13 of December - the anniversary of MARTIAL LAW in Poland

To the PO losers and their flunkies, brown-nosers and hangers-on EVERYTHING IS KACZYŃSKI'S FAULT! Pile-up on the motorway, inclement weather, local team's defeat, flu epidemic -- Kaczyński is to blame! (LOL!)

PO party must be devastated by their loss.they are all in tears now.

I doubt they care that much. They're just watching the car crash that is PiS from a distance. In Poland, as you may have notices from afar, parties form and reform, disappear and come however the people are the same.

And 13 Dec will be an interesting test of how the paranoid lackeys of Ciemnogrod react in public.

Heaven protect us from Jasnogród! Good thing they've been put away in mothballs for at least the next 8 years! And the ultra-Jasnogrodians (ZL, SLD, SdRP, UP, Demokraci, UW, UD, ROAD, etc.) have been laid to rest for good!

Amen!
BTW it's Ciemnogród, not Ciemnogrod.

Stick to the topic

[moved from]
It's always the biggest traitors that pretend to be the biggest patriots, don't you think?

To be fair though Delph - while I admire Michnik et al, I am of the camp that had both the Generals been British, they would have long since got the same as Lord Haw Haw.

Martial Law was a crime against the Polish people and they should both have swung for it.

Coming as he did from a judaeo-bolshevik family of subversive traitors, Michnik called traitors Jaruzelski and Kiszczak "men of honour" and referred to the first Polish officer in NATO, the heroic Col Kukliński, as a traitor. Nothing more needs be said.

He was a traitor. There's nothing more to be said - his actions allowed NATO to know exactly what and how to destroy Poland in the event of war.

And he was of course referring to the Round Table talks, when the commies had to save themselves, and would have sold their own mothers, and not to the traitorous declaration of Martial Law - which the majority of Poles laughably seem to think saved Poland from the Russkis.

That's what I said -- in fact the whole Michnik clan were traitors and their son seems to have sucked his soft-on-commies approach with his mother's milk. When one's coutnry is enslaved by an alien invader like the USSR, those who collaborate are the traitors, not those who fight for their country's freedom the way Kukliński did. Remember, he paid the supreme price and lost his only two sons to the long tentacles of the Kremlin. Jaruzel actually got a military funeral although he should have been buried in rogues' lane.

I've said it many times, but it's a great shame that an independent Poland never had Jaruzelski in their ranks.

He's widely considered by independent sources to have been a fantastic officer and one of the very few Warsaw Pact senior officers that didn't enjoy getting completely out of his face on vodka.

A Soviet-trained turncoat who freely served Poland's enemies, his Kremlin masters, and after the war was personally invovled in destroying Poland's AK freedom-fighters. To save his own skin, he and Kiszczak had tonnes of incriminating CP documents shredded at the Konstancin-Jeziorna papermill. If that's your definiton of a patriot, then I feel sorry for you.

"e's widely considered by independent sources to have been a fantastic officer ",, hmm a very interesting comment Delph.

Not very interesting. He had a very good upbringing (went to a good Jesuit school, he was brought up a traditional Polish Catholic, etc etc) and he was a very disciplined officer who commanded respect. He got the job done with no fuss in Czechoslovakia in 1968, he got the job done in 1981 effectively, and his leadership in 1989/1990 got Poland through the most difficult phase without violence or bloodshed.

Imagine how good he could have been in a free and independent Poland?


Who knows, Polonius. I'd personally love to know what transformed a good Catholic kid into such a devastatingly good Communist. We know he suffered a lot in exile, so... who knows.

Doesn't change the fact that as an officer, he was among the very best in the Warsaw Pact and one of a handful that actually would have shone in a Western army too.

edited

And does Moscow's bidding for them. Delph has obviously read some strange history books, but he should ask the person on the street, the shipyard worker, the coalminer, the factory worker, the engineer, the schoolteacher, what they thought of Martial Law and the "Soviet danger".

We now know it didn't exist, and that the Russkis were going to leave the Poles to it. And some call the generals patriots. Not the American administration and not the British government of the time either.

Who gives one about the army anyway? Soldiers are well paid to do our dirty work for us, and politics demand that we thank them, while all they are doing is a job, and often not in our name.

Kisczak and the sun glassed general were as clear a pair of traitors as you will see this side of Armageddon, no matter what some militaristic history books state about their "inner" qualities. and I feel embarrassed for the reasoning of Poles who supported the act of Martial Law in retrospect.


Already stated Delph. British - IMO he would have been executed as a traitor.

Wrong, majority of left wingers think that, given that it's weird you don't share the same view.

At the time before Marshal Law was introduced, no one really knew if the Russians would invade Poland or not. This was on the mind of many people in Poland and they thought it would most probably happen, if Solidarity went too far. 1981 was not too far in time from the year 1968 when the Warsaw Pact armies orchestrated by the Soviet Union invaded Czechoslovakia and only a little farer from 1956 when the USSR invaded Hungary.

I remember a joke on BBC Radio 4 on that:
- Mr Brezhnev, what do you think of the American invasion of .............. (sorry, but I've forgotten what country the Americans were invading at that time)

- The Soviet Union condemns it utterly! And in this condemnation we have the support of the people of Hungary, Czechoslovakia and Afghanistan and next week I hope to have the support of the people of Poland as well ... ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha (Brezhnev laughs for quite a time)

Greneda...
Yes, it is weird that OT Mr B was apparently a highly charismatic bon-viveur with an alarmingly high strike-rate (lady killer wise......). We now know in retrospect that little ole Poland was low on his list, as he was about to kick the bucket from a dodgy ticker.

But you are of course so right that Poland was on the brink. It doesn't mean that Michnik was referring to communism and Martial Law when he referred to the deadly duo as "men of ..." as Polonius incessantly and erroneously repeats.

I know quite a few people now in their 60s, who said that at the time they were ready to occupy their factories if the Russkis invaded. Instead a conscript army was put on the streets as you know in minus 25 degrees of frost and the starved population had to give in without a fight.

Yet Delph and Harry support those crims. Utterly baffling.