If your ancestors were in the "Wehrmacht"...

My family had German heritage, still they were asked formally if they were Germans (Grunwald isn't very Polish is it? Although Grünewalde would been more correct I presume)

Ofc my grandpa's father said no

That's what I'm saying all along....they were asked, nobody was forced! If they counted themselves as Germans they had to follow the same conscription rules as in the Reich of course.

All this "we were forced" was a convenient alibi once the Wehrmacht left...understandable but still only an alibi to survive the course of events!

All of Germany would have this alibi if you take it seriously...as every conscription under a dictatorship is more or less forceful. ;)
Or how do you think the military police handled Reichs-german conscript refugees???

(But it is really astounding how many Germans are here on PF!) :)

Bratwurst Boy...
According to the people that were in the DVL 3 ("Eingedeutschte") they the vast majority was indeed forced to go to the Wehrmacht. They were "Wehrpflichtige" and not "Freiwillige". The German citizenchip was voluntarily (you had the choice, take it, and live a more or less peacefull life, or don't take, stay a polish citizen and get maybe deported as a Pole to a concentration camp).


Do you mean by Germans only ethnic Germans or also people with a German citizenship (like Kashubs etc.)?

Those with the Arier-Nachweis!
Germany at that time didn't give out citizenship like it does today.
You needed blood relationship, being of german heritage.....

Volksliste 1 were all ethnic Germans in the Reich
Volksliste 2 were all ethnic Germans outside of the actually borders after the Treaty of Versailles and of those strong minorities in other european countries.

I mean those two!

And for most of the higher professions and careers Germans needed to bring documents which showed their heritage back to 1750, the so called "Arier-Nachweis".

But very rarely people were forced into 1 or 2, why should Germany do so and why?
As the Nazis were busy all the time to weed out the Jews and the "subhumans", looking under every stone for them, should they now actually force foreigners to become Germans???

You had to bring some evidence and actually apply for it or to subscribe when you were asked.
It is illogical to force non-Germans and it was not regular practice.... but that narrative was the big and useful alibi after the war!
But I think now, 65 years after we can talk more openly about this....


Freiwillige were for the SS mainly.

Wehrpflichtige were for the Wehrmacht. Conscription was for all able, male Germans. Germans only!
I'm sure there were no german nationals conscripted into the polish forces....well, the same was true with the german army too.
You can call it "forcing"...as every conscription is kind of "forcing".

But my ancestors had also an Arier - Nachweis and were categorized as Volksliste 3. We and many other people needed this to prove that there were no Jewish familiymembers in our ancestry. And there was absolutly no German blood involved! But maybe this comes so, because my ancestors were / are Kashubian.


I agree with you here on a 100 %, those that were 1 or 2 were voluntary there.


Belive me, the non ethnic German DVL 3 people were forced and it was regular practic. Yes, it is illogical, but that how things went on here, at least in the "Reichsgau Danzig - Westpreußen"! The Veterans etc. could lie, but not their "Wehrpäße". By all of them there stood "Wehrpflichtiger".

Well...to be honest....I don't know enough of your case to judge.
But if your family had the Arier-Nachweis then you are full blooded Germans as in Volksliste 1 (Congratulations).

With the big one (going back to 1700) you were even eligible for an officers career in the german forces! ;)


Well...something doesn't add up here....

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_certificate


Here is more info (in german only)
de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariernachweis


Frankly...something doesn't add up here.
As your Arier-Nachweis clearly proves your german heritage you were free for conscriptions like all Germans.

No DVL 3 for you! ;)

Thats the first time I hear that! But I can guarente you, that all my ancestors were Volksliste 3 and there was no German ancestry. In my ancestry were the majority Kashubs, a few Poles and we got the "Ariernachweis" without any problems. Hmm, maybe it was so, because my ancestors spoke German quiet well...?

Right now I'm not that sure anymore with the Ariernachweis, but I'll look it up.

Then you could hardly had an Arier-Nachweis, can't you? ;)

Look it up, if it's the real thing you should find all names and stuff from your german ancestors (birth, marriage, death, where, when etc)...after all that's what that thing was for in the first place!

(A treasure for all interested in genealogy!)

On the other hand literature nobel prize winner Günther Grass was a Kashub from Danzig...he ended the war as a youth in the Waffen-SS.

Maybe you really count as full-Germans...even then, no DVL 3 for you, but 1.

I'll look it up. But I can guarantee 100% that we were DVL 3 and were forced to go to the Wehrmacht. I think I've must been mistaken then with the "Ariel - Nachweis ;)".

Yes and no. It can give you a good indication in which direction to look, but I would never rely on the data. The Ariernachweis was one of the most often forged documents in Germany.

I disagree!
It was an official document for what your grandparents had to bring proof, like birth certificates, they needed to write to churches for marriage certificates, clerks needed to subscribe those documents etc.

Surely some could forge all that, the same who can also forge passports...but most people can't.

And they were checked and today when you are interested you can re-check it all over....a great starting point for family genealogy!

See genealogienetz.de/vereine/wgff/faq/faq_nszeit.htm
for example:

Quote:
"Im übrigen sei an dieser Stelle davor gewarnt, Angaben aus den "Ariernachweisen" unkritisch zu übernehmen."

Further down:


I believe passports could be more often forged than the Ahnenpass! ;)

Yeah. I didn't mean "forged" in the sense of "gefälscht", but more in the sense of an Ariernachweis using wrong data. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

guarantee


guarantee


not that sure


who are you kidding ?


Is that another guarantee ?


Misinformed. etc, etc.
A lot here looks like your ancestors were German. Maybe your family have lied to you over the years, in order to keep this true information from you.

I think you are living in denial.
Best check out those skeletons in the cupboard.

Your 'elite' was similar.


'Polish chauvinism' heard from a Lithuanian mouth ('more primitive partner')? You simply don't want to accept that 'barbarian' Polish culture/identity was attractive enough to be preferred over others ;) EOT

Hey Hitty. Back again from "stressing" 90 year old "traitors"?


If you think that your communist propaganda is right then I'm missinformed as hell. You seem to be really good at avoiding more truthful sources then your's are.


They had the German citizenchip in war, but they weren't ethnic German. I hope you understand the difference (I guess it's really hard to catch it for you).


Trust me, they didn't.
But I heard reports about people that were actually Volksdeutsche / ethnic Germans in Poland that hided after the war and told that they were in the resistance and were more Polish then every Pole could be. And as beelzebub mentioned right, those persons that really did it, don't brag about it. Maybe your family have lied to you over the years? Best check out those skeletons in the cupboard.

As I said serval times, Inform yourself first, then we can talk. Up to now you haven't brought anything useful to the table. Maybe by "stressing" "traitors" you try to make amends what your ancestors had done in the past? But it's ok, you are a kid.


You are repeating yourself *Yawn*


Haha. "Misinformed" said the (Hit)man who thought "Volksdeutsche" were ethnic Kashubs etc. that were in the Wehrmacht.


YAY! You've just shown again that you neither know anything about the loses of "Pomeranians" in the "Reichsgau Danzig - Westpreußen", nor you know wich logical aftermaths the partition of Poland for the inhabitants had (wich is really embarassing by the way for a such a great Pole like you). Please go on, it's getting really funny now and try to post more then a few sentences. It's not that hard, even you can manage it.

Mòrsczi Púrtk

Um !! That,s why I am pomeranian.

"There is no Cassubia without Poland, and no Poland without Cassubia"

Some later Kashubian activists rejected the idea of a separate Kashub nation and considered themselves a unique branch of the Polish nation

The Kashubians faced Germanization efforts,

During the Second World War, Kashubians were considered by the Nazis as being either of "German stock" or "extraction", or "inclined toward Germanness" and "capable of Germanisation", and thus classified third category of Deutsche Volksliste (German ethnic classification list) if possible ties to the Polish nation could be dissolved.[26] However, Kashubians who were suspected to support the Polish cause[24], particularly those with higher education,[24] were arrested and executed, the main place of executions being Piaśnica (Groß Plaßnitz),[27] where according 12,000 were executed.[

I live just down the road from here.

So are you still going to call me communist etc.

Your forefathers carried out these atrocities, so live with it.


Glad you find it amusing, I,m not laughing. Are you ?

What is your problem Hitty?

Aren't your WWII ego shooters not enough for you?

No, I completely understand preferences. But when you prefer some other "culture", totally downgrading your own and naming it primitive and other elevated, then you are nothing more than a cheap sell-out. And I don't care who he was: Ukrainian, Polish or Lithuanian. He was a scum as a person, even though he is considered a marvelous writer. (Though for me he even isn't anything to be excited as a poet either).

Wow, that's even worser...


You don't have to tell me that.


I've read serval times that some nazis belived, that Kashubs were originally Goths. Isn't that funny :D? Kashubs were, are and will be Slavs and so I'm.


Nope, they didn't. You've shown us that you don't know some basic things about the time when Kashubia was located in "Westpreußen" (and that as a Pomeranian! Or did you meant those Pomeranian dogs ;)? ) and you are trying to tell me about my ancestry? As I said, you are pretty amusing. By the way, wich atrocities do you mean exactly?


Well, one of my ancestors just got murdered there. It's good that you mention this crime, may the generations after us will never forget what happened there...


Oh, poor you.. how could I? Do you want a tissue, Hitty? Just an advice: Read closer. I didn't say that you were a communist, what I said was, that you obviously used communist propaganda as a source. That's all.


Your posts are amusing, no doubt. Please continue.

Mòrsczi Púrtk

Ah !! Now I get it. You are Kashubian decent, but shamed by the fact your ancestors were in the wehrmacht.


WORSE

That,s where we differ, your ancestors ceded to the wehrmacht, mine didn,t.


And I didn,t say........


You referred it.

Junge, junge !!

Oh, we have an English Language Professor here, ladies and gentlemen!
OK - let's look at your language, Professor!


Well, he surely is a decent Kashubian, but what you wanted to write was
"You are OF Kashubian DESCENT", Professor ;)

^^^Torq^^^


His posts are flawed with mistakes, and I have never taken the mickey once, as we all make mistakes. No one is perfect, after all.

You obviously misunderstood my intent of expressing that he was worse than I. ( Read the previous post ). But you want to take the p... , fair enough.

So putting it politely Torq, go and whistle. I,m not writing an English language test paper.

Well, his first language is Polish, second is Kashubian and English is only his
third language (maybe not even third, I don't know) so he's bound to make
a lot of mistakes - I don't mind if someone corrects my English, as it is also
my third/fourth language, but I expect the person who does it to avoid making
simple mistakes in the process ;)

Anyway - as you said, I was just taking the p**s.


Usually, when someone has an intent of expressing that another person is inferior to him
(basing on the deeds of his ancestors) I have a lot of trouble understanding that.


That's actually very polite - I don't even feel insulted. This forum is going downhill
with insults like that. You should take some lessons from Harry ;)

It costs nothing to be polite, and I would rather not go down the same road as some others in being crude and vulgar. Just no need for it.

After all, I believe people that offend on this forum are in reality weak, plus it,s against the rules.

As for


... again, read his replies, it,s not my intention to be superior to him, it is him who is trying to belittle me, then one minute he guarantees, then he,s not sure...... so I,m beginning to doubt his argument.

I personally believe he is only happy when someone gives him support, but not visa versa.

Well, your first post here was already crude...with that you deserved everything you got!

OK. Nathan, I've read this essay by Venclova. But still didn't understand why you can consider Mickiewicz so mediocre personality.

Oh, don't worry: he has no clue either. He is just desperately trying to stay relevant in this discussion so he is coming with shocking statements like this one. He is as phony as they come.

.... 1st post.

Directed to whom in person, you ?

So if someone hurts your family through treason, you would turn the other cheek ?

" deserved everything I got " ....... like what did I get ?

I believe you are German with Polish roots, with which you have a psychological problem. Otherwise what,s your interest on PF ?


And this is your problem....... ancestors from both sides.