Being ashamed of Polish ancestry?

I wish I could get at the writer. I would totally punch his lights out up for such a biased portrayal.

I am half-polish living in the U.S and I do not feel ashamed to be Polish at all. I proudly wear or sport anything Polish (love Polish soccer jerseys) and don't have a problem letting anyone know my roots. And as far as being superior, I am visiting Poland at the end of the month and will not act superior at all to any Poles, for they are some of the best people in the world!

My mothers' side of my family came from Poland and emigrated to Canada in the early 1950's. When I was growing up I wanted to learn Polish, but my aunts had said what do you want to learn Polish for? it's a dead language. It seems they were embarrassed to be of Polish descent. I tossed that back in their face and they were not happy when I reminded them of their comments from years gone by. Especially now that I have re-established contact with family members there 2 yrs ago.

And I certainly could have used it more than French.

Please, understand Polish situation in 50'. All was gone! 2WW was in fact lost by Poland, Soviets got the power, Poles quickly beame to be beggers - weak Spanian economy overtaked Polish economy that time and Portugal and even Irland were colser and closer. Poles after short and unknow domestic war 1945-1947 lost the last hope and then, in 1947-1956, Soviets (and local Communists) imposed a harsh political terror killing and imprisioning many decent people. It was not enough: In 50' the "Western World" began to use offend term "East" or "Communists" concerning Poland and other European countries occupied by Soviets and tried to forget about their existance. Poland and Polish language seemed to be lost for centuries. So, you should not to be astonished by your family attitude.

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Not only them, look: Princess Mathilde, the wife of the heir apparent to the Belgian throne (wow, wow) is daughter of Countess Anna Komorowska (a distant relative of our president). And what? She speaks French, Dutch, English and Italian. Her mother, who spent most of her life outside of Poland, did not teach her Polish, thinking that it would not be necessary. Therefore, Mathilde knows only a few words in Polish.

I understand that now Peter. But even then when I was growing up, it still would have been nice to have been informed a lot better about the family heritage and where the grandparents grew up and whatever else that other families have managed to pass on before the old folks were dead and buried. Now that they are, I don't have the stories or whatnot about the family. I know my grandfather and a brother of his fought for the Polish military, but I don't even have any information as to what units either one belonged to or if either earned any medals.

Right now, all I have is a couple of conflicting stories about my grandfathers military service and without the military unit I can not verify what the truth is. All because everybody kept their mouths shut. Now all I can do is hope that I can obtain copies of his letters to a cousin that there might be clues in there for me to do my family tree and maybe obtain his military records.

Despite what happened between the WW2 and 1991, those of Polish descent in other countries did their best to keep alive their heritage and language skills with the kids. That way the kids, when growing up could be proud to be of Polish stock and where ever they are living now. That way, they have the best of both worlds. What of those that were not told of the family history? They lose out and most that have discovered the family secret most are struggling to find their way back and not have a clue as to where the family lived before emmigrating to foreign lands and not knowing the language. Or even knowing what kind of jobs the ancestors did during their lifetime. I am lucky I had a few clues to figure out and meet relatives I never even knew about after 30 years since my grandparents died. It certainly would have been nice to know about them long time ago. Now I have to play catch up to make up for the lost time. And I certainly would have loved to have visited sooner after the fall of communism. But even then, I was the first of the family to pay a return visit after all these years.

amerecans ancestors are from europe so they have to be shamed too

I must confirm that it is a strange and mysterious story and apparently has nothing to do with a great policy. Just personal animosity or bad past? A little skeleton in the closet or what? I wonder why a group of person decides to encrypt their past? It is worth to dig a little.

gjene
The best thing you can do is travel to Poland and absorb the culture there. It's a beautiful country now and quite open. And the dollar still goes a long way. Seriously, do it.

Try, they moved to a country which made it clear that being from Poland was a horrible sin. And, if you wanted to eat and have a roof over your head, the last thing you needed was to stand up for principles like your old country's language and history when you've already gotten sick of your loved ones dying. AND you are homesick. AND you probably suffer from PTSD. May I ask, are you an immigrant? I assume not. You would know what an immigrant goes through. Especially one moving to the USA. Especially during that time.

A lot of families did their best to keep their heritage alive and well in a foreign land. That way they have a little something of 'home' for a security blanket. In the process it gave them stability while making a new life. Also, in this process, by bringing the children up with it gives the kids the best of both worlds. Other families just wanted to get away from the horrors and hardships of the past. If it meant breaking away from and forgeting about family that stayed behind, guess who loses. The following generations that grow up are wondering where their families originally came from.

That is what I did at the end of September 2010 rychlik. I had a chance to meet family I never knew about because the old folks never talked about them before they died. As I have said, I am trying to play catch up and plan to visit them again this year. Hopefully at the end of June this year. It will give me a chance to dig up some paperwork that I want in order to fill in other paperwork to see if I qualify for dual citizenship. For I would like to return and settle down there and work.

I was a "gastarbeiter" in Germany for some time and I learned a bit about miserable immigrant's live. What more, I used to avoid speaking Polish (though I never hide my nationality) because my very crappy English gave me an advantage anyway. I'm not so total ignorant then, and I can understand now much people have to change (or to cut out) to be accepted.

I believe that gjene's case is more intriguing. His family have entirely cut out its Polish live. May be they suffered too much or wanted to forget a bad past in Poland. Anyway, it is a wonderful information that gjene wants to came here and may be become a recuperated Pole!

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But when American comes to Poland he frequently screems (I heard myself): Kosszzuszsko, Puuaskee, Ualenzaa! What a wonderful nation!

Being ashamed of Polish ancestry??
It strictly depends how my "Polish ancestry" is behaving at the time. At a scientific symposium, for example - very proud. Spotting one passed out it his own pee - not so much.

Fringxx, there are a couple posts on this thread already that explain why, in an American context, if not necessarily shame but rather more irritation with one's Polish roots may be felt by Polonians in the U.S.A.



Simply put, children with Polish ancestry in the U.S.A. when they reveal the fact that they are of Polish ancestry, to someone who'se asked about their ancestry, very often find that the questioner will snicker, or even say something rude to them, because in the U.S.A. Polish people have been stereotyped and ridiculed as stupid. Children are often very sensitive about being teased, especially with regards to their inteligence, and so having to admit that one is of Polish extraction is burdensome to them. This is because of "Polish jokes" which, despite having become far less prevalent in America over the past couple decades, are still remembered.


^ This is untrue. The largest influx of Polish immigration into America occurred at the end of the 19th Century and there are many areas, in addition to Chicago, that have large Polish enclaves.


^ This is untrue. The Irish were already coming to America in large numbers in the mid-19th Century, before either the Poles or the Italians, nor do ethnic jokes in America switch from one ethnicity to another in the manner claimed. Polish, Italian, Irish, and Mexican jokes exist, and have existed, concurrently here.


^ This is untrue. Polish people have been well represented in American professional sports for over a century.


F-Stop I think your selective pride is rather uptight and afflicted with the unfortunate over-valorization of science that is so common amongst Americans in this day and age. That inebriated Pole could be a great artist, and even if he isn't, why not be proud of his prowess as a tippler?

Des, wow, I've never agreed with you more.

oh for Jah's sake Des, talk about uptight - since when we are supposed to be proud of our shortcomings?
Over-valorization? LOL That tells me you feel inadequate about science, and think that science and art are mutually exclusive.

How can you be proud of Polish p'ss artists. You need your warped mind cones checked.

The Polish ability to drink is not a shortcoming. Being a virile partier is greatly appreciated amongst people who know how to live life to the fullest. "Be Drunk Always!" The fact that you find a Pole whose finally flown away into that grand sleep of blessed holy oblivion in which one has abandoned all cares, after a day's (or a week's!) revealing, shows that you, F-Stop, are uptight not I. On the subject of unrestricted urination, which you have now brought into yet another thread, please see our previous discussion:

The Tao in Poland
polishforums.com/society-culture-38/tao-poland-53631

Polish people have been ridiculed and deemed stupid because of thier poor English. It really had nothing to do with their intelligence level. Which is ironic at least when it comes to this post because I would surmise they wanted to speak Polish and felt more comfortable speaking Polish and were proud to be Polish rather than being ashamed of it. Really this was more prevalent in the early 1900's but today this is rarely the case. I know of at least 2 people who are recent immigrants from Poland, one of which is in my daughters class. His english is very good, but I am sure if it wasn't there would be some bullying as kids are cruel

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A lot of people in the 50's hid their ancestry especially if they were eastern European (Slavic) because of the FBI and their communist witch hunts here in the USA. It was a nightmare.

I am indeed guilty of possessing with a bodily form akin to the cypress tree, but I am not mentally coniferous. I fear your recommendation is all for naught, but thanks for the concern anyway.

OK, that is funny! However, our innate ability to hold our liquor cannot compete with someone's inability to stop. The only time I was ever ashamed of my countrymen was in a bar in New Britain, Connecticut. I didn't know it was a custom there to drink a bottle of vodka BEFORE you go out.

Only one which lives such a lifestyle can condone it in others.

Anyone actually living in Poland knows how alcohol destroys families here.

Who are your countrymen? I know several American friends who drink before going out to a bar. It saves them money that way. I don't think it's as much specific to a particular country as it is just something some people do to save money if they plan on getting drunk when going out versus going out to just have fun.

We do like to veer off point here, don't we.... We're talking about being ashamed of Polish ancestry and I gave an example of one time when I was. What does this have to do with Americans? Or Irish, for that matter? (oh, and I meant a bottle per person ;) )

I was curious because your statement was that you were ashamed of your countrymen for drinking a bottle before going out (it makes no difference to me, bottle each or bottle altogether). I was curious, were you talking about Poles, as in Poles get drunk before going out and you are ashamed of that? Because my point was, if that is the case, I have met people from many nationalities who do that, I don't think it's a particular Polish trait, and therefore, I see no reason to use that as a basis of being ashamed of one's ancestry. So, no, I was not off-point. I wasn't sure of your statement and was attempting to elaborate on my confusion and why, to me, it made no sense.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Polish ancestry, isn't that a pretty diverse group (south/north and east/west)? The Russians (primarely west Russians) are a Slavic people, and Poles are in between Germanic and Slavic.

The North of Poland used to be part of Preussia, and Gdansk was called Danzig and the region was (and still is) to a larger extent populated with Germanic people compared to the south.

Sweden is much in the same situation (different genepools within the country). In the north there are "lapps", east has more Baltic ancestry and the west and south have more Germanic ancestry.

I didn't really analyze, it's just at that time, I really didn't want to admit I was Polish. My point was, I think, that logical or not, our actions often do represent a particular group we 'belong' to. Poles were a minority there, but the definitely drunkest and most embarrassing.

Ethnic jokes started with the ethnics who immigrated to America. Polish jokes came from Poles, Italian jokes came from Italians and so on and so forth. Native born Americans don't know enough about Europeans or Asians to create jokes. Americans are ignorant of anything outside of America.


BS, Europeans are much harder drinkers than any American. Beer on the British Isles, Vodka in Northern Europe, wine everywhere else. Growing up in ethnic Chicago it wasn't unusual to see Polish (recent arrivals from post war Europe) drunks literally sleeping in the gutter on a Saturday.

If Poles feel ashamed of their heritage it's because of the baggage they carry from the old country. Most likely due to the European class system than anything here in America. The biggest story is Americans think Poles are stupid because of Nazi propaganda from WWII. Hello! America was fighting the Nazi's in WWII, they wouldn't have believed anything Hitler had to say!

If anyone asks me my ethnic heritage I tell them I'm a polak from Chicago, end of story. But you know what? I have a hard time remembering the last time when someone asked me.

Reading it right now... Very interesting stuff!

I wasn't sure I understood you, that's why I asked. Glad I did. I understand. I went through that stage as a child in the US as well for a while. It made it harder having the name Kasia. Unlike the others I knew who were closet "Poles", like Maria, Anna, Tom, etc., the only one who couldn't deny being Polish was myself and a boy named Jan. Introducing yourself and every.single.time having to explain your name "I'm Polish" and then hearing all the comments afterwards, as a child, it makes you feel like a freak. But as an adult, I realize how well that initial exchange can help me understand a person and if I want to waste time interacting with them. And yes, our actions, whether we like it or not, often do represent the group we belong to.

******


I respectfully disagree. White Americans, as a national identity, come from European ancestry, hence why they are white. I'm not discussing other ethnic groups in America at the moment, that's a bit different and complicated. No nationality came over with jokes making fun of themselves. That makes absolutely no sense and I've never heard of such an explanation in my entire life. What ethnic group does that?!

Native born Americans who are prejudiced (not all are prejudice) know enough based on whatever hatred or prejudices their particular family passed down in the family. If a particular family is prejudice against, say the French, well, in their family that is a learned hatred that's been passed down. But it isn't because they are French and loathe themselves.


????

In WWI, America was sympathetic to the Germans. WWII came only a few short years after. America was in the beginning torn with which side to choose. Most Americans wanted nothing to do with the war. Had Pearl Harbor not occured, historians believe America would have never entered into the fray of WWII at all. Polish jokes were around before WWII, but they were extreme during WWII era, and not just because of Nazi propaganda, but also American propaganda. Read "Hollywood's War with Poland, 1939-1945".

Also, how does it make sense that one minute, Americans "don't know enough about Europeans or Asians to create jokes. Americans are ignorant of anything outside of America", as you put it, and then another minute say that Americans would or wouldn't listen to Nazi propaganda?

After all, there were American Nazis. In fact, there still are.


Read what I wrote: "Who are your countrymen? I know several American friends who drink before going out to a bar. It saves them money that way. I don't think it's as much specific to a particular country as it is just something some people do to save money if they plan on getting drunk when going out versus going out to just have fun".

I didn't say one vs another drinks harder? I said that the argument that a few people one person on this thread knew and was discussing drinking before going out is not exclusively a Polish behaviour, or European behaviour. I said that I know Americans who do the same thing.


Ok... ???


It really is! A great book.

Americans aren't aware of the ethnic tensions that exist in Europe. My European wife has commented to me on how well different ethnic groups in the US get along.


Totally untrue. Read Lou Gehrig's biography. He had a very difficult time in the States during that time because he was ethnically German.


Complete BS. After Pearl Harbor everybody volunteered


Because we were at war with Germany.


No comparison. I've seen Europeans (Swedes) drink a fifth of vodka like we drink a bottle of beer, and they got totally smashed. I've never seen someone so totally drunk. I've never seen that Stateside.


and there are Polish Nazi's, so?

Your theories of some kind of American conspiracy about Poles is a fairy tale. Americans just aren't that interested in the world and Poles/Polish Americans are as nondescript as you're going to get.