Endecja - State Sponsored Anti Semitism 1935 - 1939.

You haven't provided any reason for state actions against its own citizens yet.

to MG: Admit the fact... Endecja never exactly ruled! Blame others then! I am hardly their supporter of ND (historically speaking) but let's get the facts straight. End of the 30'ies may not have been perfect in PL but it wasn't all totally bad for any nation in the country. Jews, Ukrainians, Belorussians and Poles faced much worse fate in years to come.

What about renaming the topic in e.g. State organized illegal actions against Jews, Leftists, Trade Union Leaders and some other groups in Poland and some other countries before WWII?

Polish actions were completely legal, what was illegal was communist/jewish practices aimed at destruction of Poland.

Trade Unions, political opposition, universities, radical movements and their propaganda tools are not the state.
So you definitely failed to prove charges of some state sponsored anti-semitism in the pre ww2 Poland.

MG why don't ask some elder polish jew how looked life in 30s in Poland?

And to think that just yesterday I noticed with great pleasure that nobody has mentioned Jews for the past few days... Shame on you, MG!

As for Endecja - they were terrible nationalists, that's true, but aren't you going too far in demonizing the situation of Jews in Poland? Is it not true that nearly half of the urban population was Jewish and a third of the doctors, lawyers and other intellectualists were Jewish? Isn't it true that there were mostly-Jewish or even all-Jewish parties in the Polish government? There's nothing wrong with that, of course (although I can see why Poles saw them as a competition) but it does show that a Jew was likely to lead a quite decent life in Poland.

Probably because they are already dead ...

If they were born in the 1930's, they are (almost) octogenerians now (if Mr. A.H. didn't get to them first, that is).

Another point is that they might not be able to remember: for example, although I was born in 1967, I cannot remember much about my life in the "glorious sixties".

there are ppl who are in their 80s and still have good memory. I think that in the internet era there wouldn't be too much difficult to find descentants of ppl who were the eye witness of life during 30s and have something to said or some other intresting materials such like memoirs, diaries etc.

MareGaea,
Did you do a research on how many intellectually challenged foreigners partake in this forum who make uninformed, exaggerated, embellished, etc. statements?

MG is a Dutch Jew slumming in Ireland obsessed with Polish antisemitism. A very common but unhealthy obsession. A little holiday is recommended.

If I were in his shoes reading PF, I'd also become obsessed...

I doubt it; I visit many fora and I don't have the inclination to rag on nationalities or out of ignorance to slam their national politics. . It takes a particular deviance to seek out bits of information to insult people or nations without reason. Tell me, what particular interest can a Dutch, non-religious Jew have in dwelling in politics of pre-war Poland? It takes quite a bit of reading to understand the issues involved and a guy such as MG has no chance to grasp the basics of it.

I have suggested reading material to MG in the past which he has ignored, and he continues his antisemitism crusade, whatever that is. Funny, that a fake Jew is so concerned about Polish 'antisemitism'.

I will check back in a few weeks when I get back from sailing. I suggest MG begs his Indian employers to give him some time off to read books not wikipedia or take a course in Polish to access info that is reliable.

In other words you ask what has brought here MG? The same thing as the rest... girls ;)
He married now to a polish woman.

I think he mentioned something previousely about polish friends who always remind him that he is of a jewish ancestry... maybe that's it.


True :)

His command of English would bring shame upon many native users of English, so I'm sure he's perfectly capable of understanding the issues involved.

Guys, you aren't fighting over MG while he is not there? :)

I will address all the points tomorrow, been a hell of a day today and I have to finish some reports, but tomorrow night I have time to adress all the points mentioned so far. Apologies for that.

>^..^<

M-G (busy)

*grin* :) Popcorn anybody?

I think you confuse opposition to Zionism with anti-semitism most of the time.

Zionism and semitism/anti-semitism are 2 different things, you need to figure that out.

Just because someone opposes Zionism does not mean they are anti-semites. Many jews oppose Zionism today. And if Polish Jews, in a majority Catholic Poland, welcomed Soviet jews, when it was widely known that soviet jews were a large part of the bolshevik revolution, responsible in large part for the destruction of the Christian Russia that the Polish people previously knew, they got what they deserved in the opinion of the day, an eye for an eye, jewish law btw.

keep it fresh till tomorrow night:) MG knows how to built a suspense;)

Okay...*packs pop corn back in bag*

*gets ticket for tomorrow* ;)

There was a move away from the excellent efforts of Piłsudski but it really wasn't so fervent until close to the 1970's. How many times must it be stated? Poland was largely neutral to the Jews for so long. There was some anti-Semitic sentiment, yes, but state sponsored? Come off it!

So what do you think Endejca was?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Democracy
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghetto_benches

A movement by Roman Dmowski, I believe. As I said, AS existed but I don't think this party got much support. His nemesis, Piłsudski, was always more for choice.

Well, Dmowski was nationalistic but nothing like Adolf. He really took the biscuit!

I don't think M-G implied that...

Neither do I :)

Disliking sb is fine if you have a rational basis for it. Exterminating them is not!

I think what he was trying to imply was that Germany was not the only country to have "Nazi" like supporters. And that actually the attitude of many Germans during that time were the exact same as the attitude for most of the Poles at the time.

Edit:


What was I thinking with that, what I meant was people of that mind-set.

BB, you are right to say that ND was popular in Poznańskie and Pomorskie voievodships, if only because ND claimed that Germany was Poland's bigger foe. The majority of population of Poland's other areas thought that Russia was it's biggest enemy at that time. Also, Poznańskie and Pomorskie had minuscule proportion of Jews at the time. The Jews mostly lived in the center, east and south/east of the country. It's hardly likely that the population of Poznanskie or Pomorskie could have been antisemitic as they hardly knew any Jews and did not compete with them. And let me add once again: ND, to my knowledge never ruled the country in the 30'ies, I think they may have been for a short time part of some coalition government in the 20'ies.

Hey hey guys....I'm a bad substitute for M-G....let him come back and discuss tomorrow :)


Okay...only that one...the whole number of Jews in Germany during it's high time was barely 1%. ONE f'UCKING PERCENT!
And most of them lived in the few big towns and cities whereas the far majority of the Germans lived still in the country side with most of them probably never meeting a Jew in their life.

Didn't stop Hitler at all...

ushmm.org/outreach/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007687

and most of europe of that time...