Polish Officer in NATO, Col. Ryszard Kukliński.

Some post-commie scumballs have again defaced the Kraków memorial to the First Polish Officer in NATO, Col. Ryszard Kukliński who supplied American wtih the Evil Empire's secret plans. I doubt if Michnik was actually involved physically, but it was his rag that has called Kukliński a traitor and Jaruzelski a hero, and apparently there are those in Poland who actually believe the crapola Gazeta Wybiórcza publiishes..Apparently Michnik has never heard of Konrad Wallenrod.

If the cap fits. Perhaps you think Kim Philby and the Julius Rosenberg weren't traitors either.


At least you've got one part of your diatribe right.


I doubt that.

Thats about right !

Workiing against the enemies of your country's freedom, in this case the Soviet-installed PRL regime, is not tresason. It is heroism!

Being a spy is the exact antithesis of heroism.

Really ? What is your definition of heroism?

The guy took a solemn oath. Then broke it.

So he was a traitor to the traitors. He didn't betrayed Poland or Poles. Jaruzelski and Kiszczak did and they are traitors.

Traitor to PRL it is nothing to be ashame of!

An oath is an oath. No ifs or buts.

Poles disagree with you: more Poles consider Kuklinski to be a traitor than consider him a hero.

There is not universal traitor's concept.
He was the traitor to PRL - good !


Even if that were true it doesn't make it so!

There is however a universal principal that a soldier does not betray his vow. Ever.

Thats what they say but in a real life its happens often enough.

And such people are regarded as traitors and punished. Bradley Manning probably thought he was doing the right thing too, as did Burgess & Maclean, Rosenberg etc.

von Stauffenberg ....
I see your point but I Disagree
Poles too often has been faced with the bad choices only

Especially as the Polish Army was well regarded all the way through to 1981.

Soviet Army ! Polish branch of the Red Army

Very different. And even if it hadn't been, that is no excuse to betray his country or his comrades.

Von Stauffenberg, by the way was a very different kettle of fish.

I can see that being moreso true in a volunteer army vs. conscript.

Honest question: What is the selection / vetting process to become an officer in a conscript army?

PRL was a captive nation, an illicit, bastard, puppet state so anyone who opposed it was a hero.

And it was the state that Kuklinski swore his solemn oath to. End of.

European history provides quite a few examples when a professional mercenary's vow was broken by condottieri at will. Mamertines anyone? Machiavelli describes many such cases: desertion, joining forces with enemy, switching sides.

I vaguely remember mercenary betrayals taking place during wars of Charles the Bold, Duke of Burgundy against Lorraine and Suisse, and his death at Nancy.

Polish allies at times: Crimean Tatars and Cossacks were also prone to betrayal.

General Patrick Gordon, a venerated Scottish mercenary, after already switching sides from the Polish to the Muscovite one (honourably though), was almost given a deadly blow to his division during 1695 campaign against Turks, because a German engineer betrayed to Turks the weak points of the Muscovite lines.

So it looks that there is a difference between romantic theory and practice.

Kuklinski wasn't a mercenary. He was an officer in the army of his country who betrayed his vow.

There are indeed many such examples. Most of them treason.

Really ? he took an oath no buts, no ifs !

And the oath he took was to Germany. Not to a madman. Simple as.

Wehrmacht oath

Die Vereidigung der Wehrmacht auf Adolf Hitler, 2.8.1934

"Ich schwöre bei Gott diesen heiligen Eid, daß ich dem Führer des Deutschen Reiches und Volkes Adolf Hitler, dem Oberbefehlshaber der Wehrmacht, unbedingten Gehorsam leisten und als tapferer Soldat bereit sein will, jederzeit für diesen Eid mein Leben einzusetzen."

The Wehrmacht Oath of Loyalty to Adolf Hitler, 2 August 1934

"I swear by God this sacred oath that to the Leader of the German empire and people, Adolf Hitler, supreme commander of the armed forces, I shall render unconditional obedience and that as a brave soldier I shall at all times be prepared to give my life for this oath."

By God? I thought The Nazis denounced religion like the Soviets did.

Apparently all those PF-ers who are tripping over thermselves trying to show how sacred and iniviolable an oath or vow is to be are just doing so because they enjoy polemics. Many of the very same people hypocitically let off the hook and make excuses for the bastards who take an oath and then break it for convnience sake to get divorced. At least Kukliński was motivated by higher values, the freeedom of his homeland, and was willing to put himself and his familyat jeopardy to serve that cause.

Are you sure he wasn't motivated by a hell of a lot of cash?

As a high profile turncoat, he certainly would have enjoyed considerable....financial privilege. Betraying the Polish army and the legitimate Polish state for a few dollars is deplorable.

Not very surprising, but nonetheless interesting is how many people base their belief system and general worldly knowledge on facts that end with "But, I thought"...

Dare to take the next step?