Does Poland deserve credit for the 1989 Revolution?

Segestes this ********hole of a ******f*******!


Heh:)

Don't be so angry. It was all Arminius's fault. It was him who kidnapped Segestes's daughter, Thusnelda and married her by force. Segestes had no options left. I don't like very deeply his style, but I can feel his emotions.

And Arminius... His emotions drove him to betray Romans, his friends, and to fight Segestes, which had better relations with them. Fighting Romans he was - in fact - striking his father-in-law.

One more melodrama with a woman in centre, which later was lifted up to the level of nation-liberating struggle.


I understand you irony. OK. Slavonic tribes not alone but under very instructive leadership of Huns and Avars. ;-)

Oh please, she run away with him, as she was madly in love with Arminius. Segestes would had loved to marry her to a nice little roman consul instead, but now she got pregnant by Rome's enemy.

WHOA, this story has the stuff of a cinema blockbuster!

Investment proposal?
Maybe...

Yo,
Most Germans don't give rat’s as$ what Polish people think. Why? Germans work hard, get paid well and feel secure about their future. In the US lives about 300 million of people and I guarantee you that 99% of the population doesn’t know/care “when or how Berlin wall collapsed. It’s a jeopardy question at best.

My own sister doesn’t have a clue where our country is. When I talked to her she was convinced that Poland is somewhere in the US. (She was 10 at that time) anyway, this is a silly example of how important this is to rest of the people here and much more people in India or China etc.

Oh, same goes with Germany. No one cares where it is either. Same principle.

What's my point?

No one cares except for us. Honestly Wurst, that's how I know you're a Polak like me,,, and not a Deutsch.

Is someone watching you 24/7 checking if you're German enough? WTH is wrong with you dude?
Don't get me wrong, people like you are amusing. I'm actually grateful. You got me off my lazy ass to respond in writing. and if you gonna mention something about my grammar in the next post, don't bother, I don't really give shi*.

First, I would like you to explain why you care so much about ’89 and second, why are you so afraid to be mistaken for a Polak.

world citizen

Well his family originates from Silesia so I could call him a Pole but, he wants to be German so I respect that


Oh they do lol, they do
Oh wait when I cam to think of it not that many Germans on this forum
O_o


Geography lesson NOW!


Oh, does she know it now?


Ehrm your new and WELCOME TO PF!
To inform you most people here aren't Polish (if their not Polish Americans, then it's an other thing)


Hhahahahhaha
It gave me pictures of the German Polizei watching BB with cameras if he is enough German over the internet (LOL)
*Was thinkz Sie? Ist das Deutsche opffürzehl?*
*Ja naturlich, ich liebe Sportz auf*


:O

My GF told me that the Polish Forums is just a waste of time. Tomorrow I will impress her with my brand-new knowledge that the Australia have actually got some history. Whole 85% of it. Wow!

I'm getting into this...
Same here, Great-grandpa was in Prussian army, grandpa in Wehrmacht, dad got a German passport, Why? Don’t know. He never visited Germany in his live.

My family is very "German" by Polish standards.

Who cares what he wants? He's a Polak cause he thinks like one. Just like me.


Somewhat, she is 18 now. Studding to to be a physical therapist. I've concluded Geography is not her forte.


Got it, no Polish here. Shhhhhhhh....


Indeed, i don't get it either. I'm sure, being a Devil's Advocate is not easy. I'm glad someone understands him. Are you "German" too?

Are you joking, this is 2nd grade stuff you learn in school, we also learnt about the Spanish revolution and Russian revolution...


[/quote]

If you call 2 double periods a week of Classical Studies minor then, you must be right, I dont agree you are though.

As for Mr Clarkson...he presents a motor show...

Pretty entertaining show I would like to add.

Uh, Solidarity? What exactly does that have to do with what I posted. You quote me thinking over what the options were for Poland to have changed the Western perception and you quote simply Solidarity. Which in context means nothing at all.


So how was Amsterdam? I ask because you have just come up with a 2/2 for nothing posts. So apparently a Pole is treated as a man from nowhere because the west uses the symbol of the Berlin Wall to emphasise the end of communism in mainland Europe? Really that is what it means?? What a ridiculous concept.


Oh how ridiculously ignorant you are. It is good though when people like yourself post rubbish like this, because quite simply it leaves no doubt as to the mental maturity of the person on the other end.

Australia's history as a settlement is only 200 years old, but (like any country) a lot has happened in 200 years. More than some others, less than some others, but more than enough to fill the minds of students. Pick any country in the world practically and study only their history for your history classes and you will still come up with enough. There are obviously people who study nation's histories for the large portion of their careers, let alone 85% of history time at school. But whatever, you are a waste of time.

Who Deserves Credit for the 1989 Revolution?

Karol Wojtyla
Ronald Reagan
Lech Walesa

in Poland or in general in eastern Europe?

Hhmm, I always thought it was Poland who showed the path for other communist countries in 1989. The Solidarity government was already working on reforms when communist regimes in Eastern block were still trying to defend the system and block the changes.

Without question.
If it were not for Poland, half of Europe would still be under the yolk of Moscow.
East Europeans owe Poland a great deal of gratitude.

Poland certainly helped in making 1989 possible. The main reason why the wall fell was because the Soviets refused to aid the East Germans in supressing the protests. They did so partly because the GDR had lost a lot of importance to the SU due to Poland slowly breaking out from the Soviet orbit, and without Poland, keeping control of the GDR became more difficult. The dwindling Soviet ressources made this position untenable.

Two key moments I think is agreeing to free elections in Poland and not closing the Hungarian border to Austria.

True, but don't forget Gorbachev's role. Without him the Soviets would've simply crushed the resistance just like they had before in 1953, 1956 and 1968.

Hungary also started taking in ethnic Hungarian refugees from Romania (getting crazier and crazier under late Ceausescu) in 1988, an unprecedented move in the eastern bloc

Well, I don`t think credit goes to Poland. Even if brat Zbigniew Brzezinski was cousin to brat Pope John Paul II, as some people rumoring. Things happened rather behind scene.

Local communist government in province of Voivodina, in my country, was first communist government that fell and broke. I know that, I took part in demonstrations. Yes and western Europe made sure that complete country broke in time after that.

But things in Central/Eastern Europe started from Yugoslavia.

Rubbish as usual.
Yugoslavia was not even in The Warsaw Pact and so had nothing to do with it.

For me the most visual image of that time was the Hungarians just trampling down that wire fence to let fleeing GDR people in...the first ones who just didn't want to play the "game" by the old dirty rules anymore...from then on a dam broke!

I personally will be forever grateful to the Hungarians for that!

I wish today's german gov would remember that better and stop harassing the Hungarians so much...

PS: I always wondered why no Hungarians post on this forum! We have people from everywhere but not Hungary?

Indeed, we Germans owe the Hungarians a great debt. Which is yet another reason why we must not let them be exploited by Orban's corrupt regime.

Berlin harking on at the Hungarians for their democratic choices was utterly wrong in 1989 and is still utterly wrong today...

It seems both times it's Germany which is wrong! I get a bad feeling about this...

As if Orban's Hungary is still a well-functioning democracy.... .

Why not?

I really wish Berlin would put that unbearable "moral finger" away....we have no right at all to criticize another country. Especially not those in the East who all fighted and won their freedom for themselves, not more or less "gifted" by allies!

West-Germany has never fighted with blood for their democratic freedoms...and the fall of the wall would had been unthinkable without the Russians losing interest, without the Hungarians and yes, the Poles.

Who are we to criticize ANYBODY about their take on democracy!

This is not about morality. In fact it is you who makes it a moral case by claiming that Germany should not criticize Eastern European countries out of moral obligation.

Orban has been systematically undermined the democratic institutions of his country in order to turn the country into a cleptocracy. He is thereby violating the rules Hungary subscribed to when it joined the EU. Therefore he gets criticism from Bruessels and other member states, this is not a German-Hungarian issue.


Germany is widely considered to have become a model democracy, because it copied (and improved) many institutions and laws from older democracies like the UK and the USA. German lawyers were consulted when former dictatorships like Spain, Romania and in fact also Hungary drafted their constitutions after becoming democracies. Even disregarding that, anyone who has an understanding of how democracies word and fail can point out an obvious problem.

It is in nobodys' interest that Orban is slowly ruining his country. I mean sure, Germany benefits from the many young Hungarians who are migrating to Germany, but long-term consequences could be very bad for us.