What British unit liberated Poland in 1945??

jonni
And your point is?

Deduct what the Allies (including the Soviets) stole from Germany, Poland and a whole lot of other countries after the war, and you are probably even.

Come on Jon, you should know that Poles view facts in history discussions with the same contempt that they use for gays! Don't you just love how some dipsh!t Pole offers the events of 1939 (and a moronic interpretation of them) as proof of Britain selling Poland six years & one world war later?!

You are the person making a point. Why did you falsely say the British


?

Your point is?

^because he's a dipsh!t Pole!

Harry, how do you get on with Poles when you are out drinking? You seem to knock them quite a lot here. Many Poles take an active interest in WWII issues.

^ Just fine. All I do is tell them to go read the actual wording of documents and not to rely on what they learned in school.

That and remember to stop the discussions when the odds get to more than three to one. As we all know, Poles tend not to attack unless the odds are better than that...

You right. I did use wrong word. They stole it.

^ How nice of you to continue to spit on the nation which has sheltered you since you decided to abandon Poland.

Provide a source, if you're accusing someone of theft.

The Polish gold reserve left on a French ship (the Emile Bertin, arrived 23 Sept 1939) to Lebanon, under the care of the French government, then via London to Canada, where it served as the finance for the Polish government-in-exile. In 1946 it was returned to Poland.

Unless you know differently! ;-))))

How nice of you to continue to spit on the nation which has sheltered your people since the dark ages. :-)

BTW - I understand that if you trust somebody with you money and later this man refuse to return it - you don't call it theft? Is there another word for it in your native language? Gecheft maybe?

such low life and craven .....

untreaty.un.org/unts/1_60000/1/11/00000504.pdf

You've been served, sir.

Unfortunately for you, I haven't. That document (read it carefully) is from 1947, a year after the gold reserves were returned in full.

You will notice that one of the signatories was Drozniak, the NBP president. It refers to much smaller sum of money given as disbursements in connection with the war effort (equipment and soldiers' wages) and welfare of Poles in the UK.

You'll have to try harder.

jonni
This is a document that legalize this theft. It was signed between UK and Polish communists over the head of rightful owners (namely Polish Government and President). Maybe you should read it once more. This time even more carefully.

enkidu

That document is not new to me.

It was signed by the president of the National Bank of Poland, appointed by the


here in Warsaw. They were the rightful owners, recognised as the de facto Polish Government by all competent bodies including the UN, whose online archives I assume you found it in.

Perhaps you'd have preferred the gov't-in-exile to have kept the moolah in London while the people of Poland starved.

You still haven't provided any source for your lie that the British government stole the Polish pre-war gold reserve.

If you taking money from somebody - would you return it to the same person or maybe to same one else?

The only Polish President from 1939 until 1989 was a president in exile. This so-called communists government wasn't legal in 1947 according to Polish laws. Just a bunch of traitors, who would sign everything that Stalin requested.

This case is simple - tons of Polish gold were evacuated to the UK. This is historic fact. Polish govt trusted Churchill. It was never returned to the rightful owner.

Maybe I am wrong. Maybe you can provide me with documents that state otherwise?

It was stored in Canada, by the Polish government, and was returned to the Polish government.


Why not stand in the street in Warsaw and ask passers-by if they agree with you?


Recognised by the United Nations and all major countries. The government-in-exile was no longer recognised as the Polish government by that time. Of course in 1947 there was still only one president in exile. Later there were two rival 'presidents'. There may even have been more, not that anyone would have cared.


Very simple. The gold was outside Poland for the duration of the war and returned afterwards.


Canada actually, but don't let fact stand in the way of fantasy.


The rightful owner was the Polish government. The only recognised Polish government, whether you like it or not, was in Warsaw. What would you have done with the gold?


You provided a link to the document yourself, proving it was transfered to the president of the National Bank of Poland.

And I repeat:
You still haven't provided any source for your lie that the British government stole the Polish pre-war gold reserve.

well, there is a reason Stalin allowed the Polish people to flee Russia for a bit, and I am sure it wasn't a simple matter of pretty please.

this would provide a reasonable explanation.. Stalin couldn't find the polish money.. Churchhill says.. we have the money.. and voila.. allies!!

jonni
Read, learn - then talk about history.

"Later there were two rival 'presidents'. There may even have been more, not that anyone would have cared."

So I will tell you for the third time (maybe this time with better effect) - the only President of Poland in 1947 was president in exile. This state of matter remain unchanged until 1989.

Go back to basics, boy.

Not according to international law, Polish law, the United Nations, the UK, the US, France, the BDR, the DDR, all other neighbours of Poland and friendly nations, According to them, the lawful Polish government was in Warsaw.

Of course I assume you know that between Bierut's departure in 1952 and Jaruzelski's election in 1989 the Polish leader used the title 'Chairman of the Council of State'. But still fulfilling the Presidential role of Head of State. Maybe you didn't know that.

About the president of the unrecognised government in exile. Which of them (the Ealing president or the Colchester president) do you think should have got all those tonnes of gold, and what do you think they should have done with them? And what would the reaction of people here in Poland have been?

And I repeat:
You still haven't provided any source for your lie that the British government stole the Polish pre-war gold reserve.

If I remeber rightly, Polish law is a bit of a mess, neither recognising the PRL as legitimate, nor recognising the Government-in-Exile much either.

About the only thing that is certain is that the current Polish state had Jaruzelski as the first President - and that this state is new and not the same as the previous Polish states.

That's why they revised it during the PRL years. The relevant thing here is that the PRL was recognised internationally as the government of Poland.

The issue here is whether, as a poster has claimed but can't back up, the British government stole Poland's gold reserve.

Jonni and enkidu differently define "Polish president". According to Jonni "Polish president" is an official leader of the state which consist word "Poland" in its name. According to enkidu "Polish president" is an official leader of of the state supported by majority of people living in what they consider "Polish state". Thus you both cannot agree until you accept the same definition.

The case itself is simple. British government was allied with Polish government on exile as long as they considered them to be a force helpful to realize their goals. After the war Polish government on exile lost this status in the eyes of British establishment and new communist government in Poland gained it. British government betrayed Polish government on exile, cynicism (money) are always dominant attitude (reason) in what we call politics. If there was any political idealism present among establishment in the past, it is long gone. IIIRP appeared on the maps not so long ago but already managed to do something similar to Serbia.

A shameful thing in itself though. A Soviet puppet government imposed on the Polish nation with a president (Bierut), who during the war worked in the Soviet NKVD and GRU, gave up his Polish citizenship for a Soviet one, fake elections in 1946, and the world accepts this as a rightful government. It was more like the 17th Soviet Republic - Polish SSR.

Absolute Bollocks. You were sold out by your own traitors, not the British. Was Britain a superpower at the end of WW2?

No, it had no influence. The Soviets, Polish communists and the Americans are to blame.

The Polish communists stole your money and Gold.


If you are going to quote documents, it would be nice to include every page. Starting at 61 and then only odd pages. I think there would have been an English version too.


The British are the same.

Harry, that's fair enough. That's the sign of a good teacher. The victim complex, completely understandable really, nonetheless leads to distortion and bias. Select sources become taken as given fact and that's wrong. We have all made that mistake and come to learn otherwise at a future time.

I'm almost certainly the first member of my family to visit Poland since the 18th century. And I certainly do not spit on Poland: there are many things good about Poland, I just want there to be more good things (and I do my bit to make there more good things).


He can't back it up and he won't back it up. You have to remember that this same poster has already claimed that no Poles were invited to the London Victory parade (a popular Polish lie) and then when his lie was revealed he tried to claim that only Poles from one squadron were invited!

That's an old chestnut. Don't know how it arose, but all Polish servicemen who served with the British were invited to take part.

I find the hair-splitting amazing. Like it or not, the PRL was recognised by the international community. Maybe not liked or trusted, but formally recognised.

I'm still waiting for the guy to provide a source for his claim that Britain "stolë" Poland's gold reserves!

To be specific. Britain did not steal Polish gold but United Kingdom did demand that Poland pay (from the gold reserve) for every slice of bread Polish refugees ate in United Kingdom.

All in all Poland was forced to pay (apart from the immense aid Poles gave to UK during BoB and the lives of Polish soldiers who died instead of British ones) 3 milion pounds to UK for food, shelter and the airplanes the Poles used to defend UK.

ipn.gov.pl/portal.php?serwis=pl&dzial=345&id=5518&poz=2


That is a lie, only squadron 303 was invited.
dziennikpolski.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=676:petycja-na-65-rocznic-parady&catid=4:reportae&Itemid=11

Tony Blair apologised for that btw, so did the Prime Minister apologise for something that didnt happen?