Esperanto - an effort by a Pole ...

Looks more like an identity problem...

Those who think that a person who has lived in a country for 18 years and meets all criteria for getting citizenship is in not worth writing a newspaper article about 1 : People who think that non-white Poles are an disgrace 0

Which camp are you in mafketis? Given that you considered the link worth sharing rather than just being the ultimate non-news news item, I'd say that you're picking up racist attitudes rather well. Or have you always been a racist?

Sorry Nomadatnet, you've lost me.

You don't get it, don't you?
It's not about how many languages you learned to speak...it's about the living, vibrant cultures behind them!

What would you call your heritage? German? American? Could you see yourself saying: My heritage is Esperanto! ?
There is nothing to show off with that...just some dusty, totally artificial experiment...

You talking about G. Soros? You pitying him the 15th richest person of the world?

Maybe, he was unable to communicate with other people in that Esperanto language, but, that language kept his mind open, as it was a mind language that was feeded by the blood coming from the heart. You are not sure if German, English, etc etc were artificial too or not. For example, there was a word, Airplane or Television, some centuries ago? What about the gold? An imported word from Greek/Hellens. Did it exist before they learnt the gold?

But if you are brought up in a place where there is no access to a language culture other than the speakers you encounter, how does the culture influence anything? I mean, European scholars used to study ancient dead languages and many could converse in them... but there was no living culture.

If I lived with an aged grandparent who was one of the last speakers of a language and she taught me from birth, would I be a native speaker if i could speak with a few old people?


Esperanto has around 2 million speakers. That is more than some 'natural' languages.

It has a history, a literary, musical and (for all I know) artistic culture.

I don't pity him...I just don't like him!


They still do because at one time they haven't been dead but living (and the Lingua Franca in vast parts of the world)...something Esperanto never was to begin with!


And yet these natural languages are natural for a reason and have a culture behind them.

You will never make Esperanto to a real language...they are trying that for decades...it never caught not and never will, for good reasons.

Both, all three. Why not. I can see how this would be confusing to someone that grew up in a monoculture household... but, culture transcends just Hesse, German, European... Why can't you grow up taking in multiple cultures? All interactions with people contribute to what you eventually are as a person. Does that make me a cultural orphan, or someone that can enjoy and take part in multiple cultures? When I go hang out with Crow, I can enjoy Serbian culture. We can sit around and sing songs about Serbian triumphs, I can get into it, really. Same goes for when I'm in Jordan, Mongolia, Germany, The US, Brazil, Poland, wherever. Again, surely, that's not a bad thing.

That's a good point. If I am experiencing another culture (Polish, Macedonian, Egyptian, Finnish, Saami etc) in English, is it any different to experiencing it in Esperanto?

There is an Esperanto culture?

You keep up mixing things...you compare a language which is build upon, build with, reason for a whole culture with the empty shell Esperanto.

No, you wouldn't call your heritage Esperanto...as there isn't any beside an artificial language.

You can call your heritage German or American or Polish or whatever and also your knowledge of Esperanto but that isn't the same!

Jealous of him being successful? I don't think you mind his making Britain central bank 1 billion pound lose. Maybe, just becaue he speaks Esperanto you call artificial.?

Ps: Esperanto was not a language from outer space. It was just a mixture of some languages (Slav, Yiddish, German, etc.) If mixture of them is artificial, then, all these languages too are artificial. Eh, we already know the history of Yiddish is not so old. Why do you not call Yiddish artificial? Cause it imported German words only mostly to Hebrew?

but a childs culture is based on the input from those around them. if a child is surrounded by esperanto speakers, there is no reason that the child wouldn't pick up traditions from hungarian, jewish, polish, russian, whatever culture. the language is just a means of passing things. you can see that right here with Polish Americans that don't speak Polish, yet celebrate Polish traditions.

So why do natural languages die out? is the revival of a dead language (Old Prussian etc) any different if the culture behind it is dead?


But the cultures behind them are often dead, so why learn it? Esperanto is bigger than many natural languages and is still being used as a lingua france, albeit on a much smaller level. Obviously, the power of English makes it less and less of use... a bit like French and German, i suppose.

Arguably, WW2 destroyed the main hotbeds of Esperanto (European Jewish intellectuals and Germans) but does that mean that you are lonely with 2 million other people speaking the language? Soros learned it when it was still a thriving part of European intellectual society, before WW2.

Robbers, cheats and thieves are successfull too (as long as they don't get caught)...doesn't make me jealeous of them.

But growing up without any roots whatsoever might have a hand in his development..who knows.
His parents hadn't any scruples to experiment with him...

Part of my heritage is Scots and Irish, but i don't speak Scots, Irish or Gaelic, nor was I brought up with a huge education in any of those cultures. At least, no more than I could get from a bookshop or a record shop.


I thought it was more Romance based.


He obviously grew up with Jewish-Hungarian roots and awareness of/ exposure to that culture.

It's worth considering that many intellectual families often disassociate themselves from ethnic cultures and simply embrace intellectual culture anyway.

Because of our history they communicate? Just an idea...they (contrary to Esperanto) belong to our rich european history...

And no..most of these cultures live on in one way or another...


Erm...that must be on another planet...I never heard or read of that...


He should have better learned hungarian...he was living there after all.

Listen, they teached us pupils in the GDR schools about the "noble idea of unifying Esperanto" and like the "noble idea of unifying communism" where all people understand and like each other it won't work...

No wonder the most ardent proponents were Jews and Lefties...But even today Israeli Jews are very much concerned with Hebrew...ask them if they would give one of the oldest cultures of the world up for artificial Esperanto.

Nah and the idea of Communism should be dead for good now...so is Esperanto (besides for some nerds)

he learned Hungarian too...

It seems his family didn't see themselves as natives there...

Reminds me about the problems with the (some) german Turks...spells only problems!

Guess, you don't like other rich Jews either. You probably consider those bigger Jewish families like Rockefellers, etc are robbers, cheats, thieves, etc.. George S. is considered by them as a spoiled child as he is giving himself, his money and his efforts to ordinary folks more. You need to learn to appreciate things done sometimes without looking at their titles. At least, they are working unlike some like princes like G. W. Bush without doing anything real.

Even generating an Esperanto language is a big work for those who can understand.

...yeah...and you think Hitler was a slav and the world wars were about oil so who cares!

No, BUT, you bring up a good point in the immigrant country of Germany. Do German Turks understand German culture? German Italians? German Greeks? German Russians? Arguably, they all learned languages other than German first...some of those people run very large companies in Germany, some of them are politicians, most of them feel more German than anything else, even though their native, first, language might not have been German. I learn Greek at 3 and German at 5...now I'm 25, I've lived in Germany all my life, what am I?

You needed to say this some decades ago when you needed labor power.


I had said Hitler was a slave (of Church). (See, a mixture of words, Slav and Slave, if not Esperanto, Nomadanto.)

I've thought you were an Ami?

What football team do you cheer for? ;)


"I" didn't invite them nor did "I" know what problems they would bring with them.

But now we are trying to do better....Merkel is inviting especially european work force for the coming labor shortage due the german economy boom. Just to avoid to get to many of new problems inside...

halb...


the underdog.

now what am I?

An Ami!

A true German would always cheer the Mannschaft! :)
(And for sure not the Underdog...say...England...if we play each other...no no!)

no see, i know that would be wrong... you know, through my upbringing and whatnot. So, we've established that the language doesn't matter all that much...

Ah, it's all coming out now! I bet you don't like clowns either because one scared you when you were 5.


urgh! What a weird idea... as a brit ex-pat the idea of learning the language of the country where I'm living is just appalling!

We have established that we can't communicate, that is.


Hey! How did you know? ;)
Most kids actually don't like clowns I've read!


Heh:)
But you would propose the idea of learning Esperanto???

between the ages of 3 and 4, yea...

I think german culture to a Turk consists of "No, you can't call you child Ali, it isn't on the german name list!" and "Stand still, put your hands on your head and spread your heels!"