"Poland's Concentration Camp" ??

In fact there were several in Scotland, set up by Sikorski for people he didn't like including several generals and a former Prime Minister. Plus a whole lot of other people. At least one person (that they admitted to; there were probably others) was shot while trying to escape. The first camps were on the Isle of Bute and at Tighnabruaich. The last camp was only closed when a British member of Parliament raised the issue.

Sikorski himself referred to them as Concentration Camps. It should be said that a disproportionate number of victims of the Polish Concentration Camps were from the same groups in society that the Germans were also imprisoning in occupied Poland.

" Sikorski for people he didn't like including several generals and a former Prime Minister" fair enough you could probably call it internment, in times of war you have to take some tough decisions quickly.

No, it wasn't just internment and the first prisoners were politicians he disagreed with. Nor were these similar to the normal wartime internment camps. They had a particularly brutal and violent regime. People were sent to Sikorski's Polish Concentration Camps for all sorts of reasons including ethnicity and sexuality.

A very interesting book was published recently. There are even a tiny number of survivors of Sikorski's evil camps who are still alive.

In times of war, decisions do indeed have to be made quickly, however the law still applies, as does basic human decency which Sikorski lacked.

Some interesting links here:


secretscotland.org.uk/forum/m-1308564097/


thejc.com/comment-and-debate/essays/152262/life-inside-concentration-camps-scotland

"first prisoners were politicians he disagreed with"

for all sorts of reasons including ethnicity and sexuality, can you send me some links,

Remember back in those days people who were in power and were homosexual were a risk because they could be blackmailed or controlled by a foreign power , sadly this still happens today.

In total war the generals have to step up because politicians have failed, best keep the politicians out of the picture, sort out the problem and then let them out of the cage (or not) once the problem is fixed.

See the last but one post.


This is not in any sense a reason to send someone to a concentration camp, nor were those wrongly imprisoned people necessarily "in power". Most of the thousands of inmates were in fact very much not "in power".


The law still very much applies, and Britain remained a parliamentary democracy throughout the war. Worth reminding that the Polish Government-in-Exile were largely politicians.

There are no excuses whatsoever for Sikorski's behaviour.

"It was also suggested that these sinister locations were being used to hold communists"

What was wrong with a pole jailing or shooting communists during that period, they were our enemy.

That's probably one of the lamest posts to appear on this forum in the last decade.

And does not in any way mitigate Sikorski's crimes. It also ignores the fact that on British soil, there was (albeit limited) political freedom - we didn't shoot anyone for being a communist (or a fascist). Shame however that Sikorski didn't live to be tried in a court of law.

That's probably one of the lamest posts to appear on this forum in the last decade.

The communists held the west under the threat of nuclear Armageddon for decades, now that's lame.

No communists would = no cold war simple

They were traitors and during the war should be shot at the spot.


Really, what about his accomplices from the British government?


By whom?

In 1939?

Do stick to facts. And stop trying to distract from the issue by talking about the Cold War, something not generally thought to be caused by Polish citizens in the UK.

Plus of course the inconvenient fact that most of the prisoners were not in any sense communists.

Jon you mentioned the commies in your post.

1939? I thought the topic was discussing concentration camps pre and post war??.

Ironside summed it up " traitors and during the war should be shot at the spot" if Sikorsky found or suspected people to be traitors then it was his right to lock them up or in the case of a traitor shoot them, that is the military way. my father or grandfather who served in the Polish army would have done the same thing.

One quote referred to that group. Did you read the articles?


He summed it up very badly. Unless you have evidence that any of the prisoners were "traitors".


Had they done so on British soil, they would have received the death penalty.

I'll post some more about the Polish Concentration Camps that were opened by Sikorski and his gang - the whole issue was ignored for many years however the new book has opened Pandora's Box. There's quite a bit online about them in Polish and it looks like the issue is beginning to be picked up by the media at the moment.

Yes, extremely telling; particularly The Jewish Chronicle's article.

Did anyone else read the image they used to base their anti-Polish smear piece on?

Take a look: Soviet Propaganda

Yes, indeed, this red herring was cooked up back in the day by none other than the official propaganda mill of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union: "Pravda".

And The Jewish Chronicle's pathetic and completely unbelievable attempt at trying to sound neutral with the caption "How the 'papers' broke the story of camp conditions" is even more laughable.

No surprise at all then to see one of the Fifth Column agitators spreading this toxic communist manure on here.

"Had they done so on British soil, they would have received the death penalty.

Yeah I can see how British law works, looks like most of the British Iraq veterans are going to be up in court soon .

If Poland had internment camps (or whatever you would like to call them) in the UK during WWII it would have had the blessing of the UK government, so completely legitimate.

I don't see the problem.

Being from there, you certainly should see. And it's simple. If you commit a crime, you get arrested, make a statement, charges are laid if there's a chance of guilt and a jury decides.


They didn't. Sikorski opened concentration camps. I suspect that a lot will be said about them since the book came out, with actual hard proof. In our age of compensation culture, I suspect the court cases will be much discussed here.

No such thing.


There's nothing legitimate about detaining people based on their sexuality or ethnicity.

Crikey Jon "a crime, you get arrested, make a statement, charges are laid if there's a chance of guilt and a jury decides."

A battlefield is no place for calculated decisions if you are a infantryman, you don't have time, you take split second decisions, things go grey, your mate just got killed, you see the enemy you do what you have to do, you go where your military training or your anger takes you, you have been trained to kill, it takes you outside the realm of what all people would consider to be norm, its a nightmare for any human being.

"Sikorski opened concentration camps." I would like to be a fly on the wall when you discuss this one down the pub with your Polish mates.

Which battlefield in Scotland do you mean? Culloden? Falkirk?


On the rare occasions I go "down the pub", we tend not to talk about concentration camps. It does however look like this issue which is gathering momentum (the lawyers are already sharpening their pencils) will be discussed a lot more.


He didn't just "open" concentration camps, he operated a pula rural regime in them for several years. He admitted that they were concentration camps, there are eyewitness survivors and there are contemporary accounts.

This one is going to be very hard to dodge.

"This one is going to be very hard to dodge" yep easy to pick on people who are dead and can't defend themselves, great conspiracy theory material tho.

Somehow I don't think Sikorski is going to be worried about a few sharp pencils.

"will be discussed a lot more"

So when you eventually discuss it with your Polish friends, let me know how you got on.

You even worse, what this off-topic subject is doing in this thread>? After all those were British concentration camps weren't they?

Nope. The Polish government-in-exile was allowed to operate sites extraterritoriality, rather like an embassy. So the Polish concentration camps as well as military bases and other facilities were Polish territory. UK citizens and government had no right of entry.

I just knew one of the usual suspects would try that one!

"After all those were British concentration camps weren't they"

Good point ironside Sikorski would have had no political or territorial rights in the UK to setup camps, therefore the responsibility for the alleged camps lies with the British government of the day.

Ouch I can feel those sharp pencils digging at the UK Treasury purse.

Not really, if you look at post #474 or had paid much attention to the two links. They were all very much Polish territory.

jon I certainly understand why.

Auschwitz-Birkenau death camp:
Construction began in 1940 on site that grew to 40 sq km (15 sq miles)
About one million Jews were killed at the camp in Nazi-occupied Poland.
Other victims included Roma (Gypsies), disabled people, homosexuals, dissidents, non-Jewish Poles and Soviet prisoners.

It's a horrible subject, isn't it. Always remember that the terms Concentration Camp and Death Camp are often confused. Birkenau (like Treblinka) was a Death Camp. It was set up for one reason only; to murder people in large numbers. All death camps were sited east of the German homeland, mostly in Poland due to transport infrastructure etc.

Other camps (Bergen-Belsen, Teresin, Westerbork etc) were Conventration Camps; though people died in those places, they were set up to 'concentrate' political and social opponents of the regime rather than specifically to kill them.

This thread started about Bereza Kartuska, specifically whether or not it can be called a concentration camp. The new revelations about the camps set up by the wartime Polish government-in-exile (which General Sikorski, who established them, called concentration camps) fit the definition.

One issue sure to crop up is the disproportionate number of Jews in the camps.

Jon357 "all very much Polish territory" wrong

The Polish armed forces in the west fighting under British command and so was Sikorski, my father had a British uniform and was given British medals, yep he had Poland on his shoulder and the mermaid on his cap but command was British.

Don't worry if we had Polish territorial bases in the UK we would have continued our fight against Stalin.

Hmm I need to check it. As far as I remember from reading fragments of the Cat-Mackiewicz prose he was only pointed out by the Polish government in Britain but all the rest has been done by the British authorities who had a quite few concentration camps of their own.

I don't like to talk smack like you people. I need to familiarize myself with all the data but I still think that you are somewhat mistaken here as to in what degree Poles have had their separate jurisdiction granted. I would think if we are going to act as the sticklers to the law it still would be a mainly British responsibility on account of them being a host country.

By the way there at least two other British concentration camps but they are very clearly stated as the German camps on the British soil under the occupation. Just an afterthought as to those lame excused of these scummy editors whose rags were and are printing lie about so called 'Polish concentration camps' lying through their teeth about 'specific' abr. of the English language.


Gees jon are surely are a prophet of our times or an PF oracle at the very lest you are a very clever fellow. Congrats,hurray! You should threw a party old chap to celebrate that event. It doesn't happens every day or often to be honest.

No. Since Poland (specifically its government-in-exile) was a sovereign state, any of their facilities were extra-territorial, meaning they were Polish territory, just as the embassy is today and was then.

Which is why the Polish concentration camps existed in Scotland. The British government didn't even have the right to enter them and any attempt to do so would have been a breach of the Vienna Convention.

You mean as the British done in Cyprus in 1945? Why jon for such a clever little fellow you sure are adamant to take this thread off-topic.

Why not start a thread about Cyprus, if you're so interested in things a thousand miles away. Rather than trying to pretend that Polish diplomatic territory wasn't Polish diplomatic territory.

A classic one "ooh, but he did it too, Mister".

At least you haven't tried to pretend that the Polish concentration camps set up by Sikorski (who admitted they were Polish concentration camps) somehow didn't exist. For which doubtless the few survivors would be grateful to you.