Polish flag over the Reichstag first?

another pro Soviet here?


yes the Germans were very well trained


tell me where the Germans gathered so much experience before the WW2

What do you mean "pro soviet". It's not a matter of being pro or against. It's a matter of historical fact. We have one army pushing back another. German army did well in spots but ultimately it was the USSR's army who advanced the furthest west.

world war 1, Spanish civil war... Invasion of Czechoslovakia + intelligence?


I am the most anti-Soviet person among "normal people"


When somebody got millions of soldiers charging hundred thousand enemy Germans that always shoot while Germans got mousers jamming from snow, sand or dirt... statistics or not they were advancing later on! There was no miracle just raw power. Although i would been drawn the war out more if I were the Soviets... Having not wasted much of their men, they would build up their industry faster. Or have more target blinks in the future... Think of what would happen if Soviet Soldiers actually went into Vietnam or Korea? Or China!

So far, I was pretty much the only one in this thread who was presenting links to show that what I'm saying here is based on historical facts.


at least you admit that the Germans are intelligent :-) The Spanish civil war and the invasion of Czechoslovakia alone wouldn't make them so successful.


maybe not counting me and some other people I know.

Germans fought so many wars for so long. Ask Nietzsche. They were very militaristic and full of themselves. Thats why philosophers like Nietzsche wanted to be good Europeans above Prussians. They criticized Prussian arrogance by establishing themselves as not having a nationality.

Even if you despise Nietzsche, you can learn a lot about Prussian arrogance before wwi and ii from reading books like All Too Human.

Thank you. You are an great informant I am merely an historian enthusiast and I read most from books. From which what page and all has all slipped my mind :/

(and I don't want to go to my room searching through all my books -.-)
yes I am lazy so sorry

It was their organizational skills and discipline in the Wehrmacht that's put them on top of other armies, Soviets even after they gained experience didn't have much discipline they knew they didn't have anyone to help them if a German bullet didn't kill them a blocking unit would, plus when they poured into Poland and Germany rape and plunder became vastly more important than fighting.

and after the WW1 they weren't even allowed to have a regular army. I guess that was the time when they gathered the most of their military experience.


well, you're welcome. I'm not an informant though (lol)

It was because Prussia was causing so many problems in central Europe :/

People were sick of it.

It's because of our history....

After being the amboss and the marching ground of bigger neighbors for so long Germans had enough of it and after the disaster of the 30 years war Prussia started to build it's empire out of the brandenburgian sand without having much resources.

Better being the hammer than the amboss! The primal lesson of the near-downfall of the german people.

And we had all the reason to be full of ourselves! ;)

amazon.com/genius-war-German-general-1807-1945/dp/0133511146


amazon.com/German-Genius-Renaissance-Scientific-Revolution/dp/0060760222

Some people viewed this as militaristic aggression. What it comes down to is numbers. Who is pro Prussian and who isn't. If the overall majority are pro Prussian, Germany gets to do what it wants. If not, it doesn't. It really is that simple.

Of course....because it was.
But I think there was a point where Germans stopped caring. Where was all these "agression" screamers as Germans got raped by their neighbours for centuries just because they had NOT been big, NOT been powerfull, NOT been agressive!

I don't remember any, do you?

What do you think helped the german unification at most? It had been the napoleonic occupation...Germans fighting for their freedom.

In Europe you either were a predator or you were food! Ask the Poles...

intelligence services! Duhhh.....

are you a newb or you just mocking me? Should I consider not speak to you?


did I say it was all alone? It was all combined!!!


some are fanatical about pro-soviets or somebody who even resemble any. I am glad that the Union is gone and I can take any stand I want. Playing the devils advocate is sometimes funny :)

But no I am not even remotely Nazi or Communist/Stalinist


Yes you are, bring more links or you-know-who will get beaten up again


and then they got raped while being powerful , aggressive and big. So now their peaceful big economical and smiling towards her neighbors ;D

Germany had always been a strong people, even during the Roman empire when the barbaric germanic tribes refused to be invaded like most of Europe. They just sucked at diplomacy. They tried to get their way by using force and connivance when they should have used tact and diplomacy instead. Germany tends to be impatient.

What should Germany had done prior to wwii? Seeing that it wasn't going to get it's way with the treaty, they should have sweet talked and tried diplomatic solutions. That would have won them more friends and proponents. Instead, they made a lot of enemies. This is the real reason they lost.

They thought the world would be awed by the power of the wehrmacht and that would be enough. History has proven it wasn't. You need more than just weapons and strategy to win a war.

Yeah...Arminius! What a helmet!

But we split up later after germanic law into more than 500 little statelets...each quite helpless against the big neighbouring empires.

With our low point being the 30 years war it needed a rebirth (or we would had gone down the drain for good)...first with Prussia then with Germany under prussian rule.

It's better to be united ;)

For Germans yes...

But I know that some of our friendly neighbours wish the many little statelets back! ;)

Why would I? I just love to discuss with Poles, especially about history.


was it also combined with their outstanding military tactics?


I see it more as an occupation but then again I don't know, I haven't experienced it myself. I can only repeat what many older Poles told me, how they seen this union with the Soviets.


Do you know what it means to be an informant, Mr. Tannenberg?
I don't need to provide any more links as none of you guys has provided any links to go against mine. All I'm getting from you is your opinion, that's it.

If I have to choose what to believe, a written word by some people who spend a lot of time to investigate our present subject or to believe your words, the answer is clear.

Why do we need links to back up what most people recognize as historical fact. Do I need a link to convince you guys the iron curtain fell? Is that a figment of my imagination. What about the Soviet Bloc. Did I make that up as well?

If it was so obvious, we wouldn't have our disagreement here, would we?

No need to be funny


yes I do know


Oh.. So your sharing your sandbox we don't have any sandboxes to share? No more sandboxes for anyone?! Ohhh.....

I'm not trying to be. Those two words stand basically for the same.


obviously not.


Typical reaction (I observed it many times while in Poland), you ran out of options to continue a normal discussion and now you try to ridicule me. Oh well, who cares.

Wtf are you talking about? We LOST WWII.

Brilliant tactics are resulting in success not in bloody mess and disaster.


Same mistake to underestimate the "Russian bear" like many "great leaders" made also A.H.. Tja, Austrians...

Secondly, the war at two fronts only shows how stupid he was not to listen to educated and trained generals in his stab.

For the further future of Europe it's good that we lost. Imagine now running around in brown shorts and those belts with those idiotic haircuts and the girls....different story, sad story ;-)

Well, the military tactic of German Army was pretty good indeed.What lagged behind was a STRATEGY.Strategy and tactic are two different things.

Especially when they lost to France, England, Poland, Russia, Sweden...

The problem with these boards is morons like you making attempts at history and retarded statements are born as a result.


By whom?! Last i checked Germany attempted to invade pretty much every neighbour at some point in history!

Heh:)
Especially as we only exist since 1871...

We were really at the bottom of the joke several times...at one time nearly getting wiped out.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years%27_War#Casualties_and_disease

Oh come on, german states and statelets if you want.

We're talking about a cultural, ethnical and civilisational entity not a political one.


C'mon when? Of course you had your downtimes, all nations have them.

Well...that acounts for sh'it if you don't have an army. YOU should know that!

We got nearly wiped out as a people, as a civilization during the 30 years (we needed more than 100 years to get back onto our feet again) war but then tables turned, Prussia started out to become one of the most impressive and successfull states and armies Europe has ever seen.

Well...and then WE did our invading and attacking...to bad!

And without the napoleonic occupation I doubt there would ever had been the unification of 1871.
Doesn't look like an agressive history to me if you ask me. As our biggest feats had always been reactions to the agressions of our dearest neighbours.

Okay...yes...there was Hitler. He was the odd one out...But he to was a reaction to the treaty of versailles more or less.

But they did, some of them quite decent armies too!


You just lost 30% of your populace, that happened twice to Poland and you dont see me claiming we got wiped out, you still had 7 out of 10 people.


Not really, it had loads of ups and downs, it got absolutely owned by Napoleon, it bankrupted itself more than once, it failed to establish solid colonies etc.

It did quite well but it does not deserve the title of one of the most succesfull states, Germany does, Prussia not so much.


Yeah there would, the balls were rolling already, Napo made them roll faster thats it.


Like Poland?:)


No polish flag on Reichstag, what else can you discuss?