That's why it just should simply stop...But if I guess if you ask the average Pole on the street, you will hear that he doesn't hate Jews (that much).
I agree, however some people will have the tendency to discuss the topic. I mostly avoid those discussions because I have made peace with the issue a long time ago and have my own way of looking at it.
I really hate it when two non-Poles discuss how Poles think.
If you were referring to mine and MG exchange then you are wrong. I am Polish and I think that you might find my thinking not congruent with yours, therefore your logic is flawed here.
If you meant somebody else, then please disregard this post.
Thanks and all the best.
Besides, in the past I accommodated the Polish anti-Semitic way of thinking but it just DID not sit well with my values, so I gave myself some time to think about it, had some exposure to Jewish people and I came to the conclusion and I am not anti- Semitic at all. See, once we are grown- ups , we can make a decision to come to our own conclusions, instead of repeating what other say/think.
really hate it when two non-Poles discuss how Poles think.
I was just saying that I think that most Poles don't hate Jews, just like most ppl in this world don't hate Jews. Poles are like any other ppl on Earth.
No, I'm not Polish, however, from a human perspective I can state that. And I think most ppl are the same anyway.
Edit: and, sweetie, you know that my main mission is to destroy racism and anti-semitism is a form of racism, no matter how you turn it. Has nothing to do with the fact that I am half-Jewish, but just a human being who realises that there is just one Earth and we all have to do with it, wether we like it or not.
M-G don't take it personally, it was just a general statement and it was mainly directed at aphrodisiac anyway. I'm just getting tired of discussions about Poles and Jews - nothing ever comes out of this and even when it seems like we have all reached a compromise suddenly someone new speaks out (wh'os usually neither Jewish nor has ever been to Poland) and without bothering to read the previous comments says something stupid and the whole argument starts again, everyone acting like they completely forgot what they said two pages earlier.
aphrodisiac
Your profile states that you speak SOME Polish, therefore you are hardly an expert when it comes to Poland or opinions of people who live in Poland EVEN if you might be Polish GENETICALLY. Also statements like...
Polish anti-Semitic way of thinking
...automatically make me lose respect for people who say them and makes me sure that they are not knowledgable about the way of thinking of Poles.
Oh by the way, Egypt is going to build a huge wall along their border with the Gaza Strip. To stop the gun smuggling by Palestinians. Don't hear anybody here about that. But oh dear if Israël builds one. Then it's a crime against humanity. Does anybody here at all know why the Israeli built that wall?
I'm Bosnian and I fully support my Polish brothers. Both Bosnians and Poles were oppresed by communist jewish run regimes but the western media forgets about this!!
The jews hate Poles and other Slavs but the west ignores this aswell. All Slavs should stand up against jewish zionist oppresion.
Zivjela Bosna i Polska. Long live Bosnia and Poland
Well, Bosnia was largely a Christian country until Izetbegovic got ahead of himself. Now, I have nothing against the Muslims there, far from it, but the presence of Muslims wasn't exactly welcome. Sarajevo is perhaps the strangest town I have been in. I met and shook hands with a nice Muslim guy there but I can't help but feel that Bosnia was changed from being a Christian nation rather by stealth.
Feel free to correct me, rock. It's just my understanding based on my reading but my reading has often misled me in the past. It just depends on the sources you choose. It is my understanding that Izetbegovic wanted a Caliphate imposed on Bosnia and for Bosnia to become a predominantely Muslim country. This didn't sit well with Tudjman and Milosevic who, at Kakardevo, wanted to divide Bosnia between themselves, maintaining the Christian element. With Western intervention, Izetbegovic got onside with them and Bosnia started to change more and more. Is it true that 1970 marked the turning point, that Bosnia became more Muslim than Christian, rock? It was certainly the case around WWII that Bosnia was a more Christian country.
I'm not an authority on Bosniaks, no, but I have read and watched a lot so can have some input.
As I said, feel free to correct me. I like you as a poster so we can discuss without going to war as those uncompromising people did ;) ;) ;) Agreed? :)
When you say Bosnia was largely a Christain country, it is sth like ''South Africa was largely a white country but suddenly blacks began to rule the country''.
Seanus are you fine ? Today majority of the people in Bosnia says we are muslim. What is your offer ? Telling them '' you are wrong, there is christainity inside you. Feel it please''
Many Bosniaks moved in due to the crushing effect of WWII on Serbia and Yugoslavia generally. It was only in 1971 that Bosniaks became the majority group. After that, it was Western help and the allowance of Saudi aid that helped preserve the new status quo.
Many were offered substantial tex relief to convert to Islam. What kind of nonsense is that, rock?
I love the music, rock :) The earliest history was neolithic. Then the Romans. As I said, 1971 was the turning point. Is it a question of right to the land, from whatever source/base, or is it more that the demographic changed and that the Serbs have to accept that? Bosnia was Islamised by the Ottoman Empire as you know but does that mean that it is for all time to be Islamic? It was Christianised first.
What I'm asking is, should crusaders alone be allowed to change the history of the land? What if America went into Nigeria and claimed control of the vast oil fields near there? Would Nigeria become an American colony? What if America decided to fully take it over? What of Nigerian history and evolution then?
Europeans are not developed in fact. They can not admit a muslim country in Europe. Unfortunately you are one of them. Maybe you are not a real christain but culturally you are so.
Why do you think Bosniaks convert to islam voluntarily Seanus ?
They gave a desicion and no way to change it. If you want ask a Bosniak in Sarajevo.
This is the history of Bogomils in Bosnia. Bosnians were in fight with orthodox and catholic world before they choose islam.
The Bogomils spread westwards and settled first in Serbia; but at the end of the 12th century Stefan Nemanja, king of Serbia, burned them, persecuted them and expelled them from the country. Large numbers took refuge in Bosnia, where they were known under the name of Patarenes or Patareni. There, they were also brought into connection with the indigenous Bosnian Church, which was also considered heretical by the Pope and Byzantines, but was not actually Bogomil in nature. From Bosnia, their influence extended into Italy (Piedmont). The Hungarians undertook many crusades against the heretics in Bosnia, but towards the close of the 15th century, the conquest of that country by the Turks put an end to their persecution. It is alleged that a large number of the Bosnian Paterenes, and especially the nobles, embraced Islam.
Well Rock, you still haven't got my point. Quote me some history and I'll quote you some earlier history. Where does the ultimate claim to land rest? Can you show me?
Well Rock, you still haven't got my point. Quote me some history and I'll quote you some earlier history. Where does the ultimate claim to land rest? Can you show me?
It was the history before islam Seanus. So, you don't like this voluntarily passing to islam part. What can I do to satisfy your thesis Seanus ?
What do you mean by '' Where does the ultimate claim to land rest?''
What nonsense! Zionists are and many Rabbis oppose them. Even then, it is a certain type of Zionist that causes problems. Some Zionists want to see Jewish people united and there's nothing wrong with that at all, it's just that they trespassed :(
There is nothing wrong with this voluntary passing to Islam and I even said that above. There is earlier history in Bosnia and you are ignoring it.
At what point can you say that Bosnia belongs to such and such a group, rock? It's VERY relevant. If you can't answer it, you can't really lay claim to the land as there will always be competing claims in such a multi-ethnic country.
At what point can you say that Bosnia belongs to such and such a group, rock? It's VERY relevant. If you can't answer it, you can't really lay claim to the land as there will always be competing claims in such a multi-ethnic country.
I believe a country must be ruled by the majority taking into consideration the rights of minorities. In Bosnia-Herzegovina case, majority in population are Bosniaks, minorities are Croats and Serbs.
Dayton aggrement will not be a solution for sure who gives exactly equal management rights to Bosniaks, Serbs and Croats. On the other hand, in Bosnia Hercegovina there is a Serbian republic including Serebrenitza, Foca etc. cities where Bosniaks were majority before war.
Think, there is Serbia, there is Serbian republic inside Bosnia Hercegovina and there is 1/3 Serbian rule in Bosnia Hercegovina. This is not fair.
I agree with your first point, rock. Maybe that will surprise you but it stands to reason that that should be the case.
You think an agreement brokered by Americans should hold more weight than the history of the region and the passing of hands?
Serbia was the majority before WWII and even for some time afterwards. It was the major power for so long and is still the second largest group there. I think it is a little unfair that they control so much but, rightly or wrongly, they have been in Bosnia for a long time with homes and past generations.
