy obsession. Have you thought about counselling to work through your issues?

Because they were taking over the world - according to Hitler and his cronies.
"They have taken in Anglo-Saxon and Soviet Union, and only Germans stand in their way"
Killing of Jews was seen or presented as self-defence.
Why Poland? Logistic dictated it! Technically it wasn't in Poland:)

I'm sorry facts get's in the way, Jonni, I'll try and not use to much of it in the future and talk about the weather and more important stuff like that. I know you don't like it when people start looking at all sides of the story, and actually try to find out WHY things happen, instead of just "letting things be".

Can't you post more about dogturds and post some more pics or sausages in mashed potatoes? I bet that is more interesting for people in here.

Unhealthy obsession with history...hehe. If you don't like the discussion, go to another thread, Jonni.

Oh, here's another link Jonni, I won't mention the word Is***l or J*w, which you obviously don't like and you can maybe send the people behind this page the same advise you sent me? Do you have any other names I can use instead, so you don't get so upset? That is very "1984" of you.

doomedsoldiers.com/liquidation-of-henryk-flame-bartek-unit.html

Dariusz

Jonni,
this one is a gonner.

Comes from a person who who say's on their profile that their country/city is "Mother earth"...

and manages to write this in the "mosque in Warszawa" thread....

"what makes you think that 11 000 Muslims living in W-wa are not normal Seanus?"

Maybe you should come down to "Mother earth" first, Aphrodisiac...

Dariusz

Indeed. Very unhealthy and a one track mind.

what? Do you live on another planet then me? Mother Earth is the common denominator for all of us, what is so strange about that.


what is so strange about that? Nobody was interested in Muslims until the Mosque issue, while 11 000 Muslims have been living in W-wa for years. Besides, you have taken my answer out of context, but I am not expecting you to do anything else. You are obsessive about things, that is all and it borders on something unhealthy as Jonni mentioned. I agree with him.

Native Indians had this custom that when somebody had a complaint, they were allowed to share it with the rest of community 3 times. After that, nobody would listen. That was the rule. Complaining is counterproductive because it does not solve anything.

every time somebody is trying to have a discussion, or differs in opinion, you protest with more links.

PS. please TELL me how your post relates to the topic, please TELL me.

That's not the point that I wanted to make. The point was that whenever some attrocity (doesn't matter if it's against the Jews or any other ppl - although it's mostly against this group anyway) is mentioned, Poles start saying "you hate Poland, did you know what THEY did?" It's like a little child that doesn't want to take responsibility for its actions. Face it, it's not the fault of the Jews that the Kielce Pogrom took place. It's solely the fault of the Polish. So far any past pogroms. It's time to leave the past behind and move forward to a bright future. A future only pssbl when PL FINALLY leaves the past the past and stops whining how bad they have been treated in the past. Nowadays they are treated pretty well, so there is no reason at all to complain or to nag about sth that has happened 2000 years ago, ok?

Can't you see that this constant nagging about the past and the Jews, other countries in Europe will get sick of it? It blocks your own progression. Learn from the past, enjoy today and look forward to a bright future as my grandmother (yes, she was Jewish) used to say and STOP WHINING ABOUT THE PAST. Now, be a good boy and get me some decaf coffee, will ya?

:)

>^..^<

M-G (decaf)

If you keep on coming back with this lie, I cannot take you seriously....

It seems that there is much you are unaware of. Go to the Sobibor site: it has no fences and no caretakers (although there is a bloke who runs the museum and I assume there must be a part-time groundsman). You can easily pick up bone chips yourself and there's nobody to stop you doing it. I'm no scientist but you might be able to get DNA from the bone chips and compare them to samples from Israel.

MareGaea
I agree with you about Kielce Pogrom but just look at Mulsie's post. This guy is actually saying that nearly all of 300.000 Holocaust survivors in Poland were murdered! Defensiveness is a natural reaction to such ridiculous accusations.