Poles in Ireland, are they second class citizens?

oh lucky you :P

mine is still in poland im going over next month. cant wait

We went through the meeting up once every month thing too but can't stand being apart anymore.

We had originally thought of her coming to Ireland mid March but each time we met we moved it forward until it's happening next week. I have some of her clothes in my wardrobe at home and it feels lovely.

I have found my girlfriend to be the most loving person i have ever met before.

Deano dude I hope things work out well for you two too.

its nice its all working out for you.....
i know she would like to be here but she cant

the distance is so annoying damn it gets on my nerves every second

yeah i find mine to be the most amazing special beauiful wonderful loving person

she is the greatest i have never ever met a girl like her...or even feel the way i do for her

and me and her have so much in common
as she always says were the perfect couple :P :) :)

cheers man

Dear Sir

I am some what disappointed as an Irishman about your commnets about my country, you will surely underdstand not all immigrants are sucessful in integrating into our society

remember nobody forces someone to leave their country it is that person choice. Most peopel from Poland and the eastern block countries have achieved a reasonable level of living and have contributed to this country and also contribued to their own by sending back money to their families back home. I dont agree that ALL IRISH BUSINESS OUR RACIST THIS IS VERY STRONG LANGUAGE. There is always going to be problems with integration and look at this way the Irish goverment and the Irish people by their very nature are welcoming but you must understand immigration into Ireland has happened very very quickly over 10 per cent of population if you were to reverse this and say immigration into your country was the same how would you feel?. Ireland has handled its immigrants in a very caring way in many areas. People come to Ireland to work some will stay and many will go home to their families. We have a saying here never bite the hand that feeds you this applies to the the Irish people and all nationalities.

Good Luck to you.

And this was achieved with dialog. My hat off to the people of Northern Ireland. Your a credit to the whole human race!

hairball: are your balls so hairy?

Eddien: it is a common mistake by the British to think that they themselves rebuilt their country from scratch. It is for 70 per cent due to the EU, from which they -grateful as they are- want to pull out asap, and for 30 per cent thanks to immigrants to do the dirty jobs no "über-British" as I come to believe is the general attitude on that island, wants to do. Well, if you are so good at rebuilding yourself, please, please, PLEASE, pull out of the EU and see if you can make it without us. I think the EU should make the right move and kick Britain out as they NEVER comply to any of the regulations as everything is a "decrease of their national integrity", get a bleeding rebate in contributions the size of the gross national budget of the Netherlands, my home-country and just do whatever they please: the EU decides not to go to Iraq; Britain immediately sends troops. So, pls, leave the EU and see if you can make it. I doubt it: the US will support you, but that's not enough as you will be faced with massive duties from the rest of Europe. You will find out that Britain is actually nothing more than just another island off the cost of Europe, which unfortunately still thinks it is a superpower, while in fact they haven't been since 1914. I love Britain, but I definitively hate the British attitude towards the EU, a little gratitude should be in place.

As I am living in Ireland, one can say that unfortunately it is true that there is starting to be a tendency to regard in general ppl from Eastern Europe, Africa and so on as inferior, thieves and the like. But I would like to put this on the account of ignorance, being too lazy to show interest in other cultures or in some cases plain old stupidity. Hell, even I, who comes from a far more advanced country than Ireland was in the first years of my existence here being told to f*ck off to my own country for on average 3-5 times a week. In a way, I don't blame them really as the influx has indeed been overwhelming for the last 10-15 years whereas they were an isolated island since their independence from Britain, maybe they just have to get used to the fact that there is something like immigrants as opposed to emigrants. For me it is so much easier in that respect; being from continental Europe and from a country that has always been one of the richest in the world, we have been used to immigrants for hundreds of years; all they have to do is cross the border and they are in. As an island it is of course much easier to kind of isolate yourself from this and if you are regarded as a 3rd-World country as Ireland was some good 25 years ago, there is little incentive for immigrants to go there. Now with the ocurrance of the Celtic Tiger things look much brighter and for heaven's sake, you cannot blame ppl to go to places where they can make a living if in their own city/country they cannot as I am sure that the lot of the immigrants would rather stay in the familiar surroundings of their hometown if they got the opportunity there to make a decent living, instead of going to a rainy, windy island.

There is no point in denying racism/discrimination amongst Irish employers, the simple fact that I more than once got turned down for a job for which I was well qualified for and had more than enough experience and (at least in one case) an Irish friend with not half of the qualifications and experience got the job says enough. The explanation is usually that I do not have enough experience :) But that is just one of many examples and I hear from other ppl that for Polish ppl it is even worse. So, I think there is a task for the Irish government to take up penalties for this behaviour to nip it right down in the bud. As there will come a time that the Irish economy will go down (as any other European country knows and experienced) and then the ppls of other countries will remember this attitude when Irish come to work in their respective countries.

I personally think the influx of foreigners is a blessing for Ireland as it brings in new blood and in general it's always an enrichment of a culture when other influences start to pour in.

M-G (Ad Valvas)

BubbaWoo: first of all, I am not your mate; my mates are generally educated, secondly if I were to go back to my own country, a lot of ppl (including Irish) would lose their jobs as well: I employ Irish, Polish and several other nationalities, so I guess you're just one of those tracksuit-cult followers which have nothing better to do than complain how well they off they would be without foreigners, because they would like to clean their toilets themselves or work in a Centra with all their education and all.

M-G (maybe Australia is a good option for Bubba?)

Obviously you didn't read my post correctly; if you would've, you would've read that it was only the first years like this. As I am in this country for more than 4 years now, it has ceized to exist. What ppl are trying to tell me by saying this is basically: "hey look at me, I am stupid, I am not capable of forming my own opinion and instead I without thinking take over the opinion of some other retard that has a skewed image of reality and does not seem to understand that Ireland just can't make it without foreigners". Capice?

M-G (impropria impropriae est)

Kilkline: That's a very good one; Holland pays considerably more contributions than Britain to the EU, it's a proven fact. We for one together with Germany and Sweden pay the most money to the EU and get the least back. Your major industries? You're referring to that out-of-date old crap that once was? Or to Selafield, which basically just pollutes another country's sea? Hm, on Industries you are beaten by Germany, on financial matters you are beaten by Holland...By the way, Holland is the biggest exporter of Diary-products in Europe and farout the biggest exporter/producer of flowers. Also in the IT field, after the US was Holland the first country to generally accept the new technology. Holland invented the CD :) Your empire got big because you just stole Dutch territories...And on and on. Except for a handful of bands (Beatles, etc) you guys have done nothing decent since 1945.

It depends on what ppl you meet: not only did it happen to me, but to quite a few other ppl I know as well. And it's not really my accent: my English is pretty good, if I may say so; it leaves the ppl always guessing wether I'm American or not :) But, before everybody gets the wrong impression: I do not hate the Irish nor the British. It's just some bad apples in the Irish basket that do so; the majority of the Irish ppl I know are very sound ppl and wouldn't hurt a fly and I consider them as my friends. Also, as stated, I like Britain, I've studied there for nearly half a year, but I just don't like the British (political) attitude towards the EU, an opinion which is shared by a great deal of the European continental population - if you catch my drift.

M-G (Senatus Populusque Romanus)

uk contributions 13 739 900 046 euro

netherland contribution 5 552 933 781 euro

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_statistics

Please clarify that with facts rather than imagination.

In 2006 contributions to the EU were:

Netherlands- 5 552 933 781 euros

UK- 13 739 900 046 euros

These figures also take into account the special considerations given to the United Kingdom to reduce its contribution through a rebate.


I wasnt aware that Amsterdam had usurped London as the worlds financial centre. When did that happen?

[Ąquote=MareGaea] By the way, Holland is the biggest exporter of Diary-products in Europe and farout the biggest exporter/producer of flowers. [/quote]

I believe you also make those little plastic bits that go on the end of shoelaces. Dont forget that.


Lighter than magazines.


Like candy from a baby. Empires steal territory, its what they do. You had a go at it but didnt cut the mustard.


Clutching at straws now arent you. Define an area in which Britain HASNT contributed massively.

It's not a matter of absolute numbers; Britain is much bigger, not only in landmass, but also in population than the Netherlands are, therefore, of course, they going to pay more in absolute figures. Fact however is when you take this in consideration when a population of 60.7 million put against a population of 16.4 and taking also in consideration that the contribution per capitae in Britain is (with 13 739 900 046) 226.35 (give or take) against 338.59 per capitae in the Netherlands with 5 552 933 781 contribution, which is in my book 112 Euro more. Furthermore the Expenditure of Britain is 8 294 200 000 against 2 190 400 000 for the Netherlands. This leaves a total expense for the UK of 5445700046 against 3362533781 for the Netherlands. In other words, the EU costs the UK per saldo 89.71 (give or take) per capitae whereas it costs the Netherlands 205.03 (give or take) per capitae, which is nearly 3 times as much. So, based on the relative facts, Holland pays more than Britain. The rebate is taken into consideration, also the fact that the rebate will be lowered as of this year or next year will increase the proportion to be payed by the UK. Consider all this when the UK has a population of nearly 4 times as big as the Netherlands and tell me, which is the biggest contributor?

I'm gonna get back to you on the other parts, but I have some work to do which requires my attention right now.

M-G

*) figures are based on the same Wikipedia source you used.

You said "Holland pays considerably more contributions than Britain to the EU" when what you meant to say was 'Dutchman pay considerably more than a Brit.'

But you're changing the criteria now. OK.

Just a quick point on the main topic. I read an artical the other week about how Ukrainians were in sweat shops illegally around Krakow, their passports were taken and threatened that if they did not work long hours for little pay they would be deported.

Ireland has a long history of immigration, there are about 3.5 million Irish people in Ireland and 70 million people outside of Ireland in the world that hold Irish passports. 40 million of them are in America. And it annoyed me how quickly Irish people forgot this and talked down "eastern Europeans".

It seems the same might be happening here?

once again using the same wiki source, and another unexplained calculative process designed to give point proving figures - it seems that netherlands costs the eu 206 euros per capita per annum whereas the uk costs only 92 euros... which in my book is 114 euro less

Nothing hard there: Contributions - Expenditures / Population. I did not calculate the Expenditures as a seperate entity as this is being counterbalanced by the contributions.

M-G (Still busy and still thinking that if the UK thinks they are so fabulous, maybe they should try it outside the EU - see how long they last: I think you can sit and wait for it)

yawn - you're getting all pantsy because the UK wants to keep some of their identity - you lot are just germans with dodgy footwear and rank food and probably the ugliest men in the world!

given the relative costs it might be more prudent to kick out the netherlands given that they cost alot and contribute little

infact you could have 2 uks for less than the cost of 1 netherland

Shelly, you are on break from the registry? Identity? What Identity? As 51st state of America? Hm. Or are you still pondering on how big you USED to be? Well, wake up: the UK is just an island off the European coast and although it wants it wants so very badly not to, it's just a has-been: the real decisions are being made in Brussels and Washington and nowhere else. Hell, even Ireland is richer than the UK. Anyway, that we might have the ugliest men in the world (the Germans that is, thank god I am Dutch, 6 ft 2 and according to the females in my surroundings not too bad at all), the UK have the most ugliest females in the world, so there is a match I guess :) Rank food? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA no, throwing everything in ****** old fat and drowning everything in vinegar and this hideous brown sauce - that's quality cuisine... And well, I have to agree about the shoes and stuff - but then again; to me the only function of shoes is to protect my feet from asfalt and rubbish and water, so I basically couldn't care less. Now, go back to your pots and pans.

Bubba enlighten this completely unrealistic calculation - even the EU HQ have admitted that the Netherlands, together with Germany and Sweden pay the most per head - the top 3 payers.

M-G

Btw, I read somewhere that some major industrials have made it clear to the government of the UK that if they will not switch to the Euro, they will withdraw their industries from the island. So I guess, they will have to adjust - welcome to the 21st century. Just wish I could remember where I read this - was it Der Spiegel, maybe?

M-G (by the way, it is a general -continental-European opinion, not only a Dutch one, whereas my remarks about the UK are concerned)

I've noticed that most of the people who go on about what Britain used to be tend not to be British. Its foreigners who go on about empire and the like. Still, its good to know they're teaching you the history of a country that has actually had an impact on the world.


Better than a 'never-was'.


You're the one who has admitted to speaking with a fake (or should that be 'phoney'?)American accent. No wonder the Irish tried to chase you out of their country like St Patrick did with the snakes.

Marea - Im still trying to figure out if you're serious or if you're simply trolling. If you have that attitude the whole time Im not surprised that people have told you to f-off. Indeed Im surprised that you still have any employees. Most foreigners Ive met here say they like Ireland. Admittedly, some hate it - but they normally dont stay too long as i wouldnt in a place I dont like.

I detect that you dont particularly like the place so it seems strange to me that you would stay. I wonder which part of Ireland you live in?It sounds lik Dublin - If so which part? just to satisfy my curiosity ;)

What Britain used to be was actually the follow-up of what the Netherlands were before them. Fact (according to Wallerstein): There are only 3 countries in the world to obtain complete hegemony in the world's history (in historical order): 1. Holland (1600-1700) 2. Britain (1700-1800 + 1850 - 1914) 3. the United States (1914 - now). The fact that the Netherlands were the first Republic in the world (although a kingdom again now), founded New York, discovered Australia, New Zealand, created YOUR Santa Claus; the fact that the Dutch revolution of 1787 served as a blueprint for the French Revolution in 1789, the Dutch constitution served as a template for the American constitution, the fact that most 'loan-words' you have in English are actually Dutch in origin, the fact that the first ever corporation in the world was a Dutch one, the fact that nearly all the flags in Eastern Europe as well as the French and the Italian ones and many others in the world are derived from the Dutch tri-color, which is by the way the oldest in the world, the fact that we carried out many wars against you British and won a few, the invention of the microscope are just a couple of facts in which shows that you don't have to be Great Britain to have an impact on the world.

I would definitively would not say that the Netherlands are a never-been - learn your history a little bit better

I do speak with my normal accent, only the perceivers are confused wether it is an American accent or not - I don't talk like that on purpose; I have some relatives in the US, and it's the only English I learned when I was young. So it definitively not phoney. However, what is phoney are your responses - just simply b*tching, and definitively in your last answer wrongly. I know you are proud to be British (proper British), just as I am proud to be Dutch. But you British are lazy as it comes to languages - you expect everybody that comes in to speak your language (which is normal, though), but you also expect everywhere you go that everybody speaks your language too! You're worse than the Germans as they sometimes try... I speak 5/6 languages - and you? And one last remark: I speak better English than a lot of Irish (and British ppl for that matter) I know :)

Deise: hey, I am not trolling, I haven't used any bad language towards my discussion partners - just try to get my point across. Besides that, I have said many times that I don't mind Ireland - I do not hate it (only the weather:) ). If you would like to call that trolling, go ahead. I just wonder what you would call the reactions then? Gallant answers? I live in Dublin, indeed, in Ballsbridge to be precise. And I am good to my ppl as I am good in what I do. Even this goes on about Britain, I do not hate Britain, I just hate their attitude towards Europe (and with me many continental Europeans do so). Or am I not allowed to critize? I pay taxes just like you and spend all my money in Ireland, so I contribute to the wellbeing of the Irish economy. If I would hate the country, I would send most of my earnings to Holland or where ever, then it will leave the country never to be of any use for the Irish Economy anymore. See what I mean?

M-G

and there was me thinking all the dutch had given the word was alcohol induced bravery, splitting the bill with your mrs and nonsensical gobbledigook... oh yes, and loads of drugs and porn...



obviously

Certainly, the brits, in contrary to the poles, know how to take a constructive criticism. :)

No hard feelings of course to ya all. :P

Took that from ya.


..and them as well.


Yeah but it was Brits who actually put it to some use.


The Dutch accent does not and has never sounded anything like American. If anything, Irish sounds more American as that is the accent that has had the biggest influence in the creation of the American accent. You put it on. You probably say 'cookie' when you mean 'biscuit' and enjoy saying 'yoe-gurt' just for the sake of it.

Some Dutch and Scandinavians do talk with American accents and it sounds ridiculous. They like to say 'kinda' alot. Some of them even say 'Gee'. Its pitiful.

its getting the better of you matty... but at least youre not moaning about it... which is a blessing for us all :-)

Hm, guess the British are too busy critizing themselves that they do not allow anybody else to do so :)

M-G

Now thats telling me a hell of a lot about your personality...a man that couldnt give a **** about his appearance.....


Height means nothing and Irish women are well known for their bad taste in men!


I meant the Dutch and you know full well I did


No you use mayo instead, now thats pure class!


Yes Im proud to live here and it seems to attract a lot of people from around the world, maybe its because of our superior language, I mean who the fek wants to learn Dutch...doh!

Don't be fooled that I don't moan on regular basis Bubba. I just don’t have enough time to do it both, in real and cyber world. :)

really matty... i expected more from you... your compats seem to manage both, why cant you...? ;-)

We gave the world Mushrooms too :) And don't forget "Reservoir Dog's"- Theme Song
If the missus earns just as much as you do, there is no reason why she shouldn't pay half. Normal :)

M-G

Because he's got special cheeks ;-)


so they certainly didnt give the world gentlemen then...