What British unit liberated Poland in 1945??

Was it the Peace Corps?

No but of my foreign colleagues doing the same job as me, one was from Peace Corps and the other was from CUSO (basically the Canadian version of Peace Corps).

I resent that ignorant comment. The nation is Israel and yes, it issues passports. I have no problem with calling it "Jewland" either. Of course in the period you are discussing there was no Israel, and even when it was established, not every Jew around the world became a citizen of Israel, just like not every ethnic Chinese is a citizen of China.

Harry, Polish Jews were a clearly defined ethnic group that were Polish nationals but not ethnic Poles. Nothing to do with bigotry – it's just historic fact.

That has no bearing on Torq's point on whether Poles are to blame for Poland being communist. It seems clear to me that most communists in post-war Poland were ethnic Poles and many were ethnic Jews. There seems to be a tendency to minimize the role of ethnic Poles because it isn't something Poles are proud of. But like Vichy France, where French people collaborated with the Germans, many ethnic Poles must have collaborated with the Soviets or the regime would not have lasted so long. The fact is that when ethnic Poles stopped cooperating, the communist regime fell. So I respectfully disagree with Torq's point, but to attack him as a bigot because he recognizes there is such a thing as Jewish ethnicity is absurd.

(Your style in general is really nasty. If you can't stand Poles, why do you live in Poland?)

No Israel is not Jewland. One in four citizens of Israel is not a Jew (despite the fact that more than a few Israelis hold views similar to Torq's, i.e. only Jewish people can be proper Israelis).


He thinks that only white Catholics can be properly Polish. Everybody else can "just hold a Polish passport". That is because he's a bigot. Although the fact that you appear to think that Israel is a nation for Jews only doesn't speak too highly of you.


I stay because I like Poland and I generally like Poles. I'd like to make it a better place but to do that it is necessary to change certain viewpoints Poles tend to hold. And to be frank a certain type of Pole really p!sses me off.

How Israeli flag might look like if what you saying is true:

You really are a most unaccomplished liar. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel

Although now I check again I note that the current figure is 75.5% Jewish, so I should have said "245 in 1,000 Israelis are not Jews". But given that the Arab birth rate is higher, it'll be 1 in 4 very soon.

Actually, all I've said was that NOT ALL of the members of post-WW2
communist government of Poland were ethnic Poles.

That's it. Simple historical fact.

You read it and started spouting all this nonsense about me being an anti-semitic bigot.


That's ridiculous, Harry. You are even trying to make Yehudi (one of the most tolerant
and open-mided people on this forum) look like a bigot.

Why don't you just admit that you were wrong about that "nationality" and "ethnicity"
issue and stop embarrassing yourself further?

Where is the lie in this picture?
There is possibility that such a multi-cultural country like Israel may choose to express goodwill and tolerance.
Therefore this flag "might" look like this. You can't deny it, can you?

That's because we didn't kick out most of the Arabs who were here when the state became independent. I don't think that should count against us. But the state was created by Jews to be the politically independent homeland of the Jewish nation. It's main language is Hebrew and it's holidays and public life reflect Jewish history, culture and values (although not as much as I'd like it to.)


No. He thinks that only ethnic Poles are ethnic Poles (a self-evident statement). He never said that ethnic Jews, Germans, Tatars or Ruthenians that are of Poland are not to be considered Polish nationals.

I don't know where you come from, but not all countries are like the US or Canada, where there is no core national ethnicity and where citizenship is determined only by where you were born. Many other countries define themselves by ethnicity but also recognize citizenship of minority ethnic groups that are native to the country. That's why there are two different words in the English language – nationality and ethnicity. An Arab citizen of Israel, for example, has Israeli nationality and Arab ethnicity.

Not all Jews are Israeli and not all Israelis are Jews.
What's wrong with that?

Exactly. Thank you very much, Yehudi.

It sounds simple, however, for some reason, Harry is not able to comprehend it.

It's like that in the US, too. That's why we have "Arab Americans", "African Americans", "Native Americans", "Latinos" "Asian Americans", to name some. Everyone is defined by ethnicity but identifies with the American nation.

It's not exactly the same. In the US there is no core ethnic group (not since the end of the 18th century at least). It's a country founded on a political belief and not on ethnicity. It's not a nation state. So in theory no ethnic group in the US is more "American" than another. But in nation states, like Poland, Israel or Spain, for example, there is a difference between the core ethnic group and minority groups. The minorities have citizenship and political rights as individuals but the core ethnic group dominates the culture, public life and politics of the nation. So if I was born in Poland and had Polish citizenship (like my grandfather, say) I would not be as "Polish" as my ethnic Pole neighbors, even if I could talk the talk and walk the walk.

its probably one in four citizens of England are not English. So England is not English?

Harry, you really are full of yourself - how do you know what other people think or believe? Surely you cannot. Why write that then? That must be a lie, and you - a liar.

To explain the commie issue - yes, I have the commie relations, ignobly deceased, and I don't recognize them as kin. They were traitors. Are you familiar with the idea of a traitor? Someone who works not for the benefit of one's country, native or chosen, but against it?

I can say that they were ethnic Poles, but by nationality they were Soviet and proud of it.

I'm sure that you'll run for this statement like a poor relative running to a dinner party - but there you go. 'Poland' is very hard to define, it's in the heart, it's an idea and a belief. She lives even if there is no state of Poland, remains while the country borders change. You can have blood of your ancestors, or you can have the sentiment, and be Polish.

And stop offending Catholics, Harry. Those who have love of Poloniae are as well Arian Brothers, various Protestants, Muslims, and yes, Jews. Majority are NOWADAYS CAtholic, because of border movement after Tehran, because of RC being in opposition to the Soviet, and because of sermons of Piotr Skarga.

Lies, they tried co operation with highlanders as they saw them as real Poles and the real culture (Goebbels) but the next week the chairmens who was appointed got hanged and it all went down the stray. So don't come with theories who really don't work


Are you trying to be amusing? Norway- Army two different things?


lol so true hahaha

Erm...and how does that fit with all this "subhuman"-theory and all Slavs for forced labor work etc. Generalplan Ost?

Do you think Hitler/Himmler made an exception for the Poles? ;)


????

Show me where the government of Norway surrendered. Or the King for that matter!
Until the King didn't sign a treaty it wasn't valid.

Army may have standed down but the King didn't!


Becaouse for Goebbels it was a beaoutyfull culture he had seen in the highlanders. He proclaimed that THEY were the TRUE Poles and they were not sub-human becaouse of their culture. But he gave it all up when he found his "chosen" leader hanged (By the highlanders themself).

Even the most right wing nut jobs in Poland wouldn't co-operate with the Nazi's there was even an smal attempt in an highly anti-semitic right right right winged nazi organization but the leader got killed by his OWN MEMBERS

Ive heard stories of Polish partisants (Right wing nut jobs) but that was near the end of the war when German soldiers evacuated through Czechoslovakia, some of the "Poles" came along with em afraid of the "red plague".

Even tho consider the VERY small proportion of support to the nazi regime and how any attempts were dealt with. I wouldn't consider Poland nor it's people co-operators.

Different story in Norway witch is a pitty (YES Harry you have pointed it out!)

Does it really matter what the king did, except for having a good excuse, I mean...? ;)

I know what you mean! *nods*

There are people in Germany who still believe the surrender of Germany '45 wasn't legal either...

They still don't acknowledge the Federal Republic...they even give out ID's to (how they say) the only real follower state. *goes looking for link*

Update: Have it!

"Kommissarische Reichsregierung"they call themselves..
de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kommissarische_Reichsregierung

Depends on the individual and his will of sacriface.
Do you know why some with Jewish heritage wanted to join the commie party in Poland? Becaouse they wanted to be ethnic Poles. LOL big mistake lol


Ofcourse it wasn't legal, but what can one the hell do when there are millions of enemy troops in your country without any clear leader nor army protecting it?

Not much to wonder then?
If it was any German goverment or something outbroad that would been something different.


Norway was a Monarchy a constitutional one. What the King says in war the other agree to it. He said we won't give up, the rest of the government said ok, even tho they considered surrender.

The King is the head military leader, chief in command or how you would spell it.
Some twats just can't comprehend reality.

As my German tongue sucks so hard I can only make some funny comments with it could you shortly explain everything written there? :)


Different states are build up different, take a look at Belgium or Switzerland! Have fun lol ;)

Heh:)
We have it:

der-reichskanzler.de

But the Norwegian military layed down its arms, right? So was it their leadership that had a problem with reality, or did they simply defy the orders of the king? Just curious.

In wich country did they reside and where there any inportant countries backing it up? What did USA say to it?


The army was dissolved to avoid further unnecassery bloodshed as allied troops were moving out of Norway. free voulenteers escaped to Britain. Rest stayed, some as others have pointed out feelt grief over the defence of Norway and the escape of the government. (Not many really blamed the king as he had familly in GB)

Even NS didn't try to confront the King in propagand unless ive skipped something. They mostly blamed the allies and sometimes allmost made them look like pirates (skull flags etc)

The King said the fight must go on! But there were pro-axis generals and leaders in the Norwegian army. Good example of how Narvik got into Axis hands in the first place.

Treason everywhere.

In Berlin they are and the USA can't give a sh*t (as can't most Germans).

deutsches-reich.com

Let's face it...most Germans never had it so good under the Reich as they have it now.
All nutters won't ever have a chance as long as it stays that way...

But I could get a "Reichsführerschein" (Reich driver licencse) if I wanted to (and an identification card as citizen of the german empire)!

deutsches-reich.com/Antrag_Reichsf%FChrerschein_Reichsersonalausweis.pdf

I thought it was right after ww2...
If it is now it really makes no sense.

Well...you want sense? You need to go elsewhere...

Even the worst possible madman has some sense behind it's actions BB. Doesn't mean it's right :)

Logic was borned when humans came to life ;/
Im gonna go watch a episode of "Supernatural" and go to bed cya

Why then you didn't find an honor to keep your promise set in the agreement with Czechoslovakia in 1925 and broke it in 1938 invading the country, which was ready to fight Nazis? Parade invitation and all the BS flying around it, with your honor and effeminate attitudes is nothing compared to honor, which you threw lower than possible by utilizing tension between Chechoslovakia and Germany for your own gain, forgetting to keep the promise made just 13 years before! Where was your honor then? Or it wasn't as important as a letter with red roses from Britain?

@Nathan:

Polish foreign affairs minister Józef Beck in his active politics against deciding the fate of smaller countries by superpowers, was always against partitioning Czechoslovakia using ethnic criteria, because it was (just like Poland back then) multi-national country. However - however, if such partition was to take place he demanded that Polish ethnic minority should be treated just like any other minority (German for example). It was an argument against partitioningCzechoslovakia and not for.

Taking Zaolzie (or I should rather say - taking back, after we were backstabbed by the Czechs when they took it from us when we were busy fighting on the east front) with the assent of Czechoslovakia (!), took place AFTER the Sudetes were given back to Hitler by Great Britain and France, as a consequence of accepting the ethnical priority by the superpowers in Munich. It was Poland's duty to protect ethnic Poles from being incorporated into the Reich.

Western propaganda was very happy to use this argument to transfer the responsibility for the fall of Czechoslovakia from their dirty hands. Beck didn't cause the collapse of Czechoslovakia - it was Chamberlain and Daladier alongside Hitler and Mussolini. Simple as that.

Generally, I have to say that looking throughout the history, Polish political, diplomatical and military conduct was extremely honourable and chivalric
towards both weaker and stronger enemies and that makes me proud, because it shows the superiority of Polish spirit and morality over those
of other European nations. That's what makes us so special and causes jelaousy, resentment and sometimes even hatred in some foreigners.


Czechoslovakian government, threatened by Germany, the secession of Sudets and Slovakia, left alone by France and Great Britain, was everything but ready to fight Nazis. The Czechs didn't want to fight and Hitler took what France and Great Britain gave him.