Endecja - State Sponsored Anti Semitism 1935 - 1939.

not true !


why because I do not agree with your biased views!

sure, on a Ukrainian forum, because this is POLISH a forum and the that is why Polish- Jewish relationships are discussed.

When was the last time you didn't jump on your hind legs when sb said sth unfavourable about Poland, the Poles or Polish history?

Now, let me drink my beer, FCS!

>^..^<

M-G (Karpacki this time)

I heard about this movie but never have opportunity to see it. But nevertheless its not the reason I said that you should talk with some elders. Its a genuine advice just because none of us really knows how it was. We have only the informations from media, books etc. and sometimes some snips of memoirs from our families, often misshapen by understatements and our own interpratations... So if you are looking for truth, you won't find it here.

M-G I have a feeling by above statement that you look on those times in the light of contemporary values. Mind that world had changed and values had changed and way of thinking had changed and modern values doesn't suit at all the attitude of pre-war ppl.

There certainly were polonised Jews who were polish patriots. There were russian/german Jews who came at the begining of century just to make business. There were also orthodox Jews who might despise christian and non-jews just because of religious reasons. In monography of my dad's home town is a chapter about Jewish population and neighbour's memoirs of Jews. In this town there was no tensions among Poles and Jews, seems they live together rather peaceful with many friendships among the youngsters. It was a kind of resort where lots of ppl came during holidays and rent houses. And one of memoirs says of Jewish rabbi who didn't allow his children to play with "gois"...

And I heard it many times from other sources that those really religious Jews were scornful to "gois" as only Jews were "the Chosen Nation".

It's actually a very good advice you give there, sweetie, and would heed it if they would speak either German, English, Dutch or French, so that I can have a conversation with them. I specifically mentioned Lanzmann's Shoah because it's this very documentary which caused for a great deal the way the West looked (and still looks) upon the Poles with regards to their relationship with the Jews. You're a bit young and Shoah is quite disturbing, so I would recommend you view the DVD series (4 DVD's, but only the first three are relevant imo) from the Simon Wiesenthal collection. It will give you an overview of what happened, albeit slightly biased, but nevertheless it's a good preparation for Shoah.

I'm not saying this to tease you or make fun or sth, but Shoah really can alter your view on things. I don't know if you can understand German, but if you do, I will post an interview Lanzmann had with an SS-guard from Treblinka, especially the part of the pile of corpses that lay behind the gas chambers in the midst of summer that was so excruciating fouling that even the Jewish forced labourers refused to clean it up, saying they'd rather be shot dead than to clean that up. In the end the Nazis had to clean the mess up themselves. It's just an example.


Maybe I do, but maybe it's also a sign of coming of age for Poland (or at least some of its inhabitants) to admit that there were epoches in its history that weren't too bright. And that is what this thread is all about. Like I said before, ask any Dutch, Belgian, Frenchman, Norwegian or British if there was a fascist, anti semite movement in their country before WW2 and they all will admit to that, except the oddball as you have them everywhere. The majority however will readily admit.

>^..^<

M-G (beer time)

dodger!!!!:)


Many times I don't react when something is truthful or without bias, many times I criticize some things about Poland myself!
Ask anyone !
It doesn't mean that I jump and say - yessss! you are right there very often..

are you suffering from lack of attention?, you know I am right, it would be off topic.

you could propose new thread but no .....dodger :P
you know I'm right :)

You are perfectly right zetigrek, orthodox Jews stay away from non Jews and secular Jews as much as possible. It is written in Torah that they should stay apart, they can do business but not socialize. Thats why 60% of the Jews is now secular. Judism was always a religion even before they left the Holy Land. So if Polish Jews were not Polish nationals what nationality were they?

Let me put it this way: Is Catholic a nationality? Hindu? Muslim? Mormon? If they are not why is Jewish a nationality?

I have posted a link which you might find of interest.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_20th-century_Poland

Jewish is not a nationality IMHO. They lack the required qualities to be that.

Take a group of primitive imbeciles from any nation, provoke them to discuss subject they only remotely understand and then you already got Lanzmanns movie.

I have to agree .
Probably every single element of Shoah movie was true.
Combined together and presented to some ignorant public it creates really anti-Polsh picture of Holocaust.

It does get mentioned, but you are stretching the truth with this one, and you know it, so i would certainly not consult you as you are not objective. Proportionally Polish Jews filled the majority of liberal professions in Poland.

M-G, your biggest let down is your seemingly complete lack of impartiality. You almost always take the Jewish position, regardless of merit. You need to conduct a meritorious assessment and then reach a position thereof. Fine, take the Jewish side if it's indeed the right one but every time I read sth you write, it's in defence of the Jews. Your commentary is far from balanced.

What is more currently the South African gov is using laws to restrict the white minority from universities in SA, where is the condemnation? why aren't world politicians calling it racist?

It is discrimination but it is also payback. Two wrongs don't make a right but blacks, being the majority, were denied so much during the long reign of apartheid. I can understand the logic. Life isn't fair, Hague.

It doesn't fit the line...


Hell yea, discrimination against a group of people because of the color of their skin. Poor white people, f*ck 'em. Hilarious.

I'm sure that the white people are asking themselves what the hell they managed to get themselves into.

Their oppressive policies were bound to lead to a backlash. Now that the boot is on the other foot, they have to get on with it. What did they expect, a bugle and a huge serenade, followed by premium tea and biscuits as a welcome? I read a lot on apartheid through being exposed to it during Modern Studies at secondary school. What they did was deplorable!

No, it is not. And the trouble is that they won't remove them any time soon, because the de facto one party South African state will continue to mismanage South Africa and the black majority will continue being poor, whilst the minority that is capable of putting the state back on to its two feet is discriminated against.

That broadly fits the African model. Look at Zimbabwe. Without Googling, I think unemployment there stands at around 90-95%. It's not that they are completely devoid of resources, it's more that Mugabe has absconded with the cream.

Indeed, and i don't buy into this 'colonialism bad' crap. The Truth is that it had more positives than negatives, and facts alone prove that to be the case. both blacks and whites had a higher standard of living when Zim use to be Rhodesia and that goes for many other African states.

The key question was the moral one, 'to intervene or not?'. We all know that Africans would barely have moved forward if not for some pushing and know-how being given to them. However, this is just how they are and they have to work with that. They are accustomed to primogeniture and subsistence so they can provide for their own. They need to learn the trick of government overthrow.

What are you talking about? Too many Jew-bashers on here and sb has to give some counterweight. Plus, you're not impartial yourself when discussing the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, so pls, don't go that popular road. I have written down the things I read about this period in time that I didn't know about before for all to discuss, what's impartial about that?


No, I am writing down what I read about a period that I didn't know of before. It's up to you guys to discuss and/or to rebuke it.


Yeah, remember Apartheid? That nifty little system that kept the vast black majority down to a near-slave degree in their own country? Well, that lasted about 30-40 years. It has been abandoned for about 20 years, so in 10 to 20 years the laws will be revoked as payback has been reached. And it's a bytch.


And you are calling ME biased? That actually makes me laugh on this Saturday morning.

>^..^<

M-G (hell yeah)

It's about setting the record straight as you see it. However, almost without fail, you support the Jewish position which tells me you think it is never wrong.

How am I not impartial on the ME question?

How can you plausibly call my comments biased, please explain?

Maybe you consider SA is a well governed country at the moment?

Maybe you are denying the fact that the ANC has a monopoly on power in SA at the moment.

Or perhaps you would like to join Malema (head of the ANC youth wing) and sing along to
"bring me my machine gun" and "Kill the Boer" ?

Lets face if it had not been for colonialism Africa would still be in the dark age, hang on it actually still is.

"Fill full the mouth of Famine
And bid the sickness cease;
And when your goal is nearest
The end for others sought,
Watch sloth and heathen Folly
Bring all your hopes to nought.

reap his old reward:
The blame of those ye better,
The hate of those ye guard--
The cry of hosts ye humour
(Ah, slowly!) toward the light:--
"Why brought he us from bondage,
Our loved Egyptian night?"

it is simply too fukcin prophetic!

I actually don't, but according to some it's all the fault of the Jews themselves, so I just try to point out that both parties were wrong. This topic goes about a yet hardly known episode of Polish history and it needs to be discussed. I don't defend Jews, I just give credit where credit is due. Problem with discussions like this is that you never get a full oversight of all the facts and balance them against each other. I don't go for the statement that the Jews are always right, because they aren't and I don't go for the statement that the Poles are always right, because they aren't. I have yet to see a source which is not biased towards one side and this fact could make me mad, but as Aphro said, PL is yet in the process of coming of age as to where it is learning about and learning to accept its history, so I just guess it'll be a matter of time before we all get the full picture. But for now, as long as there are ppl who deny obvious ocurrences I tend to and I will be tending towards providing a counter weight for such statements.

I have looked into the myth that Jews were commies and it's found that some Jews were commie, yes, but also some Poles were commie too. The vast majority however was not. And the reason for this myth is complex, but its roots lie probably in the Catholic Church.

My explanation would be that the CC knew there were Poles and Jews commie, however, they could not get themselves to blame the Poles for this as they were Catholics, so they turned to the Jews, an easy target as they were different and not part of the Catholic group. Combine this with the age-old blood libel nonsense and you have set a perfect prerequisite in a very religious country for a party like ND to come and light the tinderbox. Pilsudski liked the Jews and treated them normal and had dictatorial powers between 1926 and 1935, so this kept it from surfacing. But upon his death there was nothing to withold it. Of course there were no camps or whatsoever, but it was there, there is no denying that it was.


Unlike myself, you have never condemned both parties in this conflict, or at least, I haven't read it yet. Maybe I overlooked sth.

>^..^<

M-G (Saturday morning in misty Dublin North)

No camps? Then what was £ambinowice?

Oh, I have criticised Hamas on many occasions. George Galloway did too and he even got a passport from them. Their rocket firing was criminal though I understand it. The intifada time was a brutal one too. They can't just sit back and take it.

But that's what I have been saying all along in this particular conflict (and you can read it back if you like): both parties are wrong. In fact, I say this in most conflicts. And with a few exceptions like the Nazi extermination of the Jews and the Slavic ppl, the Ruandan massacre, both parties are usually wrong in any conflict. I try to be as impartial as I can be and you should know that, that's why I don't understand this critisism.

Edit: there were camps? That's new to me. Tell me about it :)

>^..^<

M-G (raining again in Dublin)

It wasn't a criticism, M-G, just an observation that you don't quite strike the balance right. Then again, you do a damn sight better than most politicians who are serving agendas. I've just finished watching my favourite documentary on Yugoslavia again. Oh boy, the stuff-ups are unforgivable.

M-G, you can understand the opposition to the Jews of the 1930's, can't you? For me, it appeared like they were overly intrusive and expectant on the whole. This is just what I have read and heard but, again, I could be wrong. It doesn't make sense to orchestrate sweeping policies against them, though.

That's funny. If you check American forums you don't read too much about Indian genocide or slavery, same goes to British forums (slavery, Asian Indian genocide) or even if you want to check forums for foreigners in Germany, you don't see a lot of topics about 'CERTAIN' subjects.

But here we are. Polish Forums. And we can read all those subjects of discrimination or racism
(written mostly by Polish Jews who - rough guess- lives in America) even if it's almost non-existent compared to some other 'bright' nations of Europe and New World.

Of course it's got lot to do with out tolerance and our commitment for freedom of speech (try to post on Jewish forums messages on a weekly basis about extermination of Palestinian people by Jews and you'll see how fast admin can act ;-])

How do I know that? Cause I know a few Jewish people, whose ancestors used to live in Poland and their attitude towards Poles and Poland.

Of course now my post will be covered with 'white noise' ;-]

You do! Time to face it!


In Poland many Jews were commie,


what occurrences ?


That the purest no-sense I ever heard ! M-G no wonder we cannot discuss you just don't have a clue!:D
You know few facts and few lies you take as face value and you stick to them because you don't really know much.
Your confabulation about CC - priceless and unreal :)


Well, I doubt it!


There was conflict that for sure !