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WHY DO POLISH PEOPLE THAT COME TO ENGLAND CAN'T SPEAK ENGLISH?


Lir  
21 Dec 2008 /  #91
we are not talking about British people abroad

Why not ? If the thread asks a question and by that a debate ensues then it is perfectly reasonable to bring in comparisons.

we are talking about THIS country and the people in THIS country

Yes ! See answer above :)

your a teacher

Am I ? I never knew that. Since when did I become a teacher <please get your facts straight>

so you can read the topic i assume :).

Can you though or are you too blinkered to be able to debate and discuss this thoroughly or are you merely just trying to continually have a go at Polish people because they do not act in the way you would like them too ?

ly annoys me when you get all high and mighty, don't do it!!!

Tough ! There are plenty of things that may annoy me about some things you may write !! Please don't tell me what to do or what not to do. I'm a member here just like you and as such entitled to my own views and therefore will voice them. That is what a good debate is all about without getting too personal about the poster.

is that to much to ask??

So what sort of service do you expect when you go to a fast food outlet or a sandwich take away shop ? No staff at those sort of outlets <especially in the South or in busy Stations, shopping Centre's etc > are going to engage in chit chat. That;s aklways been the case especially in London <never mind which nationality> If I go to get a Chinese takeaway or restaurant , they only need the number of the dish you are ordering and they never chat away in English either. So my point is are you expecting something which may be unrealistic and therefore <without meaning too > singling out the Polish people ?

i don't apply for jobs that ask me to speak Dutch because i cannot speak it

The Company who hire them obviously decide what they require from their future employees and I feel sure that if the staff they were recruiting, were required to be able to hold a conversation then they would recruit accordingly. It appears that the type of staff you are talking about in your examples are fast food outlet staff.

I go for a coffee to say a branch of Cafe Nero, in general at least one or two of the staff are Polish, they have sufficient skills to ask me what I want etc, I pay my money for the coffee and that's it. If you said they were engaged to be Call Centre staf and they couldn't speak a word of English then I might have agreed with you.

I used to work a lot in London <well before the recent Polish influx> and most of the staff at those sort of outlets didn't speak English well and if you even smiled at someone they would think it was odd.

in a position where they need to speak it.

So maybe you could expand on this and say what sort of positions are they in , where they need to speak much better English and it is causing problems ?
away guy 10 | 343  
21 Dec 2008 /  #92
maybe they married to someone there and still learning english , dont judge people too fast you never know why they could be there.......i speak some polish but not perfect im here cause of my wife i havea better life and more things than 80% of poles back home.
espana 17 | 910  
21 Dec 2008 /  #93
are you merely just trying to continually have a go at Polish people because they do not act in the way you would like them too ?

tornado you are not a master and these polish people are not your slaves :)

i know tornado that you are talking about england but what do you think if you are in a polish pub in england and you have to speak in polish because the waiter doesnt speak any english ? what about if the waiter ignores you because you are not polish?

british people do that abroad ..... and is disgusting behaviour :(
Lir  
21 Dec 2008 /  #94
what about if the waiter ignores you because you are not polish?

Are you being mischevious espana lol :)

Why would the Polish waiter ignore him ? If Tornado shouts a beer or piwo then the waiter <I am sure > will understand him :)
Wahldo  
21 Dec 2008 /  #95
Are you being mischevious espana lol :)

I don't think so. He points out yesterday that in his native Spain he often has to speak English to British bartenders because they are too lazy (or arrogant) to learn his language.
Lir  
21 Dec 2008 /  #96
I don't think so

Ok, thanks for your feedback. I was just kidding around though :)
Wahldo  
21 Dec 2008 /  #97
I was just kidding around though :)

;- D
espana 17 | 910  
21 Dec 2008 /  #98
i m not kidding , i feel excluded like tornado :)
Mister H 11 | 761  
21 Dec 2008 /  #99
it is not really the fault of the person employed, it is the fault of the employer, however at the same time. If you are not fit for the job and you probably would consider when dealing with the English public that a grasp of the language maybe helpful but yet still apply for such jobs!!!!.

I agree that it's not the fault of the person employed as such and that the employer should have a duty to only employ people that can speak English fluently.

It's a bit of a 50/50 spilt I guess. People shouldn't apply for jobs that they won't be able to do, but if they do then they shouldn't get them. However, it someone doesn't ask for much in the way of money, they often get taken on regardless.

There should be rules in place to protect such people from such employers. It's them I blame more than the workers themselves in most cases.
tornado2007 11 | 2,274  
1 Jan 2009 /  #100
There should be rules in place to protect such people from such employers. It's them I blame more than the workers themselves in most cases.

that is exactly the point, i have been talking ever since i joined PF about a proper structured immigration policy, if i can see it why can't the government???
Mister H 11 | 761  
2 Jan 2009 /  #101
I can see it, but have no idea why the Government can't, other than assuming that people avoid things that are just too big to deal with.

The UK has been sliding into this situation for years and the electorate have let them.
JustysiaS 13 | 2,240  
3 Jan 2009 /  #102
if i can see it why can't the government???

ślepota wybiórcza - selective blindness ;). they were getting paid the big bucks for years for doing feck all, i'm sure they are very aware of the issue, they just probably don't feel like doing anything about it cos that would mean getting off their fat, lazy corrupt asses. this country is going down and immigrants not speaking any English must be somewhere at the end of the priorities list right now anyway...
niejestemcapita 2 | 561  
3 Jan 2009 /  #103
yeh espana it is disgusting , you are right.

It reminds of how the Portuguese and Turkish Cypriots for example have been behaving for YEARS in London. yeh try and go in a Portuguese cafe aaround Vauxhall they will treat u like scum, or invisible.

All nationalities can be ignorant, nobody has a monopoly.

In fact there are Spanish ppl in London who have been claiming benefits and living in council houses for years who only ever speak to to other spanish ppl.

Incidentally I think the level of English spoken by Polish in ENGland is impressive.

By the way which illiterate started this post?

Cuidate amigo xxx
Trevek 26 | 1,702  
18 Jan 2009 /  #104
Just a few observations:

In UK many people had not been abroad on holidays until the 1970's. Being an island there was often little contact with non-English speaking cultures in many parts of UK. OK, if you lived in a city you might be in regular contact but not so much in other areas. In some ways this explains why people didn't bother learning languages so much. I mean, I grew up in Shropshire and learned French and German at school. In 25 years (I'm older now) I only ever met 2 French people once in my area... so what good was my French.

In areas of Europe you were/are more likely to find speakers of other languages and more likely to have a reason (trade, tourism etc) to learn another language (think Russian, German etc).

Funnily enough, I was more likely to experience Polish or Czech because of the 'displaced' people who came to the area after the war. But as such immigrants usually assimilated they would probably speak English amongst 'the natives' (even today you'll find many old Poles don't speak Polish to learners of Polish).

I'm now teaching English in Poland and find there is a high level amongst many of the younger people... and a willingness and reason to learn the language. Amongst the older people it is often German... very useful for speaking to tourists (so, a reason to speak it). In fact, when I was in Mazury recently nobody would speak Polish to me... only bloody German!!!!! Ich weisse nicht, ist mein Polnisch sehr schlecht (or only my German)?

The standard of English education outside the large towns is a problem, partly because they can't get decent teachers and partly because no decent teacher would want to work for the wages when they could make more in a private school. There's a lack of facilities generally in the villages and that includes education in many places.

A few years ago I was teaching English on a course run by the Irish Tourist Board for young Poles to go and work in hotels in Ireland. It was a 10 week trade-training course for waiters, barstaff, cleaners and kitchen staff. It was also run in English. When the course was run in areas like Poznan many of the applicants had good English because thy were town educated and often university educated. Whe the course was invited into Warmia/Mazury (because of the high unemployment) many of the applicants were from rural areas and did not have the necessary level of English. After 2 or 3 years the course closed... one year there wasn't even the necessary number of trainees because the levels of English were too low.

So, why do Poles come to England who can't speak English? Well, having worked a few years in factories myself, I know you don't always need to say (or hear) much to work a press or pack boxes. You can guess what the food is in the shops (pictures on wrappers are great things). Oh, and when a job in McD's pays more in a week than you might make in 2 months in your dead end village... go figure.

By the way, I think it is easier to get by in UK with poor English than it is to get by in Poland with poor Polish. At least in UK people are used to hearing forigners speak poor English and get the drift easily. In some areas of Poland the experience of hearing a student of Polish making a mess of it is something out of a fantasy novel... it's almost like they can't understand that you don't speak Polish. In Britain we supposedly speaker LOUDER and SLO-O-OWEEER!, whereas in Poland they speak faster!
MrBubbles 10 | 614  
18 Jan 2009 /  #105
The government is in a tough position - do they keep on with multiculturalism or do they push integration? So far a lot of low skilled workers have benefitted from multiculturalism because everything is translated into their own language (at the taxpayers expense) and let's face it, most of them have little or no contact with native English speakers in their everyday life. My wife's cousin has been packing boxes in some factory in the UK now for 2 years and still can't answer BASIC questions in English.

Then again she's a useless cow who went to the UK get some easy money. I think she'll get pregnant soon and start claiming benefit.

If the government decides to encourage integration, it would save a lot of taxpayers money and could promote a more cohesive society. New arrivals would be expected to learn English and adopt English customs. This could be a pain in the bum for employers who might then have to shell out on English lessons for workers. Either way wouldn't be 100% popular
Mister H 11 | 761  
19 Jan 2009 /  #106
The government is in a tough position - do they keep on with multiculturalism or do they push integration? So far a lot of low skilled workers have benefitted from multiculturalism because everything is translated into their own language (at the taxpayers expense) and let's face it, most of them have little or no contact with native English speakers in their everyday life. My wife's cousin has been packing boxes in some factory in the UK now for 2 years and still can't answer BASIC questions in English.

Your wife's cousin is a dangerous person to have about in a factory. What if there was a fire and she had to call 999 ?

I think it's wrong to put people in such situations. It should be illegal for the employer to do this.

I also object to all this transalation business. Not because I'm trying to be awkward, but resources are too stretched as it is.

Having large numbers of people that don't speak English, but are living here, creates an under-class.

Then again she's a useless cow who went to the UK get some easy money. I think she'll get pregnant soon and start claiming benefit.

Nice. They say you can choose your friends, but not your family.

I'm sure if she gets herself knocked up, she'll get all the benefits she seeks. She'll climb the council housing list pretty fast too.

Some people seem to find it hard to fathom why so many British people are upset by mass immigration. Try standing in a supermarket queue behind a heavily pregnant foreigner that's gibber jabbering away in another language and then consider who is having to pay for all her NHS care and child benefit. If you're British, it's hard not to feel rather upset and annoyed as you know it's your tax £s that are being used.

Benefits and access to things like the NHS should be linked to the length of time the claimant has been paying into the system. A couple of years of packing boxes should mean that her getting pregnant is her own concern.

If the government decides to encourage integration, it would save a lot of taxpayers money and could promote a more cohesive society. New arrivals would be expected to learn English and adopt English customs. This could be a pain in the bum for employers who might then have to shell out on English lessons for workers. Either way wouldn't be 100% popular

It shouldn't be for anyone in the UK to pay for the English lessons of foreigners. They should either learn before they get here or pay for a course themselves.

Should I expect free Polish lessons if I went to Poland ?
Trevek 26 | 1,702  
19 Jan 2009 /  #107
Mr H, what if the factory worker was deaf or non-speaking? Would you still discriminate? Presumably such workers are under the charge/supervision of a Polish speaking gang leader/charge hand.

"Should I expect free Polish lessons if I went to Poland ?"

No way! In Olsztyn the immigration office doesn't even have an English speaking member of staff! My bank, which claims it speaks English, has a member of staff who deals with credit cards who doesn't speak English and I ended up having to just hope I knew what she was on about.

The school where I work was part of something called EFS, an EU funded programme of free language courses. The paperwork was horrendous and was all in Polish. The administrator even refused to fill in forms for me (so I could just sign it) but she had to write the information out for me in Polish for me to copy. "Why not just write it out on the form?" "We have different handwriting... they might not accept it!"

When I commented that as an EU citizen involved in an EU project I should be able to get forms in my native language... "Oh!" says she, "I'm sure if I went to England I'd have to learn English to read all the paperwork..." My shrieks of laughter have resulted in a large bill for new windows all the way up the street.

I once applied for credit to buy a laptop at a local cash'n'carry. GE Moneybank refused me credit, despite me showing evidence of being self-employed and a regular tax payer. Their reason? My ID card doesn't have my PESEL (lik an NI number) on it. Such cards do not exist for EU foreigners!
Mister H 11 | 761  
19 Jan 2009 /  #108
Mr H, what if the factory worker was deaf or non-speaking? Would you still discriminate? Presumably such workers are under the charge/supervision of a Polish speaking gang leader/charge hand.

If someone was deaf and giving them a job would potentially put them and others in danger, then, yes I would discriminate. However, I think it is more of a case of being logical than wanting to discriminate.

I would imagine that each group of workers has someone that can interpret for them, but for my way of thinking, this is too risky.

My bank, which claims it speaks English, has a member of staff who deals with credit cards who doesn't speak English and I ended up having to just hope I knew what she was on about.

Exactly, which opens you up to the risk of being ripped off.

I work in financial services and I've lost count of the numbers of accounts I've seen where the Polish and other nationalities have been sold financial products that they neither need nor understand. It's a scandal, but managers turn a blind eye as it helps people meet their targets. I've even heard staff refer to foreigners that speak little English as an "easy sale". Personally I wouldn't sleep at night if I thought I had conned someone in such a blatant way, which is why I've had to be happy with lower sales figures than many others.

When I commented that as an EU citizen involved in an EU project I should be able to get forms in my native language... "Oh!" says she, "I'm sure if I went to England I'd have to learn English to read all the paperwork..." My shrieks of laughter have resulted in a large bill for new windows all the way up the street.

She's applying logic which if we tried similar would probably be called discrimination.
Misty 5 | 144  
19 Jan 2009 /  #109
Try standing in a supermarket queue behind a heavily pregnant foreigner that's gibber jabbering away in another language and then consider who is having to pay for all her NHS care and child benefit. If you're British, it's hard not to feel rather upset and annoyed as you know it's your tax £s that are being used.

I can understand what you are saying there. I look at it slightly differently though. I know Polish women who have come here with their partner and worked hard since the day they arrived. A couple of them have fallen pregnant, left work for maternity leave and returned to work after that time has been over (although working reduced hours). Their partners continue to work full time all through it. So although they have only been here a couple of years they have been paying tax all that time, they may not have contributed much but at least they have contributed something and continue to do so.

What gets me is standing in the checkout queue behind a foul-mouthed chavette who has probably never paid much tax before falling pregnant and using our tax pounds to bring up their child. It's unlikely that this person will contribute much to this country. So I understand what you mean about NHS care to immigrants but also that this country happily funds chavs to bring up other chavs and so on. That bothers me more than any one who is hardworking and contributing.

On another note - my company employs a lot of Polish people many of whom were trying to sort out English lessons but couldn't because of the times of the classes v the hours they work. So now my company is a bit more flexible with the working hours to allow time for classes. For example, one girl found a class that ran every weekend, Saturday and Sunday but she worked every second weekend. So the Boss arranged her working pattern slightly and now she attends her class every week. During holidays though she works all weekends. It just takes some give and take. ;)
niejestemcapita 2 | 561  
19 Jan 2009 /  #110
What gets me is standing in the checkout queue behind a foul-mouthed chavette who has probably never paid much tax before falling pregnant and using our tax pounds to bring up their child. It's unlikely that this person will contribute much to this country. So I understand what you mean about NHS care to immigrants but also that this country happily funds chavs to bring up other chavs and so on. That bothers me more than any one who is hardworking and contributing.

yes Misty at last a valid point!

I know of English people here in (english town............)on the estates who haven't worked a day in their lives..they think council houses and benefits are their due,,,all they do is pop out babies and act like they are special cos their ovaries work. Then they have the cheek to complain about hard working immigrants. the Polish I know are all workers, living in private rented accom for which they pay through the nose. There was was one that had a baby...so what? Her partner was working hard to support her and she was worried about claiming just child benefit! Meanwhile some english chavettes are costing the rest of us a fortune and have no intention of working EVER. I could go on...and on...on.
Wroclaw Boy  
19 Jan 2009 /  #111
What gets me is standing in the checkout queue behind a foul-mouthed chavette who has probably never paid much tax before falling pregnant and using our tax pounds to bring up their child.

That chavettes grandfather may well of killed a few Germans.
niejestemcapita 2 | 561  
19 Jan 2009 /  #112
Doubt it he was probably dealing on the black market like that spiv on Dads Army (name??>>>)
Wroclaw Boy  
19 Jan 2009 /  #113
the Polish I know are all workers, living in private rented accom for which they pay through the nose.

Thats funny the Poles i knew in England shared three bed houses between around 10. They only want a place to crash. The Poles i know in Poland are equally as tight.
niejestemcapita 2 | 561  
19 Jan 2009 /  #114
Thats funny the Poles i knew in England shared three bed houses between around 10

so what ? they are still paying the rent....just keeping costs down..not waiting whingily for a cheap house to live in for nothing.

I dont really see your point...possibly I know more family types and you ,single men..and?
Wroclaw Boy  
19 Jan 2009 /  #115
so what ? they are still paying the rent....just keeping costs down..not waiting whingily for a cheap house to live in for nothing.

Come on theres scum the world over. I have two familys living on my land and in my property guess how much rent they pay me? Ill tell you one pays 75 PLN £15.80 for a three bed house and the other 60 PLN for a one bed house / month. Theyre good for nothing scum expecting government hand outs their entire lives.

Getting the buggers out is like prising ticks from a cat, and yes ive done that several times, filthy little parasites. Never let it be said im not a tolerable man.

You said paying through the nose! 10 to a three bed house is hardly paying through the nose now is it?
niejestemcapita 2 | 561  
19 Jan 2009 /  #116
I have two familys living on my land and in my property guess how much rent they pay me? Ill tell you one pays 75 PLN £15.80 for a three bed house and the other 60 PLN for a one bed house / month. Theyre good for nothing scum expecting government hand outs their entire lives.

wow u should get hoogstraten over....he would sort them out....:) Rent a house to me instead ok?

(Quote)"never let it be said that I am not a tolerable man"(Wroclaw boy) lol lol lol......never..:}
Wroclaw Boy  
19 Jan 2009 /  #117
wow u should get hoogstraten over....he would sort them out....:)

I'll be calling in the Wermacht if it goes on much longer.
Trevek 26 | 1,702  
19 Jan 2009 /  #118
She's applying logic which if we tried similar would probably be called discrimination.

Agreed, however that she even tried to tell me that was just too funny, especially as her son is studying in a UK university.

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