Should Poland be given ANY credit for ALLOWING Jews into Poland for 1000 years?

if by people you mean family, i would too - no doubt.

Rybnik,I would also.

Niki, 4 of my great grandparent were murdered in the Holocaust, both of my grandfathers fought as soldiers on the front lines, both getting high medals for their service. My dad and uncles served in the combat branches of the military, I was in the US Marine Corps and the US ARNG, and with all of this I still do not fault Polish soldiers who were drafted into the SS. No "normal" parent would tell them to go and die! Talk is cheap!

you know p3, if it was a question between I live or my daughter lives, I'll die. That much I do know. But, to proclaim, that I'd die "for my people", how can anyone say that. It rings flat (to be kind).

I don't have any children,but I damn well could have died protecting my younger sister once.The thing that I was saying to Nicki,was you can't

know what you'd do when confronted with some of the choices that Poles and Jews had to make during WW2.She's adamant that she would hold fast to her convictions.So I'll agree to disagree with her on that note.

for sure

It's like when people go to war for their country. Some people will sacrifice themselves for the welfare of strangers. It's the same mentality people who enlist in the military have, or first responders. They know what they do is risky but are willing to take that risk to save others.

maybe......I dunno

I didn't say that I'd leave them to die alone--I'd go with them. I lost relatives in the Holocaust myself, and one of my great-granduncles was KIA--though 18 years passed as he died of his wounds. Also, Jews are a family--so given that my people are my family, I'd die for them.

The SS didn't have conscripts soldiers in it.

They were conscripted into the Wehrmacht,weren't they?

As Ive read some of your posts you seem like a nice guy who only did a tiny mistake so ill be gentle :)

1. SS didn't draft they had volunteers if I am not mistaken
2. There were no Poles in the SS (Unless you count a handful of individuals with Polish ancestry in Germany or Polonized Lithuanians which later on were recruited by the Polish army when they were captured at the end of the war tiny bit controversial, just so you know the Polish army didn't have it easy recruting as their homeland was... ye occupied) Unless Harry has been lying to me >:(

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poles_in_the_Wehrmacht

Here is some information about the shizzle

My bad, it was the West Ukrainians that were drafter/volunteered into Waffen SS. I'll be honest, I'm not sure what the military arrangement was between the Germans and the Poles. I saw an hour long episode on German occupation of Poland and remember hearing how one german general was upset at the German General who oversaw Poland for what they called "Aryanizing" of poles (don't know how they Aryanized people, or what exactly that meant).

"Aryanizing" was done for example by stealing polish children with fair skin and hair and having them adopted by german families.

On this subject. Something I noticed, I might be wrong, but compared to surrounding populations (Ukrainians, Belorussians, Czech, Slovaks) I noticed that Poles tend to have a higher % of people with dark hair. I always wondered if this was possibly a result of the large Jewish population of Poland through out the ages? Mixing is almost a certainty that happened. I even know of many instances of where Jews converted to Catholicism.

OMG.Learn some basics before you post such a nonsense.Even Hitler considered Poles to be Aryans.When Germans talked about ghettos they were talking "Jewish side" and "Aryan side".Geez.Polish children were GERMANIZED.On a side note,often people say that Hitler hated Slavs and considered them subhumans.This is another nonsense.Hitler specifically hated Poles (and he had a reason) but had no problem with Czechs,Slovaks,Bulgarians and Ukrainians.

Case in point, my family during the pogroms.

When did that take place? What year?
Was it during the Russian, Austrian and German/Prussian occupations? If so then Poland was not in charge of the pogroms. Did they convert in the time frame between the two world wars?

Well technically you could be right as they probably were Polish citizens before the war.


That's the thing, there was no arrangements. There wasn't any party or organization that considered itself Polish that co-operated with the Germans on a military level. Only incident that one could think of is when the Germans deliberately dropped some weapons and ammo for some local Polish partisans. How wise that was is an other thing but the red army was on the approach. The Germans hoped they would use it towards the reds.


I think he maybe meant Germanizing? There were several projects to divide the Poles and make them not co-operate with the Jews. Goralenvolk... Stroop when complaining about Jews hanging ip Polish flags etc during their Ghetto uprising. Other countires most people were passive and a few very much against. While in Poland yes there were many passive people but, those passive people. Had they a chance just like an ticket controller on an tramwaj that noticed a person carrying a weapon and obviously he was part of the resistance he gladly didn't ask for his ticket.

Poles stayed Poles and no matter what Utopia the German high command wanted to create, they failed in every aspect.

I don't exactly know. The sad part is that my granddad and dad are useless in helping me find out (They refuse to admit that we're Jews.), and my family was living in Lipsk nad Biebrzą at the time. If you can help, their baptismal names were Julian Jan "Feliks" and Aleksjondria Alicja. She was born a Margiewicz (Morgiewicz) Andrulewicz, he a Daniłowicz Chernetski (who changed his name to "Czarniecki" and "Czarnecki").

I do know basic facts - son of my great-anut was one of these "janczar" children, and the children of my mother's best friend also. Didn't you notice that I put "aryanizing" in brackets?

Well it's quite important really, otherwise you won't get a clear picture

Jan Czar? Is that a reference to my family? If it were, it'd be useful.


My guess is 1902-1904. He immigrated the first time as Julian Laczinsky (under his grandmother's maiden name, no doubt) and Julian Zernetzky the second time.

If even your granddad wasn't involved in converting then almost certainly any conversions occurred during the era of Polish partitions. That's when Poles were not in charge of their own country. The probability is that your family changed religions during the Russian occupation.

I know that they changed it during the pogroms, but only so as to live as Anusim. Pop-Pop is still quite involved in keeping (if I may) the Anusidut or Anusidat (however you say "Crypto Jewishness") alive and well in our family--he wants to ring my neck for finding out that we're Jewish.

Anyway:

- Laczinsky
- Zernetzky
- Naturalization 1
- Naturalization 2

no, it's not. Janczar [in engl.:janissary] -The Janissaries were an ottoman army, recruited of non-Turkish children, notably Balkan Christians; Jews were never subject to devşirme, nor were children from Turkic families. In early days, all Christians were enrolled indiscriminately; later, those from Albania, Greece, Bosnia, Serbia and Bulgaria were preferred.[4][5]. The Janissaries were kapıkulları (sing. kapıkulu), "door servants" or "slaves of the Porte", neither free men nor ordinary slaves (Turkish: köle).[6]

The selected by Germans children often were called "janczars". Read a book by Alojzy Twardecki [Alfred Hartmann}, one of the "janissary boys. - The school of Janissaries:letters to a german friends.

zaprasza.net/a.php?article_id=31122

I see. Thanks.

Yes, that could have been it.

For the last time: the SS never drafted anybody.
And Polish citizens were not eligible to be drafted unless they signed up as Germans on the DVL.

Now I see why Poland was relatively spared from Bubonic plague, the Black Death.

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