Poland's biggest historical blunder?

Why did Lithuania enter Polish territory on August 27th, 1920?

O curse I will it is called legitimation. If I could do what I please I would have nuked you all slime bastards ! Helping the world - my ass !

Soviets were liberating countries - from their possessions. you do the same, you were just more cleaver about it!

You say it was legitimate, i say it was not. Also some pro baiting mate.

Don't be childish Harry. You don't have to hold a gun to anybody's head to be responsible for a crime, and Brits have been particularly good about blaming others for their own faults. UK and France broke a major treaty giving green light to all interested to do whatever they pleased. Germans took it all, minus a little scrap of land that Poles felt belonged to them.

It is yet another example of the colossal "reinterpretation" of history for the mainstream UK based consumption. Heck, even then, the day Chamberlain, that irresponsible and shortsighted moron, came back from Munich and gave out some gibberish about averting a war and about preserving Britain's honor. No serious historian or politician then or now would take the moron seriously, and neither of Chamberlain's statements was true.

Czech's call the issue of British and French betrayal zdrada zapada. Facts are facts, and no amount of denying them will change history. The British broke one of the most important treaties, even though there were among of those who were supposed to guard its implementation. Period.

No idea. Was that territory agreed to be Poland? Oh, no, it wasn't.
But Poland most certainly did invade what it had agreed to be Lithuania.


So you can not actually say what the British did that broke the treaty. Or can you perhaps quote the part of the treaty that states that Britain was responsible for preventing other countries from breaking the treaty?

Only a Pole could complain about Britain breaking a treaty by not preventing other countries from breaking it, when the first country which broke the treaty by invading Czechoslovakia was none other than Poland!


That is almost as superb as you claiming that Britain broke the treaty by preventing Poland from invading Czechoslovakia! You lie about history and then whine about other people 'reinterpreting' it!


You can make that statement as often as you want, but can you quote the part of the treaty which made the British responsible for keeping Polish troops out of Czechoslovakia? No, you can't.

With whom? A party not recognized by the international community as legitimate government of any country?

youtube.com/watch?v=nZHpprf6HSM

Don't be silly, Brits and French had it all settled way ahead of everyone else, typically British Style with a single stroke of the pen. Proof is somewhere in the museum archives.

I think Sokrates already mentioned it before - the biggest mistake Poland ever made was to let the Brandenburg Hohenzollerns overtake Prussia (after the lineage of Albrecht Hohenzollern died out) - instead of just taking the Prussia over

I do not think that a blunder....

*tries to think about a world without Prussia*

*panics*

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Here is the glorious Polish "army" or better "zbrodniarzy w mundurach" in action:


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgenthau_Report


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Ukrainian_War


It is natural for intellectual dwarfs, gumishu.


Wow. Why did you fight for 3 weeks against the Nazis then in 1939? Why fight if it is yours? The Lithuanians fought because it was their capital and because they knew what the Polish army will do to their city after the capture: loot, destroy the stores, steal private property and kill civilians. Any reasonable person would defend their city against this type of barbarians.

Do you wish to claim that in October 1920 Lithuania was not recognised as a country or that the government of Lithuania was not recognised as legitimate? More importantly, can you prove either of those claims? I somehow very much doubt it.


So you also want to claim that the Polish-Nazi invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1938 was not the fault of Poland and Nazi Germany but in reality the fault of the British and French for not stopping the invading forces. OK then, so now we can agree that the Nazi-Soviet invasion of Poland was not the fault of the USSR and Nazi Germany but in reality the fault of Poland for not stopping the invading forces.

Nathan you're quoting a wiki article that you yourself edited, last time you edited a battle in which you increased the size of participating armies about 10 times over.

Once again, Brits decided to sit this one out way before Soviets stepped in. It’s British fault.

Harry, Britain broke a major treaty. There is no way on earth to deny it regardless of what little silly details you're asking me to cite. In this case it was not about details but about a major betrayal. Betrayal so bad that the Brits even dissuaded Czechs from fighting when Benes expressed his willingness to do exactly that. Britain dumped a country for a few months of questionable stability. That is reminiscent of the British suggestion for Poland not to prepare for war because that could tick Hitler off.

Britain turned out to be a coward nation, lead by a traitor and a shortsighted moron. Deal with with the history of your own country before you ask Poles to deal with theirs. To complain about unquestionable wrongdoing of Poland within its history but rejecting those of the country whose passport you carry is like worrying about mosquitoes while you are surrounded by wolves.

The city was Polish and no such incidents occurred.


I was talking about Bolsheviks, the only side that recognized Lithuania's rights to Vilnius in August 1920. As Poland did not recognize Bolshevik government until November 1920, your claims that Lithuania entered Lithuanian territory on August 27th is wrong. They were occupying ethnically Polish land until Żeligowski kicked them out.

Then why did you fight? According to your logic the fight is not necessary when the city is yours.


I don't know about what happened in Vilnius, but in Lviv the Polish barbarians murdered civilians, looted the stores and stole whatever they could. The Lithuanians didn't want to risk it on their lands.

you have interesting sources - btw there were almost no Lithuanians to rob in Wilno A.D 1920 (except for the military pesonnel)

There were pretty much no Lithuanians in Vilnius. It wasn't their land, either.


We wouldn't had Lithuania agreed on plebiscite.

Not only that .....he is that kind of guy who would spit into a somebody's tea and then accuse an innocent passerby of that !

Must be an Ukrainian trait.

I-S (waits for BB to defend Nathan)

There were no Poles in Vilnius A.D 1920 except Polish invading barbarians. The rest were citizens of the Austro-Hungarian empire. I see we are on the same page.


Did you recognize the government you aimed to install forcefully in Lithuania in 1919 by overthrowing their legitimite government?


Was it yours?


Poles organized "plebiscite" in August 1919:


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1919_Polish_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat_attempt_in _Lithuania

Scumbags, no comment.

But more than 67% of citizens of Vilinus spoke polish and thought of themselves as Poles.


That i'm afraid is not true, Poland never overthrew any lithuanian goverment.

recognition of Kosovo separation from Serbia. It was mistake by official Poland. Luckily, Poland can always annul its Kosovo recognition and Poland would do it sooner or later, as we all know

According to a treaty signed by Poland in October 1920, it was indeed Lithuanian land.

Temporarily Lithuanian. And I was talking about August 1920.

Sok, I meant legitimate in the sense of officially acknowledged as such but we all know that that isn't the be all and the end all of the matter.

and the rest were Jewish with some 2 per cent Lithuanians

Which is exactly my point, Lithuania did absolutely everything possible to cause polish intervention, you dont f*ck over your bigger stronger neighbor in the fashion they did and expect peace and quiet, its a bit like stealing and not expecting to go to jail.

Oh, some steal better than you think ;)

I think they learned not to trust the Russian govt either.

Strangely, it's hard to find wikipedia's information about massacres committed by the Ukrainian army in 1918-1921 (not because they didn't happen).


Manus I. Midlarsky (2005), The killing trap: genocide in the seventeenth century, Cambridge University Press, page 47.

e.g.



...
massviolence.org/Crimes-and-mass-violence-of-the-Russian-civil-wars-1918?artpage=3

Talking about Ukrainian 'barbarians' who plundered towns and murdered civilians.

I know:( but cant help myself

Let's see what You should have done according to the German officer "Alfred Jodl at the Nuremberg Trials said that "if we did not collapse already in the year 1939 that was due only to the fact that during the Polish campaign, the approximately 110 French and British divisions in the West were held completely inactive against the 23 German divisions" - so I think You shuld have been active!!!

but sorry You were active - dropping propaganda leaflets on Germany and then "On 12 September, the Anglo French Supreme War Council gathered for the first time at Abbeville in France. It was decided that all offensive actions were to be halted immediately

"


Harry I mean Your govermnet not You


the treaty was only abiut Suwalszczyzna, Wilno was not mentioned, why do You lie?


are You aware that Berlin was founded by the Poles?so according to Your logic it is Polish?in 1920 2% of inhabitants were Lithuanian, look at architecture, what does it represent?