A Personal Request to all PF members

It's like saying most balanced people don't lose their time on socializing with others.
I see you one more time at the water cooler talking to others I’m sending you home for being mentally unbalanced.

A substitude for social contacts?


Intrenet is not a way of socializing with people. It's a way of losing contact with a real life. Note, how much do you know about people here? Do you actually know who they are? They can tell you utter bs about themselves, yet you can believe you're building some relationship. It's delusory.


Reading post of some users here I can say that something like 20% of active users are complete nuts.


I didn't mean you in particular.

It does come across like that a little.


Definitely a laugh, new insights for sure, and yeah, even friendship. Oh, and of course some people just like an interesting discussion, a good talk or even a bit of an intellectual challenge every once in a while, and maybe they couldn't find that much at home or at the bar! (And maybe some people are just a little shy in real life!) Maybe, maybe, maybe! Who knows what all of our reasons could be? But to say we're all unbalanced people just because we happen to frequent a forum seems a little rash..

;)


I know a Polish guy who used to read this forum, and he found a job in Holland because I pointed him to a job agency. (He did the rest on his own.) Do you know that guy is now a good friend of mine? Hey, it's a small world sometimes!

So maybe I could rephrase that question: What do you lose?

:)


Have you ever been to a house party in Amsterdam on a Friday night?


I just meant to reassure you, that's all. (Call it a friendly gesture, even when it's unnecessary.) Oh, and even if you did, I really wouldn't care about that, simply because *I* know who I am. I think you shouldn't take *everything* people say on the internet too serious, because I'm willing to bet that half of the people you view as nuts here, really aren't *that* bad in real life. I think a few people here are pretty nuts myself, especially some of the more bigoted ones, and some of the racists here. But 20%? Not really!

:D

Only 20%? Me and convex came to the conclusion that the vast majority of active users are complete nuts.


Which is why it's so important to make sure that the racist members of this forum do *not* ever take over.


Amusement.

That's my point. That's why the Internet is not reflecting anything (maybe only itself and the Internauts opinions).


I hope so :)


I think that each side has its nuts


Were you included? ;P

And you think that the people around you *always* tell you *everything* they have on their mind? That they never pretend to be someone they're not? That they never conform to certain norms because they worry about what their neighbours *might* say about them? Or that people at a house party never act a little crazy? Or in the bar? Whatever!

Most of us are just people on the internet, and yes, there are always a few nutters among us, some positively nuts, others negatively nuts, or just nut-nuts. But seriously, if we were *all* unbalanced and nuts for frequenting a forum, then *every* person on Facebook, Hyves or any other social networking site is nuts too! Dude, we have a lot of nutters on this planet!

:O


Have a little faith in people?


I think most people here are only blowing off steam every once in a while, or acting a bit funny when they wish to take their minds off of their dull office jobs! (Gee, I don't know, but they almost seem like normal people?)

;)


Well, I'm positively nuts most of the time, very rarely negatively nuts, but usually I'm *almost* normal! (Whatever the hell ''normal'' is supposed to mean!)

xD

Damn right :)

you ?????:D:D:D:D
measurement of sanity ? that is a quote of the week like your buddy Harry used to say

I think it would be a plague of XXI cent. ;)


Do what you want but from my personal experience the Internet more isolates people than helps them to comunicate. It's just a delusion that it can open the world in front of you.


well yeah. But some brought the discussion on comepletely different "level" (e.g. threats)

I'd be inclined to also say that the Internet, while bringing some people together, has also driven a pretty big wedge between peoples too.

I think so too, but there *are* some positive sides to this medium as well.


In some ways it does, and in other ways it doesn't. I would prefer to meet and socialize with people in a more physical way too, but maybe you'd understand me a little if you lived where I live. A very small town in a rural area, where most younger people - especially from my generation - have left. I'm pretty much occupied with a study as well, so I don't have *that* much money or time to go out as much as I would like to. I agree with you in some ways, but I suppose I understand the other side of the story as well?


Ever heard of macho talk? It's probably nothing more than just that? Hey, I don't know about where you live, but boys will always be boys.. Over here, the bored ones are *always* bluffing to make themselves look a little bigger, and in the bars here? There's usually a lot of fighting going on here, and I think that's bullshit too! I would probably prefer a dancing course with someone.

:)

But yeah, go ahead and call me nuts.

;P

You get all the best bits without any of the crap. You get to be who you want to be. And ironically, it's less confrontational than real life.

It's kind of a dream world... with illusory characters - the line begins to blur.

It's the church and it's the dungeon, the righteous and the ugly. The soap box and the launching pad as well as the green field of imagery and perception. It allows one to paint with colours more vivid? It's for those who don't like to waste time with the rigidity (and the rules) of reality. ;)

But hey, who knows! ;)

But yes, there is a danger of not being able to divorce yourself from this world... cause it only exists in yer head.

How much can one *feel* towards another without never having seen or met them...? It's the ultimate in emotional projection but exemplifies the power of words and empathy...

We humans are evolving. And this is for many an easier domain to function in in an increasingly complex world... There is a compelling argument for escapism these days... maybe always...?

Maaaarysia wrote:


I don't think that's why she created this thread. But, like I said, I'm still struggling to see the point of this thread.

Maaaarysia wrote:


I never said they didn't. Go back and read my post.

Ironside wrote:


you know what the difference is between Americans/Brits living in Poland posting on PF vs. Poles on PF commenting about America/UK??? The American/UK posters have actually LIVED and WORKED in Poland, often times for several years.

I'll tell you what's "funny" Ironside......just about every single observation you make about the USA.....considering you've never so much as visited the damn place. Don't worry, you're not alone on this forum.

lodz is not a she, but a he :)

Or on a more intrinsic level, It's for those who want the book but not the cover...

Or am I completely off topic...?

Cause in response to the OP, I would say you can't divide sentiment as a byproduct of Polishness... it's no determinant of anything, especially as many here have, more or less, experienced life elsewhere. If they hadn't, why would they be attracted to a Forum exploring the views of an *international community* about Poland? This is the World Wide Web honey... likes it or not, views rarely exist on a macro scale to protect the image of any one person, any one thing, or any one country as a monopoly over any other...

And in response to Lodz... The Dalai Lama has been trying for 50 years... what makes you think you'll have more success where requests for tolerance, kindness or compassion are concerned? :P

But by all means you can try! But wouldn't it be boring if *no-one* injected a bit of cynicism into these dodgy affairs...

Is kindness something you can extend or truly interpret above any other sentiment...? Just keep in mind we are projecting ourselves at all times. So really what we say here says more about ourselves as individuals than about any economic or historic affairs, affairs of state, sexuality or regional Polishness per se...

Don't take it to heart basically.

I just dont think you caught what lodz was saying.

he spoke with me before he even posted this, and he was right, as usual, but it doesnt
suprise me that some will post the same excuses.

I reckon that's so. The world is pretty complex, real people have many facets. On a forum such as this the world is simplier and we have more freedom to speak with less restraint, without physical harm - you don't know where I live. I guess that is why some views are more extreme than real non-internet life.

Escapism combined with indignation and righteousness about the real (outside) world?

And sometimes, for those persistent enough and brave enough, usefulness and help can be given and found.

Thanks Patty ...

As for the ones who have carefully analyzed my simple little request post in a way that even the great researches would be put to test ... I have this:

Its just a request as it stood in my first post. Why is this so complex I have no idea.

You people must've heard of marketing, country branding etc? Well this predominantly English speaking Polish Forums have a great potential of it. This carries the colors of Poland, and I am sure the moderator and the admin have respect for these colors and its people with their faces deeply intertwined with it, they surely don't mean any harm. Thus I thought I suggest basic courtesy to some people who might hurt/offend/project a wrong picture of my country to people who are not really into fights or arguments or complaining!

Well there are people who will not stick to an information source. When these people would come, a nice "hello" to them or a helpful suggestion without a comment which might hurt or insult or demean their purpose cannot be rocket science or so impossible/unethical or unnatural in my view.

Ofcourse you don't have to share my view... but I think this all falls in the region of basic courtesy. You have full right to open a topic on many issues, and specifically debate or discuss them. Yes, ofcourse you can open a topic to create alot of fun in them (probably offtopic is for this specific purpose), but to intrude into someone's specific request, inquiry, purpose, story (which might be very deeply influenced by Poland or its image) is not very respectable. It makes a person remember "Polish..." with a negative thing even before he/she ever knew Poland properly. I know this is a naive thing for people to do, but this is nothing unnatural.

Are all Russians marriage scammer (even though these days dating websites issues warnings from mails coming from Russia or Ukraine)? Are all Western people come to buy convenient brides? Are all people from East looking for passports? IF you have heard these stereotypes, then you can figure how naive people can be, and how propaganda takes birth.

I for one have known excellent/good Ukrainians, Western (american), and Indian or Bangladesh or Kashmir or Egyptian people. Such respectable and high character people each that they were worth learning from, and great friends! The stereotypes look so stupid and ugly, it all looks like a diabolical scheme to separate and divide people. Yes, my bad experiences are less (thanks God!) ... but I believe it has reasons because I select friends who suit my taste, and my taste have been developed by a family of such ethics and a lifestyle which I chose (and thus it affected my attitude). I don't hang around with just anyone. I am happy with that ... to each their own.

However, sad to say that some people form perceptions. It is an international problem, and maturity comes late (or for some, never!).

When you go to a trip, say in "Seychelles", and suddenly while walking on the beach, someone rushes in and snatches your bag! Immediately you are scare, but if you are a usual version of naivety, you immediately perceive that Seychelles people are needy thugs. Or, another example, you go to a dinner and suddenly a rude man comes up and complains about your foreign looks, or just tries to find faults, inconsistency with you ... tries to analyze you and expresses your "bad reputation" to him due to many "ideas/imaginations/stories/or even some of his stupid experiences with stupid people who came from your country incidentally" ... would you feel great about that party? What if everyone else either moves away in an effort to not be a part of the scene, or just join in with the rude man? (because good people often wish to be out of such embarrassing, or hurtful/painful scenario). WOULD THE GUEST FEEL EXCELLENT? ... I don't think so. WOULD THE GUEST HAVE A GOOD PERSPECTIVE OF THESE PEOPLE/NATION... I don't think so. IS THE GUEST NOT NAIVE??? - YES! .... WOULD I COMPLAIN TO THIS GUESTS NAIVETY - No!~! ... I for once won't.

All I am trying to say is that ... leave some people some nice words ... it will not cost you too much. Atleast make way for someone else to do it, and don't involve yourself in polluting someones heart or mind. This is the least you can do for people, and Poles! Specially in Polish forums ...

I am not the Dalai Lama ... but I know one thing ... that I don't need to be a Dalai Lama to share a smile with a "greeting" or a helpful action to a person who came infront of me.

My first post contained all the logic ... I shouldn't have elaborated. But I just have to, when I see people trying to make it look something so much complicated, when it is nothing but the most simple of appeals.

LTB

Most people who spread negative stereotypes are anonimous or brief users, not the veterans. Of course there are few trolls here but they rather provoke amusement than serious responses.

Lodz can you give an example about when the image of Poland was harmed on this forum?
I understand that moderators should be less tolerant for words like "twat, turd, fucktard" etc. which are quite common on this forum and those words inclines other users to use it even if they don't do it on daily basis so it's a vicious circle.

I think that the reason of the problem lies here:


I think if those people who tends to be rude, say controvercial things, mock or test people's behaviour would not dare to be like that if they were to put their picture and full name on public...


ok you're excused ;)


British don't moan so much as Americans. Therefore I think that there must be a greater cultural difference between Poles and Americans. They really seem to not get it what it's going around them even if they live in Poland for years. That's the impression which I got by reading this forum.

By the same token, do you think I can do anything about the reputation about my country through a forum...? No, but I can stand alone as fitting into a perceived stereotype, or escape it through my own distinct actions, beliefs, attitudes...

It really depends on the character spilling the views and the characterisation given by the interpreter.
We're dealing with human beings here first and foremost. Not everything you think can be interpreted through a veil of Polishness surely...? Just as what I say about Poland may be more indicative of my own cultural background than yours. ;)

You're asking people to hold general views about something when they may specifically be coming here to state and explore distinct and polarised views on purpose...

I mean if you think this little forum can harm the reputation of your country then I think you're a little paranoid. Don't worry, we all love Poland... one way or another... That's why we're here... one way or another. :)

I repeat. The views here say more about the individuals than the country in question. That's why we have usernames... we aren't interested in anonymous comments, we want to know who's behind them...

Because an intelligent person knows that no-one can speak for a country, let alone someone else's ultimate opinion about that country...

I find the forum quite accurate.The Serb speaks how you expect from a Serb,the Poles are like Poles there is difference between Poles and Poles-Ams,the British behave british,the Scotts are Scotts and so nothing is hidden under the sun as we say here.

Do I need to? ... Its filled. You will find most of them in the relationships, business, and genealogy parts of the forums. However, its not limited there, they spill other directions too.

I am here since the forum was made (this is my second ID, I had a previous one which some friends here know ... I sometimes go away for months to years, and them come back depending on my schedule), I know well what I am talking about.


Your country is Australia. An English speaking country with great economic power and immigrants coming from all over the world ... your country is not Poland. Poland and Australia are two very different kinds of country on all levels. Even the very history, the type of country ... everything ... each and everything is different. You are a land of immigrants ...

We however have limited scope to explain our country. Do you know that still some people from the west don't know where Poland is? Yep, I am not joking. We are not English speaking people, even my own vocabulary is very limited but I try to improve, and make full use of whatever words I know.

Thus, this forum becomes unique ... and so can be perceived as a rare keyhole into Poland.

I hope I could explain this point to you. I cannot word by word tell you each factor why it is different for Poland, but some you may yourself discover by your thinking and logic.


Then why not mention it at the bottom "whatever I said regarding Poland, is my limited perception of it! I am a ....(country name) "

I am not really saying you need not say your thing. I am just asking to be courteous, to be polite and kind. How can that be extraordinary oppression? ... Also Ashley, I didn't find you to be offensive or cruel to anyone/visitor/curious person as of yet! So why are you trying to make it so complicated? You are one of the polite ones in here as far as I have seen.


No I'm not. Its an IT age ... and this forum is one of the ONLY means for a foreigner or someone deeply affected by Poland to know about it. Even if this forum won't help them, atleast it should not make them feel bad. As eventually it might make a perception which might affect an individual Pole somehow. Imagine a new family member, perhaps a mother in law or a to be spouse ... she comes here and gets burns! How will that affect the Pole? It might even for a day make his/her effort harder to make a place in the heart.

Also, there is no reason to think of a person as paranoid when he makes a polite and sincere effort to make an honest point as I did.


Most people lack this intelligence ... specially when its about a foreigner or foreign land, people "love" to feel insecure and thus they doubt.


I think you cannot generalize like that. This forum have some trolls you know, regular trolls ... who can know that better than you?

I have benefited from this forum that is why I continue to visit it.The ones who don't get benefit can leave.

A Good thread, and a good call the people. On the other hand I have doubts it will have any effect in the end.

Post 11 sums it very well.


Unfortunately, there is a lot of nonsense and stupidity because of those regular trolls and they are protected here for the sake of freedom of speech which is only an excuse to keep PF tabloid in my opinion.

no ? about it.

Listen, all I can say is that we are all changed by the people we meet and the places we frequent. That is kind of unavoidable. But I think anyone who has been fortunate enough to visit Poland, be shacked up with a Pole, marry one, or have Polish in their heritage, would know as well as i do that there are good and bad aspects of the place, and they *are* somewhat uniquely Polish... that can sometimes get lost in translation...

And by way of shared human experience, your issues become mine by default, through the penetration of human consiousness. We immediately take on the issues of others because we are able to project ourselves into their shoes... but we still wear our own and live through our own experiences...

So if we have gone through life with a certain country or group of people entirely off our radar, does it mean we are entirely ignorant about them? It may just mean that own reality hasn't brought us in contact with them yet. Shame, yes. Poland's so great. :)

At the end of the day, does it matter what people think about Poland, if they base their opinions on rumour spinning and stereotypes..? Honestly? No. And who's opinions are valid anyway?

(Oh god, I *am* complicating this aren't I?) Oh well, I can't be stopped now...

But then what? How long should someone stay in a certain country to pick up an ''accurate view of it''? Some people dislike (for whatever reason) their native countries too, and simply can't wait to leave... *ahem, immigration, ahem*. (And then love them years later forgetting the bad bits.)

Truth is, there are many lives being lived in every country. You could end up living a not so nice existence as a visitor *or* a native in any particular place, and this can end up jading your view of that place, when in reality every place is ok unless you're trying to realise your aspirations in it.

Is this more accurate than someone simply retelling their negative impressions of that place after only a weeks visit?

And I don't mind to complicate things, because, really, everything's *rather* more complicated than we at first think... if you think about it. ;) But I can see how you may not agree, as you are the original poster with the strongest view on this.

You don't need to reply, I know I'm a headache... aneurysm, whateva!

I can't speak for other people, but I would *definitely* tell you everything I've said to your face, just like I'm doing here. And just because some people are a bit rude sometimes, doesn't necessarily mean they're always hateful or trying to hurt people! (As if Polish people never use the word Kurwa or similar expressions?)


Thank you so much!

;D


And there's nothing wrong with that request, but some people here immediately start to equate our use of language with friendliness. Sure, wether it's always classy or tactful or not is debatable, but surely we don't have to act like Queen Victoria all the time? I do agree with the fact that such language isn't at all desirable when someone's asking a nice and polite question, but I really don't see any harm in a couple of jokes between a few regulars who are known for being a little rough around the edges..

''Hey *******, can you hand me that screwdriver for a second?'' ''Sure dickhead, there you go.'' ''Thanks, prick.'' ''I've heard that dizzy employer of yours fired you, but I might know of a couple of addresses for you if you like.'' ''Okay.'' ''So do you need a job ********' ''Yeah I do, you talking ash-tray, thanks a lot!'' ''Hey, no problem, pancake.''

That's how I grew up.

;)

The problem that some people have is that conversations in this forum do not follow the usual path.I mean sth happens and everything leads to very different directions from that of media so the whole topic gets dismissed as irrelevant.

Is it overrepresentation of trolls,is it discrepancy of internet from real life is that low lives pollute the forums what is it?

Honestly I don’t know, I’m too dizzy from the height you’ve elevated this topic to… now here’s a biscuit for you. Go on have it, it’s ukrainka-flavored.

man.....i keep reading this thread and i flat out don't understand what LTB is talking about. i'm giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming he didn't just mean to say, "can we just be nicer to each other?" there must be more to this ongoing thread than that..........right???? if not, it's just as pointless as I currently think it is.

i have a request. instead of referring back to your OP when asked questions, how about you give us a bulleted list, 3 bullets would be good, to summarize what the point of this thread is.