Polish hatred towards Jews...

Seanus 15 | 19668

4 Jul 2009 / #421

This thread gives credibility to the fact that Poles may overreact to Jewish teenagers in Poland. They do have a bad rep though for being grubby and greedy.

Grzegorz_ 51 | 6138

4 Jul 2009 / #422

And of course an ethnic Jew can never be an ethnic Pole

Of course... Do you say he can ? LOL !

Pan Kazimierz 1 | 195

5 Jul 2009 / #423

She had a Jewish father. That does not make her Jewish. A Jew's faith is passed down from the mother's side. And then there's the bit you always fail to quote from that page "she asked for baptism and converted to the Catholic faith." That does make her a Catholic.

And well into her career, she not only fully rejected the Catholic faith but also any religion, very aggressively pronounced it, and carried out such convictions by murdering Catholics. That doesn't make her Catholic, it makes her an extremely assertive atheist. Your argument hinges on 'Once a Catholic, always a Catholic', as if it were a permanent decision that was impossible to undo. Except that Catholocism is a faith, not an ethnicity. It can be acquired and discarded at whim, and in her case, clearly was. That should be extremely obvious, which leads me to believe that you're being very deliberate in your twisting and skewed misrepresentation of the facts here, as opposed to simply being ignorant of the truth (which was laid out before your very eyes here multiple times) - have you no shame, sir? If you must twist and rearrange the facts to make a point, it's probably not one worth making.

Yes, those damn upity Jews! Asking for their property back!

Asking for someone else's property back, actually. Someone that no longer exists.

You should get out onto the streets and remind them of the lessons taught to them in Krakow, Lublin and Kielce after the war!

What are you, Giles Coren? I've only been here two days and already seen you bring this up multiple times. Does the mention of the word 'Kielce' suddenly cause you to lose all understanding of written language, thus explaining (beyond just plain extreme thickheadedness) why you don't get it, are you a fool, a liar, or ar you just not willing to accept the by now widely-known fact that these events were staged by Soviets? You seem to have a very deep-seated desire to want to believe the Polish are to blame.

Poland isn't responsible for the Holocaust. But why should Poland profit from the Holocaust? Maybe the Vatican should claim some money. Then we can start discussing their tax status in Poland.

Why should totally unrelated Jews, with nothing in common with anyone related to the event aside from a common religion, profit from it? And what, exactly, is the tax status of world Zionist organizations in Poland, oh all-seeing and logical Harry, hmm? Your argument fails there, I think. So, back to square one: what right do world Jewish organizations have to Polish 'reparations' that the Vatican doesn't, beyond that they can play a victim card powerful enough to make world leaders walk on eggshells when they start making demands they should logically never see fulfilled?

It certainly continues to profit from the holocaust, despite having thrown out almost all of the Polish Jews who survived the holocaust.

I assume that by 'thrown out', you mean 'provided hard military escort and financial aid to Jews abandoning the country in favor of emigration to Israel, despite their obvious lack of obligation to do any such thing' (a strange use of language, that)? Or are you referring to Stalin's deportations, which are completely unrelated to any decisions of the modern Polish government in any way whatsoever, in which case this is merely a shadow argument intended to help your thesis (already exposed as having been backed by mere shadow-and-dust logic), appear logically sound? (I understand that you're an English teacher, which could explain the love for forming intricate webs of B.S. to create the illusion of invincible and unquestionable truth - that's what literature nuts do for fun with their spare time, isn't it?)

So there he is saying that he isn't Jewish.

You're right; there he is saying quite clearly, and with little room for interpretation, that he proudly belongs to the Jewish people.

ZIMMY 6 | 1601

6 Jul 2009 / #424

Why do you guys even answer let alone tolerate the bizarre contrarian Harry? It's ridiculous to even debate the Jewishness of people who are obviously Jewish. It's like talking to a rock.

Heh,heh,heh, I've long ago realized that this is how Harry 'gets his jollies'. Don't help him...

1jola 14 | 1875

6 Jul 2009 / #425

Harry:
A Jew's faith is passed down from the mother's side.

Yeah, I have heard that before, why is that?.

No DNA testing in the old days. You can be sure who gave birth; the father, it could be anybody. It does make sense.

SeanBM 34 | 5786

6 Jul 2009 / #426

You can be sure who gave birth; the father, it could be anybody. It does make sense.

Ah, really, that simple? ok, sounds like a good reason.

sjam 2 | 541

6 Jul 2009 / #427

Crosses of Auschwitz: Nationalism and Religion in Post-Communist Poland
Author: Genevieve Zubrzycki
ISBN: 9780226993041

Excerpts of Chapter One from Bookdaily.com

...Every nation has its myth of foundation: its linked plots of growth and development, crisis and resistance, doom, victory, and rebirth. These myths change over time, with the times, but always remain, their origins occluded; it is in that sense, and only that sense, that they are timeless. The most common and pervasive Polish myth is that of Poland's intrinsic Catholicity: Polonia semper fidelis (Poland always faithful), the bulwark of Christendom defending Europe against the infidel (however defined); the Christ of nations, martyred for the sins of the world, resurrected for the world's salvation; a nation whose identity is conserved and guarded by its defender, the Roman Catholic Church, and shielded by its Queen, the miraculous Black Madonna, Our Lady of Czestochowa; a nation that has given the world a pope and rid the Western world of Communism ...

...I analyze the formation and transformation of Polish national identity and nationalism, and investigate the construction of the association between Polishness and Roman Catholicism, too often taken for granted. Before undertaking an anatomy of the War of the Crosses and its multiple layers, we must know something of its constituent parts: the making of the cross as a dominant symbol and martyrdom as a core narrative, the representation of Jews as "Other," and Catholicism as a key element of Polish identity.

Below: University of Chicago Press synopsis of Crosses of Auschwitz: Nationalism and Religion in Post-Communist Poland.[/url]

In the summer and fall of 1998, ultranationalist Polish Catholics erected hundreds of crosses outside Auschwitz, setting off a fierce debate that pitted Catholics and Jews against one another. While this controversy had ramifications that extended well beyond Poland's borders, Geneviève Zubrzycki sees it as a particularly crucial moment in the development of post-Communist Poland's statehood and its changing relationship to Catholicism.

In The Crosses of Auschwitz, Zubrzycki skillfully demonstrates how this episode crystallized latent social conflicts regarding the significance of Catholicism in defining "Polishness" and the role of anti-Semitism in the construction of a new Polish identity. Since the fall of Communism, the binding that has held Polish identity and Catholicism together has begun to erode, creating unease among ultranationalists. Within their construction of Polish identity also exists pride in the Polish people's long history of suffering. For the ultranationalists, then, the crosses at Auschwitz were not only symbols of their ethno-Catholic vision, but also an attempt to lay claim to what they perceived was a Jewish monopoly over martyrdom.

press.uchicago.edu/presssite/metadata.epl?mode=synopsis&bookkey=184952

The Crosses of Auschwitz received the ASA's Distinguished Book Award in the Sociology of Religion, and the Orbis Books Prize, awarded annually by the American Association for the Advancement of Slavic Studies to "the best book in any discipline, on any aspect of Polish affairs."

Harry

6 Jul 2009 / #428

And well into her career, she not only fully rejected the Catholic faith but also any religion, very aggressively pronounced it, and carried out such convictions by murdering Catholics.

Thanks for putting that sentence first. It told me that there would be no point at all in reading any of the rest of your post.

Pan Kazimierz 1 | 195

6 Jul 2009 / #429

Not for you, there wouldn't. You're not interested in the truth, Harry. I know that now.
Thank you for affirming what I'd originally suspected: that you wouldn't respond to my post, because you'd only respond if you thought you could pull the wool over someone's eyes. I'd already figured you lacked ethics, now I see you as a coward, as well. Thanks for that.

Harry

6 Jul 2009 / #430

You're not interested in the truth, Harry. I know that now.

Perhaps you could be so kind as to provide some proof that Ms Albright murdered anybody?

Thank you for affirming what I'd originally suspected: that you wouldn't respond to my post, because you'd only respond if you thought you could pull the wool over someone's eyes.

I didn't respond because I didn't bother reading past the first sentence. This forum already one drooling moron banging on and on and on about Serbia (and more than one who do the same about Jews): so you are not needed here. Goodbye.

Pan Kazimierz 1 | 195

6 Jul 2009 / #431

Harry

Perhaps you could be so kind as to provide some proof that Ms Albright murdered anybody?

Who is this Ms. Albright character? I was quite clearly referring to a Ms. Julia Brystiger:

One of her victims was a man named Szafarzynski, of the Olsztyn office of the Polish People's Party, who died after interrogation carried out by Brystygier.

Cited from source: [A. Rószkiewicz-Litwinowiczowa "Trudne decyzje. Kontrwywiad Okregu Warszawa AK 1943-1944, wiezienie 1949-1954", Panstwowy Instytut Wydawniczy, Warszawa 1991, page 106]

This is to what is referred to as 'Ad Hominem', of which you've been accussed a number of times here. Very nice, Harry, very strong response. 'When logic and reason fail', eh?

So, I've countered a number your arguments, givin them quite the sound beating about the ears, and exposed how nonfunctional they really are in a single post. You've responded pretending not to know their content, which shows you most likely a coward, or just intellectually lazy at best, and continued with your stall with what appeared to be an attempt to change the subject. Do you really think personal insults are the best way to finish off, Harry? Do you really think you're looking any more respectable in the eyes of the other forum members after this exchange? Because you've done nothing whatsoever to counter my arguments, and I think people can see that. And calling me a moron (without even bothering to try to back the statement up, in the manner of a five-year-old child) and bringing attention to the fact that I'm new here really doesn't help as much as I think you'd like it to. Is that really the best you've got?

Harry

6 Jul 2009 / #432

Who is this Ms. Albright character? I was quite clearly referring to a Ms. Julia Brystiger

Apologies, I thought you were referring to a Jewish born Catholic woman who certain Poles like to talk about murdering Catholics.

Do you really think personal insults are the best way to finish off, Harry? … in the manner of a five-year-old child

You might have slightly better results with your ‘how dare you resort to personal insults’ routine if you didn’t then resort to personal insults yourself.

You've responded pretending not to know their content, which shows you most likely a coward, or just intellectually lazy at best, and continued with your stall with what appeared to be an attempt to change the subject.

I was not pretending to not know anything: I stated that I didn’t read you post. However, I’ll happily do so now and tear your comments to shreds.

And well into her career [post edited for reasons of boredom] it's probably not one worth making.

Yawn. My point was that it is not correct to call her a Jew. She had a Jewish father but herself was a Catholic.

Yes, those damn upity Jews! Asking for their property back!
Asking for someone else's property back, actually. Someone that no longer exists.

If you would like to claim that all claims by Jewish Poles are for property which did not belong to them, please do so. It’ll no doubt help your acceptance by the rabidly Teraz Polska crew here for you to be seen telling obviously anti-semitic lies here. Alternatively you could try not posting lies.

What are you, Giles Coren?

No. Cohen is British, Jewish, a polonophobe and a moron. I’m none of those things. And yes I did write to the Times to complain about that article.

Does the mention of the word 'Kielce' suddenly cause you to lose all understanding of written language, thus explaining (beyond just plain extreme thickheadedness) why you don't get it, are you a fool, a liar, or ar you just not willing to accept the by now widely-known fact that these events were staged by Soviets?

I see. So all of the participants in the Kielce pogrom were actually Russians (or at least from the USSR). OK, keep believing in your revisionist version of history. Got any comments about the Krakow pogrom or the 118 Jews murdered in the Lublin district between the summer of 1944 and the fall of 1946? All the staged by the Soviets?

You seem to have a very deep-seated desire to want to believe the Polish are to blame.

You seem to have a very deep-seated desire to want to believe that all Poles are angels and never did anything wrong (apart from the Jews, and they aren’t real Poles to you anyway).

Why should totally unrelated Jews, with nothing in common with anyone related to the event aside from a common religion, profit from it?

Rough translation: you can’t answer the question so you instead ask another question. Good debating skills there!

And what, exactly, is the tax status of world Zionist organizations in Poland, oh all-seeing and logical Harry, hmm? Your argument fails there, I think.

You name them, and I’ll find out about their tax status.

You are going to fit in here! You manage to interpret armed guards taking people out of the country as a “hard military escort” and the process of stealing a person’s possessions as “financial aid”. And then you manage to describe deportations which took place in 1968 as “Stalin’s”, despite the bloke having died some 15 years previously. A stroke of sheer genius!

I understand that you're an English teacher

I understand that you know nothing at all about me and have been wrong in every one of your guesses so far.

which could explain the love for forming intricate webs of B.S. to create the illusion of invincible and unquestionable truth - that's what literature nuts do for fun with their spare time, isn't it?

It could explain it, were I to be an English teacher. As for what literature nuts do in their spare time: I watched 12 episodes of 24 (season two) back to back yesterday, what are the chances of me being a literature nut? But do keep making guesses about me: it’s as good to see you being completely wrong about me as it is to see you being completely wrong about history.

So, I've countered a number your arguments, givin them quite the sound beating about the ears, and exposed how nonfunctional they really are in a single post.

Wow! I knew you liked to reinterpret history and revise the facts, but I never thought that you would try to revise such recent history in such a spectacularly pathetic fashion. You make David Irving look like a serious respectable historian (and no doubt you think that he is one too).

Is that really the best you've got?

Would you mind if I answered your question with a question (bad form I know but indulge me): is that really the best you’ve got?

Pan Kazimierz 1 | 195

6 Jul 2009 / #433

Apologies, I thought you were referring to a Jewish born Catholic woman who certain Poles like to talk about murdering Catholics.

Oh. Excuse my conduct, then. I'd understood that you were ducking, which ticked me off somewhat. Let us continue as gentlemen, then.

Yawn. My point was that it is not correct to call her a Jew. She had a Jewish father but herself was a Catholic.

And my point was that she was an atheist during the span of her... controversial career. I only mentioned this to point out that it was not correct to make this point, with which I agree, that she was not a Jew, by insisting that she was instead a Catholic.

I'll not try to turn the game around with the obvious "if you'd like to claim that all claims by Jews for property in Poland are made by the legal heirs" question. Instead:

In my mind, the distinction 'those Jews' implies 'Jews that are not Polish', and by extension have no claim to any aforementioned property. Otherwise, I'd describe them as and promote their indiscriminate treatment as 'those Poles', instead.

No. Cohen is British, Jewish, a polonophobe and a moron. I’m none of those things. And yes I did write to the Times to complain about that article.

Apologies, then. Obviously, you're not who I'd thought you were. Suppose I've been reading a small portion of your posts not representative of the whole, all of those being anti-Pole pretty much pro-everything else.

Perhaps it doesn't help that I think of that guy every time I see 'Kielce'.

definition: pogrom:

organized persecution of an ethnic group

By said definition, Kielce was a Russian pogrom. Who organized?
Kraków: wasn't familiar with it before, but one death and four injured hardly sounds like a world-beater of anti-Semitism. Same said for Lublin... sorta. Can't seem to find evidence of organized anti-Semitism there? If your argument stops at 'There are and were people in Poland who are/were raging anti-Semitics', let me know so we can just agree, note the regrettability of this fact, and move on. If you're trying to suggest that levels of anti-Semitism in Poland are/were not only not comparatively low keeping in mind context and time but in fact unusually high, on the other hand...

You seem to have a very deep-seated desire to want to believe that all Poles are angels and never did anything wrong (apart from the Jews, and they aren’t real Poles to you anyway).

I never suggested any such thing. I am in fact entirely for the view that Polish Jews should be treated exactly as other Poles... no worse, no better, no such special significance attached to the distinction.

Rough translation: you can’t answer the question so you instead ask another question. Good debating skills there!

Rough translation: you did exactly what I did in the post you quoted. Compliment.

You name them, and I’ll find out about their tax status.

All right, let's start with the government of Israel, since they're the main ones pushing the transfer of heirless property to Jewish organizations.

I'm sorry, but I have no idea what you're talking about here? I've seen nothing in my (brief) search of the topic following your assertations indicating forced exhile, or 1968 deportations. What I have seen is 'mass emigration' - not to be confused, if that's what you were referring to.

I understand that you know nothing at all about me and have been wrong in every one of your guesses so far.

Apologies, then. I seem to have remembered reading that about you somewhere, but can no see no such thing. A grave mistake on my part, sorry.

You make David Irving look like a serious respectable historian (and no doubt you think that he is one too).

Personally, the only thing I like about that clown is the fact that he served a prison sentence for his writings. Justice served well, in my opinion.

Would you mind if I answered your question with a question (bad form I know but indulge me): is that really the best you’ve got?

I'll humor the question: though I enjoy History, 'the best I've got' will more likely emerge in a topic more closely related to Political Science, a personal favorite, if you're honestly asking about my best.

1jola 14 | 1875

7 Jul 2009 / #434

That's not really sportsman like, Harry, is it. I find PK a healthy addition to this forum as I think I might learn something if he chooses to stay.

I smell fear.

Just an unrelated note. AHF is a WWII forum that often has topics relating to Poland. There are some rules, one being that you need to back up your position with sources. If interested, visit this recent topic:

forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=154917

Harry

7 Jul 2009 / #435

I find PK a healthy addition to this forum as I think I might learn something if he chooses to stay.

Now that I actually bothered to read his posts (and not just the first sentence), I get the same feeling too.

Just an unrelated note. AHF is a WWII forum that often has topics relating to Poland.

I know that forum. I use it for research rather than discussion.

researchas - | 23

11 Jul 2009 / #436

Its really bad that poles hate jews. Jews are the best people and very hospitable.
Not only that poles hate japanese, indians, chinese and germans. I dont know why?, whats wrong with poles. I met poles everywhere us,uk, germany, sweden, austria, iceland, singapore, poland everywhere and I had bad experience with the poles. There are other east europeans also but I must say that Poles are the worst people I ever met in my life.I think this has something to do with their culture and education. They are taught to hate non whites and jews. Polish should respect jews, they have given a lot to the mankind.

A community of 14 million that has won 180 nobel prizes. Great. I salute this jewish community. May God bless the jews . What have the poles achieved apart from Madam Curie? Poles should be shameful. They are always spreading the hate message against jews and hating them.

Torq

11 Jul 2009 / #437

Its really bad that poles people hate jews.

It's really bad that you're a troll.

Not only that poles people hate japanese, indians, chinese and germans.

Why such a short list? You forgot to add Martians, Eskimos, Cyclists etc. etc.

everywhere I had bad experience with the poles.

Maybe because you're an arsehole? Polish people usually don't take kindly to arseholes.

I must say that Poles are the worst people I ever met in my life.

:) Coming from such a horrible wank*er as yourself, Researchas - I'll take
that as a compliment.

I think this has something to do with their culture and education.

They are taught to hate non whites and jews.

In my books everyone has right to be stupid, but you are REALLY
abusing that privilege, Researchas.

Sophie - | 10

12 Jul 2009 / #438

I've read some of this stuff (but not all thankfully) ........the level of this debate is low.

Suffice to say I have observed anti-semitism in the older generation both on the English and Polish side, in spite of Polish relatives murdered alongside Jews at Auschwitz.

There is no excuse: fact is, many people were/are antisemitic. I have a Polish history book published early 1939 which deals with this subject in a much more level way than you might imagine could be possible then: the Nazis whipped it up for their own purposes.

I'm not in any way anti-semitic, but I am anti-Zionist......

The Palestinians have been forced into a ghetto worthy of the Warsaw one: it's time the Israelis recognised the folly of racism.

Seanus 15 | 19668

12 Jul 2009 / #439

Well said, Sophie!!

Bzibzioh

12 Jul 2009 / #440

oh, my favorite racist and bigot is back for another round of Polish slander. Looking for more "news paper clips and other visual evidence in which there is too much of hate for indians" in Poland?

Jihozapad

12 Jul 2009 / #441

oh, my favorite racist and bigot is back for another round of Polish slander.

He's just johncardwell in a turban, isn't he?

Yet another idiot on a bandwidth-wasting troll-fest who would be banned in minutes on most other boards, but somehow gets away with it on here.

Bzibzioh

12 Jul 2009 / #442

Yet another idiot on a bandwidth-wasting troll-fest who would be banned in minutes on most other boards, but somehow gets away with it on here.

Agree. I don't get their policy at all. This Indian troll is going away with stuff no Pole would go away with if he said it about any other nationality, but especially black Americans or Jews. Double standards and bias as hell.

1jola 14 | 1875

12 Jul 2009 / #443

I'm not in any way anti-semitic, but I am anti-Zionist......

Oh, many Jews will disagree with you. Underneath that thin veil, you're just another anti-Semite. Enjoy it.

Anti-Zionism has become the most dangerous and effective form of anti- Semitism in our time

jcpa.org/phas/phas-wistrich-f04.htm

Torq

12 Jul 2009 / #444

I'm not in any way anti-semitic, but I am anti-Zionist

So, do you oppose the existence of the state of Israel or just some of its policies?

Anti-Zionist is a very spacious word and it can contain a whole load of things...

The Palestinians have been forced into a ghetto worthy of
the Warsaw one

I would only like to remind you that in 1947 the proposed partition of what is
today known as Israel, gave Jews a much smaller country than it is today.
Jews accepted it gratefully, being thankful for finally having their own state
whilst Arabs rejected the agreement and attacked Jewish settlements with
the aim of wiping them off the face of the Earth. They started the war,
lost it and had to face the consequences.

Besides, Palestinian Arabs were already given their country in Palestine - a country
much bigger than Israel. Great Britain under its mandate divided the Palestine into
two parts, assigning 75% of its lands to create a country called Transjordan and
later Jordan (notice how the name of the country was changed to break all the
ties with Palestine).

it's time the Israelis recognised the folly of racism.

That single sentence sheds a lot of light on your anti-Zionism.

1jola 14 | 1875

12 Jul 2009 / #445

I've read some of this stuff (but not all thankfully) ........the level of this debate is low.

After you said that, one expects to find something in your post that raises the level. One is searching, searching...but since you just skimmed the thread, one is not surprised.

Seanus 15 | 19668

12 Jul 2009 / #446

1Jola, she made one of the best and most pertinent points of all. Namely, that she is anti-Zionist and not anti-Semitic. Underplay the importance of that and it's a litote. There is feck all hyperbole in what she said, she was short and sweet.

Can't you draw the demarcation or...?

researchas - | 23

12 Jul 2009 / #447

Hey torq thanks for the reply. Wow nice maps, thats good. Well done, keep it up.You are intelligent , hey nothing against you ok. There are some good people also in poland so no issues. Dont you feel bad and also other good polish people here. See whats happening.

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/8143735.stm
I hope you know this , dont waste time here. You should all go and protect your polish people there.

Pan Kazimierz 1 | 195

12 Jul 2009 / #448

I met poles everywhere us,uk, germany, sweden, austria, iceland, singapore, poland everywhere and I had bad experience with the poles. There are other east europeans also but I must say that Poles are the worst people I ever met in my life.I think this has something to do with their culture and education. They are taught to hate non whites and jews. Polish should respect jews, they have given a lot to the mankind.
A community of 14 million that has won 180 nobel prizes. Great. I salute this jewish community. May God bless the jews . What have the poles achieved apart from Madam Curie?Poles should be shameful. They are always spreading the hate message against jews and hating them.

Hmm. Well, I guess - if only all ignorant, bigoted, hypocritical racist twits were as easy to cure as that. Good for you, I suppose?

1jola 14 | 1875

12 Jul 2009 / #449

There is a chance that he was Posting Under the Influence. Remains to be seen which post though.

yehudi 1 | 433

13 Jul 2009 / #450

it's time the Israelis recognised the folly of racism.

1. Racism has nothing to do with this conflict. We Jews and Arabs are of the same race. Most israelis have middle-eastern backgrounds and a racially indistinguishable from arabs. There are Arabs whiter than a Pole and Jews darker than Obama.

2. Since when is the idea of a nation state based on racial hatred? Poland is about 95% ethnic Poles and Israel is about 80% jewish. So does that mean Poland needs recognize "the folly of racism" too?

Every nation is allowed to have their own country, but when Jews do it's called "racism". How do you figure that?