Poland's biggest historical blunder?

We have had this topic several times already in PF :)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poles_in_the_Wehrmacht



Erm....

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polska_Si%C5%82a_Zbrojna

They were individual soldiers, no Polish troops of any level were organized. That's how it works.

Barracks, polish flag, slogan...what do you want more! ;)

According to the link you just posted:

They made up for that with the Wehrmacht... ;)

a) Who posted that link?
b) The Polish unit was Wehrmacht, not Waffen SS.

It appears less than 500 people volunteered to Polish Wehrmacht, even less actually showed up for recruitment. Where and when was that 72th Regiment formed?

Feckin Kloses and Podolskis of WW2 :-/

The fact is Poland did everything what was possible to create a real, independent Ukrainian state (as that was in her very own interest) but failed as the Soviet forces were too strong to push them away from Ukrainian lands and Ukrainians themselves were deeply divided and disorganized. But obviously following common sense is too difficult for Harry the expat.


You forgot about one small detail, It has never been ratified. What now ? Moving away from "Poland stabbing Ukrainians allies in the back" to "proving" that Konzentrationslager Majdanek was a Polish death camp as 2 guards were possibly half-Polish, half Ukrainian ? Don't you find it pathetic to be an internet troll being so old ?


CAE now ? Wow, what a career, congrats Mr "expat" :)))

Polish government in 1940 was not in Warsaw. So by your logic it was Ok. Poland had no right for Warsaw and the rest because its government was relaxing in London. I see.


If you see the invading army, it is considered normal to raise an army. Shame is that out of all hyper-Catholic and pious states Poland was the one to do that on their neighbor. Disgrace.


Was there discopolo, BB? ;)

Very good point there, Nathan. Their govt was in exile. This from a country that had one of the strongest armies in Europe, we are told.

By the time the war was over, there was no Warsaw. And again there were little to zero Lithuanians in Vilnius.


Germany, Russia, Czech, Hungary, Sweden, Lithuania etc. had their share of wars they started. Countries start wars where they see their interest. Deal with it. The only reason I can't think of Ukrainian wars is that Ukrainians never stepped up to create their own state until late XXth century.

But failed because they decided to accept tens of millions of rubles from the USSR in exchange for agreeing that the Ukrainian National Republic did not exist and Poland forgetting that she'd agreed not to sign a treaty like the 1921 treaty of Riga.


a) Got a source for that? Doubt it.
b) Got any details about when the Polish-British treaty of August 1939 ratified? If it wasn't, why do you plastic Poles whine about Britain failing, in your ignorant opinion, to live up to her treaty obligations?


Not taught CAE for seven years either. In fact, I haven't taught any exam classes for the last five years, although I'll bet a large amount that you earned a fair bit less than me in the last five years.

When they lost the war against everyone, first they got beaten by polish civilians, then they got beaten by the polish army and then they got b*tchslapped by Russia.

Then they failed to establish a proper economy which led to them starving several milion of their own people to death and then blaiming their incompetence on Russia.

In Uman ;)


Battle of Zhovti Vody, battle of Korsun, battle of Pyliavtsi, battle of Batih show something different ;) The famous polish army was fleeing the battle-fields and a year later Poland was gone on the ends of the Ukrainian spikes. Nota bene: you led no other war at that time :)))


Yeh, they so slapped that the Russians in 2008 raised the whole bruhaha against the Ukraine's celebration of Konotop battle victory when the Russians were crushed.


What a bunch of wussies :)


/wiki/Battle_of_Konotop

In all the cases whether with poles or russians the big mistake of the Ukrainians was not to go over into their homes and massacre the whole population out so that they thought twice before coming over the next time.


One reason you can't think (beside obvious reasons) is most likely you have never read Ukrainian history. Open up a book on occasion and you might learn something :)

So when did Ukrainians have their own independent state?
Why didn't Ukrainians fight against USSR by themselves when Polish allies failed? The Soviet army was badly organized, malnourished, not well armed etc. The odds weren't impossible.

According to the Polish government there was an independent Ukrainian state from 1920. Obviously that was only until the USSR offered Poland tens of millions to agree that the territory was instead part of the USSR.

Here is the Ukrainian army history with the statehood periods for starters: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_Ukraine


The Polish were the allies of one faction of the Ukrainians under command of Petliura.
Many didn't support cooperation with the Poles. Ones saw Ukraine as a Soviet state. The others as a democratic state (in its present meaning). There were ideas as to how the Ukrainian state should develop, we had: anarchists, monarchists, democrats, communists, all pulling in a different direction, unfortunately, unable to form a single front. The neighbors used that discord. Our fault. Ukrainian history of 1918-1921 is a whirlpool of battles, events, governments, armies passing back and forth. It was an exciting, tragic, complicated period.

hahahahahahhahahaha!!!!!
:DDD
With such a pathetic excuse for history you wont get far, I just hope for sake of sane and good Ukrainians that is not history you can find in Ukrainian history books.

But you still blame Poland, who just herself regained independence, for not fighting for you. As I always said: first figure out what the hell you want, and then eventually you will find the way of achieving it. Not just go around blaming anyone in the neighborhood for your spectacular failures.

I doubt the Poles were "bragging of running over Germany" that's just Nazi German propaganda to help justify the Nazi invasion of Poland. It has as much credibility as the Nazi myth of "Polish calvary charging German tanks". Even if the Poles said things about the Nazis, it was if anything trash talk in response to all the bravado trash talk coming out of Nazi Germany Berlin broadcasts of the "Superior German Nazi race vs the inferior Polish/Slavic race" etc.

Also Poland did not fall in 3 weeks. It fell in FIVE weeks to BOTH Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia. Nazi Germany's defeat of Poland would have been temporary if Russia did not attack Poland on the other side AND give Nazi Germany 2 years of war resources and fuel when it originally only had 60 days of war resources and fuel.


Its not fair to make these negative generalizations about Ukrainians.


That's not nice. The Ukrainian Americans I know are good people.


Come on Sok. That's not nice. For much of Ukraine's history, like Poland, it was a victim of circumstances prompted by outside powers. The Ukrainians were fighting to survive against others just like Poland was when hyper nationalism was making nations in Europe (especially the large ones) go crazy and make them kill others who were not like them.


This is very true. Things were very complicated in Ukraine in past years.

As you say there were a whirlpool of battles, events, governments, armies passing through Ukraine. Just like in Poland. Ukraine was a victim of circumstances and a whirlpool of events prompted by outside powers just like Poland was before and during the WWI to WWII period. This is why I think Poles and others should be slow to criticize Ukrainians since Ukrainians had a tragic COMPLICATED history just like Poland in those years.

Things were not black and white. It was all gray.

Ukrainians are cruel and don't deserve for own state. They should be in Russia state. Russian knew how to act with ukrainians. Poles made mistske in trying tocivilize tthis people.

Love the arrogance to think oneself could civilise other people. :D

Its true though, what cities, works of art, music or achievements of science did Ukraine have? None. All that was built, developed or achieved in Ukraine was done by Poles and Russians.

They have big achivments in brutal killing people.

Defensless people that is, they lost every war they took part in so fighting is out of their league as well.

Lols,might be a lesson you Poles could do with learning regarding your own history eh......


lols,thats a football reference right? I got that,...:)


Erm,is this the same mighty soviet army that would have overrun europe if not for the battle of Warsaw? ? make up your minds folks....

Bit pathetic really,two fcuked over ,p!ss poor nations both scrabbling to show the other is less woteva........pfffff.

lol yourself. We did fight and bleed for our freedom (because we were always clear about our goal.) We needed help on one occasion but still we were doing most of the fighting ourselves. So there is no parallels.


How is that imperium of yours doing, sweetie?

No,of course not,there never is,I forgot,Poland is completly unique,no other country in that nek of the woods ever suffered or was fcuked over by its neighbours.....how dare anyone think they were,what an insult to poland blah blah blazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz