Polish flag over the Reichstag first?

Yea maybe today that would have been considered alot but not in WWII in a sea of hundreds of divisions.

Here is your quote: I'm repeating myself to the point of puking on my own shoes, untill 1943 when Germany was effectively beaten at Kursk it was fighting on one front.

The fact is Germany was fighting in a number of different theaters... Period...


Why don't you cite your sources?

Comparative Strengths of Combat Forces, Eastern Front, 1941-1945:
22 June 1941
------------
Germans: 3,050,000 (Eastern Front) 67,000 (Northern Norway) 500,000 Finns & 150,000 Rumanians.

Table C, page 302
When Titans Clashed - David Glantz & Jonathan House

3,767,000-3,407,000=360,000

Thanks. This is what I was saying since I joined this thread but he just wouldn't listen.


yep, black on white seems just not to be enough.

After the Germans abandoned Operation Sea Lion, Britain was mostly just kept isolated, a few divisions tied down in North Africa was nothing to a few hundred in Russia, only after America joined the war in the European theater and with the Brits landed in Sicily and Hitler had to halt operations during the Battle of Kursk to send troops to Italy like the 1st SS Panzer Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler from Kursk, 1st Parachute Division and 29th Panzergrenadier Divisions from Germany and France or later the Fourteenth Army after the Anzio Landings can one say it was a war in multiple theaters.

And what year was that?

1943

Wrong... The Soviets reached the figure of six million (at the front) as early as 1 Nov 1942.

From 1 Dec 1941 through 8 May 1945 the Comparative Strength of Combat Forces on the Eastern Front is in favor of the Soviets.

The Germans were very often facing forces superior in numbers on the Russian front , but easily overcame them due to better tactics , better training , better equipment and better leadership...

Things started to go wrong when the advance bogged down in the autumn due to the Russian dirt roads turning into a sea of mud which stopped all wheeled and horse drawn transport...

It got a bit better when the winter came , and the mud froze , but then it got really really cold , the worst winter in a century , and the German troops were without winter clothing , the tanks and trucks were not designed to operate in minus 50 degrees , even the machine guns jammed or broke due to the cold , so the advance stopped again...

About this time the Germans ran into the T34 tank , their tank and anti tank guns were not able to stop it , and it caused a rapid developement of new German tanks , namely the Tiger and Panther.....

The cutting off of an entire german army at Stalingrad , and its later capture was the first major defeat for the Germans , and the retreat from this region turned into a general retreat for all German forces...Now and then the Germans would counter attack and inflict heavy losses on the Russians , but by now the Russians could not be stopped , their tactics had been improved , their equipment in many cases was equal , and the Russian leaders did not care how many Russian lives it took to take a position...

At Kursk , the greatest tank battle ever took place , as the Germans attempted to smash the Russian forces to a standstill , it is seen as a Russian victory , even though the Russian lost far more tanks and troops...The Russians were able to replace the losses , the Germans were not...

The retreat continued...and ended in Berlin...

Well done W

That was some battle...

youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Eok7iyMl8RE

Quote from Otto Carius , a Waffen SS Tiger tank ace...In a Tiger tank we were easily able to take on seven T34 tanks and kill them..the problem was , there was usually ten of them...!

Is this the same ace who knocked out something like 30 T-34s during the withdraw from Leningrad?

Not to mix with Michael Wittmann who was in the Waffen SS

panzerace.net

I bet, the ace you're talking about, wasn't involved in the same battles as "The four men tank crew and a dog" ;-) (just kidding)

No Four tank men and a dog only showed Poles and Russians winning and Polish men falling in love with Russian girls, although i don't blame them :-) but still communist propaganda.

Big time. Historically seeing, a worthless movie.

Historically yes, but i wasn't made to be accurate but to bring Polish and Russian people together.

We see the transition from German forces being more concentrated to diluted. Germany begins to lose. This supports the theory that multiple theatres on Germany's behalf made the Reich weaker thus changing the outcome.

do you believe, it did?

They were fighting the reich and knew what would happen if they lost. They were desperate to not end up a nation of POWs.

Hitler knew this war on the eastern front would be a fight to the death , Stalin knew it too , it was a war of great savagery which neither side could afford to lose...The greater part of the German army was thrown into this fight , including the very best of the German divisions... The Red army was responsible for the destruction of 80% of the German war machine , and it was for this reason the allies tried to help the Russians by sending convoys of arms to them...Everyone knew that if the Russians lost the war all the best divisions , including the Waffen SS would have been available in Normandy to defend the D day landings , and this would have made the landings very very costly in terms of lives lost , we may even have been thrown back into the sea...

It was a terrible situation and that's an understatement :(
If we knew then what we know now, perhaps negotiations could have meant avoiding the cold war...

Some Americans , including the great General Patton wanted to reform the German army right after the surrender , and with them go at it with the Russians...He could see the Russians were going to be a problem in the future , and wanted to give the Russians a pasting while they were still weak after fighting the war against Germany...

Nobody else was keen to take on the Red army..everyone was tired of war....

yeah, the biggest mistake they never realized that.

That would have been extremely hard considering what the Red Army was...who knows how long it would have stayed "weakened", anyway. People thought it was weak when Germany invaded Moscow...then look what happened. The outcome would have been poor no matter what the west did.

The only possible thing we could have done to end it quickly and push the Russians back was drop a nuke, but there was so much destruction in Eastern Europe already...people didn't want any more bombings.

Patton was nuts, he wanted to stop fighting the Germans and have them help him take Moscow!

He just thought the red army was a bigger threat than the Nazis and he was right about that. The Red Army was the bigger and badder of the two. What right does he have to march on Moscow, though? The only thing we could have done to better the situation was push the red army back into USSR but that would have meant a lot more fighting and death.

Then the west would be the ones sitting in Eastern Europe. Once we left, who knows, the Red Army could come right back in.

Even after the war with the Germans , the Red army was quite a force to be reckoned with , and any fight with them would not have been an easy one...

Nobody wanted to fight with them if it was avoidable...

They always had the expendable numbers.

OOOPS..! i just realised i called Mr Carius a Waffen SS tiger tank ace..He was an ace , but did not serve with the Waffen SS...