Was the Polish/ Lithuanian commonwealth a European power?

.....wsiadł do małego fiata is odjechał w siną dal;)

You meant your smart, trimmed, pompous c*nts couldn't bear loneliness anymore? Beautiful they were ;) We were seduced. Can you blame us?!


Does it mean "ant wall of Christianity"? ;)


Requies aeterna to a kingdom with such "wisdom", "civilization" and "beauty".
It was a matter of time for this abominable joke to be buried. Now the horizon is clear again.

No no no, not at all! But the thought of not sharing all the knowledge was terrible :)


I'm not quite sure


:O

and wee **** is floating believing itself men at war .....


white stallion and into a sunset ...... that's about right :)

It is not as horrible as realization that there was nothing to share except some plagirized from Ancient Greece works of a German astronomer. And that is terrible - to hide the absence of intelligence from sharing with others.

Yes, it was. It was true European power. It had potentialy direct continuity with Sarmatia Europae and Great Moravia. It threten to reverse process of Slavic assimilation (Germanization) and to increase Slavic influence to the maximum. Too bad that Russia and Polish/Lithuanian commonwealth didn`t coordinate in order to restore, expand and secure Polish western and Russian eastern borders. How great failure

Of course. Did you know that after the fall of Kosciuszko insurrection, Polish officers
came under command of Jerzy Karadjordjevic and then it was from Poland the idea
of bringing to Belgrade the son of Jerzy - Aleksander. His minsters very often consulted
the Polish emmigration politicians and cooperated.

Before that our brotherly Serbs were looking with hope towards Warsaw with every
war declared against Turkey - hope for Serbian freedom. Russian power has grown
while Polish blood was shed against Turks but we have the honour today to say
that never has Poland allied itself to Turkey against Slavs.

That's why Krasiński said about Poland that she "wstanie królową słowiańskich pół"
("she will rise as the queen of Slavic lands").

One of the reasons I like you, Crow, is that you are one of not many people who remember
that, even today, despite all the anti-Polish propaganda. Slava to you, brate!

;)

Cossack pirates, however, were raiding wealthy merchant port cities in the heart of the Ottoman Empire, which were just two days away by boat from the mouth of the Dnieper River. By 1615 and 1625, Cossacks had even managed to raze townships on the outskirts of Istanbul, forcing the Ottoman Sultan to flee his palace.[9] Consecutive treaties between the Ottoman Empire and the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth called for both parties to keep the Cossacks and Tatars in check

Our own bandits dragging our own country into war against Turkey. No wonder that
in times of cease fire or during peace treaties Ottomans and the Commowealth tried
to keep them in check.

You wish. Kopernikus is already yours ;)


I would call them by their real name "pus*y treaties" signed by scared traitors as is the custom in Polish history.

It is quite sad how hatred and inferiority complexes come out of people sometimes
and it is also sad how wrong can you be sometimes about people.

I thought better of you, Nathan, but with this single sentence showing your true
colours you have shown me (and anybody else with a little bit of common sense)
who you really are.

Thank you for your honesty - you are a slanderer and a liar but you're not trying to hide it.
You are full of hatred and grudges but at least you're not making a secret out of it.

I always try to find something good in people. In you, Nathan, I find one good
quality - you're not a hypocrite. I hope that 400 thousand Ukrainians working
in Poland (only 200 thousand of them legally) also have this quality in them.

Well, at least you're only lying, slandering and hating, Nathan. You're not murdering
children, women and elderly people and run away like cowards when it comes to fight
armed forces as is the custom in Ukrainian history.

its well known fact that Karadjordjevic dynasty (true national Serbian dynasty from time of resistance to Turks) won Serbian throne (later Yugoslavian) thanks to Polish help. Prince Czartorisky was very involved. Yugoslavia was even born thanks to Polish help to Serbia. Very few people in wide public is aware that Yugoslavia was actually Serbian-Polish project in salvation of Serbs and southern Slavs in general. Our survivor and consolidation was in best Polish interest. Before that, role of Kingdom of Serbia was to assist in liberation of Poland, to support Poland on her path to independence. In agony, Polish intelligentsia couldn`t count on help from Britain and France. Their schemes greatly contributed to tragic Poland`s situation. Anyway, during Balkan wars and in WWI 1/3 of entire Serbian Balkan population was annihilated and died for liberation of Balkan from Turkish and Austro-Hungarian rule. So, Racowie paid price and Poland won her independence and Western and Southern Slavs consolidated. Czech Masarik also played on Serbian card and Czechs profited. Slovaks, Slovenians, Croats, Bulgarians, too.

No wonder that Czech president said for newspapers- Mlada Fronta Dnes daily, after Cezch Rep. under pressure from so called west recognized separation of Kosovo from Serbia: `How ashamed I was`. No wonder that Polish president Kaczinsky confront with Tusk when it came to Kosovo. No wonder that we see public an political turmoils all over Slavic world when it comes to Serbs.

But, tell me more please about Jerzy Karadjordjevic. Do you talk of Aleksander Karadjordjevic, son of Petar Karadjordjevic? Jerzy was his codename?

I'm not a specialist in Serbian history. I only know what they taught us in school
about Polish co-opertion with different Slavic states (including Serbia). A lot of
time has passed since my school years, so maybe I confused the names.

brate, then you are demented? How sad

Well, I may be, but I found this link...

zgapa.pl/zgapedia/Dynastia_Karadziordziewici%C3%B3w.html


Jerzy - the founder of Karadjordjevic dynasty. This is who I meant when I wrote...


... looks like I'm not that "demented" after all.

You are welcome. But where did I lie or slander? If one country did something on an almost constant basis, I see no reason to hide it. You said you'd never allied with Turks against Slavs and I proved you wrong. How is it a lie? You allied many times with Russians (which are half Turks, half Mongols) to destroy a Slavic nation aspiring to become free. Whom did I slander? And why is that necessity to call up Ukrainians working in Poland? What does it have to do with history? Does Harry mention 1 million of Poles working in Britain, when you ridicule yourself in parade demands? Of course, not.

Torq, don't pretend to be or don't feel offended. That's what I do. And this is what you taught me.

sounds like sulking to me, man up Torque ( I like that spelling)

Aphrodisiac, you are Polish/Ukrainian so where do you stand?

yes, yes. Thank you



sorry, of course that you aren`t demented. Your mind is brilliant


Aphrodisiac i want that you tell him that you are against NATO. Tell him! Then, we should talk about Sarmatian Alliance

For example, when you deny the UPA crimes or try to ridicule the momories of Polish
survivors of massacres by talking about "beautiful Polish stories".


For example, when you say that you see no difference between Piłsudski and Stalin
or when you talk nonsense about "scared traitors as is the custom in Polish history."
(whatever you meant by that).


How did you prove me wrong? Peace treaties and cease fires are to be respected
and if some criminals (as in case of cossak pirates) are breaking them, then the
actions have to be taken against petty bandits.


Pretty much the entire Polish nation with your numerous comments about I Rzeczpospolita,
Armia Krajowa, and I don't know who else with labeling Poles "scared traitors".


Half Turks, half Mongols? Another idiotic statement. Seriously, Nathan - how do you
expect people to treat you seriously if you come up with bullcr*p like that.


Read my post again - I simply expressed my hope that they are equally open
and honest about their feelings towards Poland as you are.


Erm... as far as I know Harry isn't British, so why would he mention Poles working in Britain?
(especially when talking about WW2 history).


I'm not offended - don't be ridiculous. Disappointed - yes, but not offended.


What did I teach you for heaven's sake? To come to a forum as a guest and insult
the hosts? To work as a tool in Russian hands, who want nothing else than to see
Polish and Ukrainian nations drifting apart and hostile against one another?


Really? A philosopher with such an apalling reading comprehension? Strange...


I fell that the close season for philosophers is coming to an end on PF ;)


LOL

Too bad you weren't my history teacher in highschool, Crow. I'd much rather hear
"Your mind is brilliant" than "Sit down Z*****wski - you're talking nonsense again!".

NO, I am 100% Ukrainian, but I am staying away from those discussions. The slagging matches of "Who is right and who is wrong" are not for me. Nobody is right and nobody is wrong and most of us know our own truth about things, including Polish - Ukrainian relationships.


let it go Torq, I have nothing to say on the Polish/Ukrainian issues, because my personal relationships with Poles are good, so why would I wind myself up on PF.

Very well said, aphrodisiac! Some things are best left alone (let sleeping dogs lie). As George Bush famously once said, "all of our history is in the past" :)

He's not demented, but I am :D

Help please?


No, but instead he slanders the name of all the Polish pilots who died over the North Sea during the Battle of Britain, saving that precious Island of his. He does everything in his power to disregard Polish contribution, instead saying that Poles should be happy they were given any equipement to fight on. May I remind you all, that Poles were not originally to be flying fighter aircraft sorties, and only when too many British started being killed, and there was a huge pilot shortage, were Poles, Czechs etc, sent up to fight for them. So really, it was Britain sending them up, not Poles themselves demanding it.

But really, Poles are already used to this. We are seen as anti-semetic hotbed today, the fad to call concentration camps during WW2 (Polish) rather than German, has become more and more popular, although thousands of Poles died working in Zegota organization, and saved more than 50000 when they could have done absolutely nothing, and still be seen the same by media. Question could be raised, how many of you would save a stranger, under the threat that getting caught would not only mean your death, but your whole familly too?

NBC (or Nazi Broadcasting Corporation) has done a fantastic job of slandering Poles, ridiculing Polish intelligence and putting them at the same level as Nazi occupiers.

So, why should this be any different?

I'll keep you guessing ;)

put cross on yourself

How many times? And Counter-clock wise, or clockwise? And which hand?

call them whatever does please you ........
* Cossacks bandits were robbing Ottoman merchants and they were hiding in their caves while Ottoman army retaliate against population of Polish Kingdom and mostly Rusin people suffered, people you claim to be Ukrainian:)

so make up your mind Cossacks or Rusin's?


* so your heroes were celebrating in their hiding places while their people suffered consequences of their greed or were their their people ? or maybe their were just bandits?

there Ukrainian heroes, kill children and unarmed, steal whatever there is to be stolen, and hide and let your family take consequences of their actions - well thanks Nathan :)

Some other historians have another theory on the origin of name 'kiev.'

khazaria.com/khazar-history.html

The great capital city of modern Ukraine, Kiev, was founded by Khazars or Hungarians. Kiev is a Turkic place name (Küi = riverbank + ev = settlement). A community of Jewish Khazars lived in Kiev.

Exactly "OR" ;) Nobody knows.

Hun-garians or On-Ogurians (means ten-arrows or ten-tribes in old turkic) were using same language, a version of turkic language anyway. Note that Khazar was formed after kok-turk empire that was formed after collapse of hun-empire. So, languages of Hungarians and Khazars were same. Just the time difference. More reliable sources (alternative sources to the western sources and russian sources however) say kiev was formed by Khazars (jewish turks and jewish slavs.)