Is Czarnecki Really A Polish Or Actually A Sephardic Jewish Surname?

Did Sephardic Jews fleeing into Poland, Belarus, Lithuania, and Russia bring in "Czarnecki" and its variants? According to About.com Genealogy expert Kimberly Powell:


genealogy.about.com/library/surnames/c/bl_name-CZARNECKI.htm

How do you like that? We Jews might've brought "Czarnecki" into Poland.

I like it.


They did or didn`t. Actually, who cares?

Czarnecki goes well with the first name Nicole. Has a nice sequence of sounds.

Perhaps you can provide a map reference for one of the so-called 'dozens'?

The meaning of the name is obvious RO anyone who speaks Polish.

I provided the link. As I said, Sephardic Jews probably brought it in to Spain; which is important because then it would give even less excuses for any Anti Semitism in Poland and among Poles, especially since some of the "marranos" (Anusim) may have been Messianic Jewish Catholics and otherwise Messianic Jews whose conversions were not taken seriously.

Which actually says nothing. Czarnecki is not, repeat not, the name of 'dozens of places in Spain'. Nor is it a surname with Spanish connections.

And you're sure that "Czarnia" isn't a Polonized form of "Negro" or something?

What? That doesn't make sense. Czarny means black but has nothing to do with Spain. Plenty of people whose names Derive from White, Green etc. Nothing to do with Spain either, and not a 'polonised' form of anything Spanish.

Anyway, apart from one sentence on a dodgy website, what makes you think there are 'dozens of places in Spain' called Czarnecki.

If you have a problem with it, ask Kimberly Powell.

Who? Surely you aren't basing your theory from one sentence on a dodgy website written by an obscure about.com writer who thinks that 'there are dozens of places named Czarnecki in Spain' and therefore doesn't know what she's writing about?

Or more pertinently, if that's all you can actually find, why start a thread here?

Some more sources that there are 'dozens of places named Czarnecki in Spain' or admit your theory is wrong.

Lols,who?
Dont dig too hard in that direction though,more and more archives are being uncovered in Spain that point to a lot of supposed Jews and Christians having actually been Arab Muslims :)

strange that the only references on line to los instituto come in questionable name meanings websites,no actual on line presence at all for the institute......

There most certainly are not dozens of places with a Polish name in Spain. Czarnecki .....bosquecillo cerca de un rio, not really sure how that works etymologicaly?

genealogy.about.com/library/surnames/c/bl_name-CZERWINSKI.htm

Try this on for size ;-)
Seriously, check it out.

And as I asked you before, "And you're sure that "Czarnia" isn't a Polonized form of "Negro" or something?" Let's try Ancestry.com with Google Translate, which is basic but useful, for size:

"Soto Name Meaninghabitational name from any of numerous places named Soto or El Soto, from soto 'grove', 'small wood' (Latin saltus).Castilianized spelling of Asturian-Leonese Sotu, a habitational name from a town so named in Asturies.Castilianized spelling of the Galician equivalent, Souto."

(Plural is Sotos)

Soto --> zagajnik --> shrubbery

Sotos --> gaje --> groves

But hang on...

saltus --> las --> forest

Czarnecki:

Czarnecki Name MeaningPolish and Jewish (from Poland): habitational name for someone from a place called Czarnca in Kielce voivodeship, or any of the various places called Czarnocin or Czarnia, all named with Polish czarny 'black'.

"Czarnecki" thus could've come from "Sotos" in terms of there being forests with a name such is, e.g., Sotos Negros (Czarne Gaje).

What a load of rubbish

There is no way Soto can be made to mean black

How about Czerwiński then? If you believe what the site says about Czarnecki, you should believe what it says about Czerwiński (i.e., the same thing). ;-)

"Czarnecki" could've easily been (for a lack of a better term) a bastarized form of "Czarnegaje" or "Czarnegaje". So, let's look at Czerwiński:



czerwien --> red of -->rojo de

This is a case where "rojo" may have somehow sounded like "soto" and gotten mixed up, or she just confused "Czarnecki" and "Czerwiński" when she typed for About.com. Humans are imperfect.


You laugh, but I'd like to see when you're perfect. At least I researched to make my argument.

That is just mad logic

Facts: there are no Czarnecki and / or Czerwiński place names in Spain. There is no connection whatsoever between Czarnecki and Sotos. And, last but not least, as a native speaker I can assure you that there is no way the surname Czarnecki could be a corruption of Czarnegaje, especially that Polish would not really allow for a surname like Czarnegaje in the first place.

That is one of the strangest things I've read here. It's either trolling or something far more disturbed.

Czerwiński as a name suggests the ancient town of Czerwińsk nad Wisła. Not 'dozens of places named Czerwinski in Spain' !

czarneccy.strefa.pl/html/etymology.html

If you are really interested.

Also, if we follow the logic, it would only prove that the Czarneckis are Spanish, but not in any way that they are Jewish, unless Spanish = automatically Jewish ;-)

And how come it wouldn't if it allows for place and other names such as:


and


?

Various formats and corruptions can happen in any language.

Oh, but the forms and corruptions always stay true to the character of the given language, you see... And surnames are not place names and have evolved differently.

I'm simply saying that "Czarne Gaje" could've been "Sotos Negros" and could've been confused as "Rojos Negros" (Hence, Czerwinski). The corruption could've even been deliberate on the part of non-native speakers who were looking to Polonize last names such as "Sotosnegros", "Rojosnegros", and "Sotosrojos".

Yeah, I don't like that part either. They couldn't have all been that bad. They look pleasant enough in the photos Nicole posted (not that I really endorse publishing pictures of your relatives online).


Sotosnegros and Sotosrojos have exactly 0 Google hits. I just checked. Are you implying that ALL the bearers of these hypothetical surnames left for Poland, and ALL subsequently had their surnames "polonised"?

Polonisation of some foreign surnames did happen, but it was not usually a translation of the meaning, merely an accommodation to the phonetics of the target language. There is nothing difficult to pronounce about Sotosnegros or Sotosrojos for a Polish person. But we both know that these surnames do not exist anyway ;-)

Looks can be deceiving, and that's not what this thread is about.

Indeed. It's about a rather wild claim that Czarnecki, Czerwiński etc are in fact Spanish.

Maybe black is white and white is black?

I'm saying that they could've been Polonized forms, and surnames sometimes just fade out of existence or forever become part of another language.


It's very possible that all the surname bearers could've left or even been murdered in the Inquisition or even as far back as the Crusades, etc.; and had their records destroyed.

Nothing whatsoever suggests that this is the case here.

The problem is that you think that I'm suggesting that the Poles or only the Poles caused a possible bastardization of "Sotosrojos", "Sotosnegros", etc.. As I said, "I'm simply saying that "Czarne Gaje" could've been "Sotos Negros" and could've been confused as "Rojos Negros" (Hence, Czerwinski). The corruption could've even been deliberate on the part of non-native speakers who were looking to Polonize last names such as "Sotosnegros", "Rojosnegros", and "Sotosrojos"." They could've been trying to come up with different or new surnames.

No. The only problem is that this is absolute nonsense. We've established beyond any reasonable doubt that there's no suggestion that these names are polonised Spanish words.