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Polish as Irelands Third Offical language?


BubbaWoo  
23 Oct 2007 /  #31
no M, thats not what i am saying
miranda  
23 Oct 2007 /  #32
good then

As far as I understand, none of those Poles who now live and work in Ireland were forced to go there. I am an immigrant myself, and while I do not necessarily like every single thing about my new country (Canada), I have to say I have no problem giving this advice to all dissatisfied long term of short term immigrants: go back home. Nobody forced you here.Respect your new country as you would like your old one to be respected. There are many parallels between the history of Poland and Ireland. They are as sensitive about their independence and nationhood as we are. Have that in mind.

I am an immigrant in Canada and I don't have problem with the language, however you allowed to have your opinion. I am not sure you are in a position to tell people to GO HOME. majority of people lean the language, but some don't have the natural ability, therefore it decreases the quality of life a great deal.
Pulawy  
23 Oct 2007 /  #33
It is great to hear the Polish language on Irish streets!
irishdeano  
23 Oct 2007 /  #34
As far as I understand, none of those Poles who now live and work in Ireland were forced to go there. I am an immigrant myself, and while I do not necessarily like every single thing about my new country (Canada), I have to say I have no problem giving this advice to all dissatisfied long term of short term immigrants: go back home. Nobody forced you here.

its like this were forced to speak english were forced to live under the british goverment in the north of ireland so what do we do. were already at home we cant go home

its like this not everyone will need to learn polish if they bring it in. its to let polish people understand more policys and insurance and things like that its also for the police department aswell. you will not be forced to learn it. i learnt to speak irish but i was not forced to do it and i dont really use in it everyday life. you would think to hear that if they bring it in the whole place will just speak polish and to be honest i would rather speak polish than english
rafik  
23 Oct 2007 /  #35
It is great to hear the Polish language on Irish streets!

sure it is.it is a free country and anyone can use their language freely but still,i can't see the point in changing the constitution of an independent country.little help-why not,polish schools-why not but just for those who would like to attend and when it would not collide with the local school programs.

its to let polish people understand more policys and insurance and things like that its also for the police department aswell. you will not be forced to learn it.

exactly-this kind of little help for newcomers would be much appreciated.
Grzegorz_  
23 Oct 2007 /  #36
i can't see the point

More jobs for Polish speakers in administration and elswhere...
rex  
23 Oct 2007 /  #37
is not Disneyland mate with info in all lingos

learn English for god sake
z_darius  
23 Oct 2007 /  #38
I am not sure you are in a position to tell people to GO HOME.

Of course I am. I can't make them go home though.

majority of people lean the language, but some don't have the natural ability, therefore it decreases the quality of life a great deal.

What is this? Collective responsibility?
Look at it as you would at a restaurant. Do you insist that a sushi place carried Polish pierogi? Or do you go to a different restaurant?

In Ireland, Irish and English is all they have on the menu. If the menu is unsatisfactory, there are options elsewhere. Simple as that.
rafik  
23 Oct 2007 /  #39
More jobs for Polish speakers in administration and elswhere...

god point G-i think that i could get one of this jobs.yeah.let's change the irish constitution! :)
BubbaWoo  
23 Oct 2007 /  #40
without a doubt but just one of many - cut him down a peg or two before he has any more silly idea
Matyjasz  
23 Oct 2007 /  #41
cut him down a peg or two before he has any more silly idea

Are you offering me some... ermm... buisness??
BubbaWoo  
23 Oct 2007 /  #42
i would... but there are 2 other members who i feel obliged to offer... ermm... business to first
miranda  
23 Oct 2007 /  #43
I can't make them go home though.

that was my point

What is this? Collective responsibility?

I am not sure what you mean by that.

Look at it as you would at a restaurant.

I prefer another analogy than restaurant.

In Ireland, Irish and English is all they have on the menu

Ireland is not a restaurant and there is no such a thing as Irish language - I believe you meant Gaelic.

If the menu is unsatisfactory, there are options elsewhere. Simple as that.

my way or highway attitude/b&w thinking.
I believe that the issue is a "wee" more complex than that:)
HAL9009  
23 Oct 2007 /  #44
Hmm, this is the first I have heard of any move to have Polish made an official language of Ireland.
I live in Ireland, and take an interest in Polish matters here, maybe I spend too much time on the internet or studying Polish to not have noticed this....

(I wonder how many people were asked about this as a representative survey sample to speak for the "hundreds of thousands").

I believe the Polish Embassy figure of 170000+ polish in Ireland would be closer to accuracy than a figure of half a million.

Anyway, I think it is rather premature to think of making Polish or any other language besides the two we have already as an official language.

It is difficult enough as it is to maintian support for Irish as an official language. It requires a lot of resources, as for a start everything has to be translated into an official language and every part of every government organisation has to provide a full service in the language. This we fail to do even in Irish.

And then there are the inevitable usual questions which would crop up: What about the other cultural minorities? How many of each language group need to be resident here before their language qualifies as an official language? Is it not discriminatory to pick one and not others, etc.

Ireland has yet to learn how to cope with large non-national immigrant communities, and we're not very good at it.
As an example on the translation front I picked up a "Why do I need a TV licence" leaflet in the Post Office a little while back, written in about 10 languages. The Polish version was full of errors (no ogoneks on a and e, no dots or accents on z etc), whereas the romanian version was perfect. That shows a certain degree of chaos in its production. You'd expect them to get the Polish right before the romanian version!

Business has moved on faster. Banks and large companies selling things produce literature in Polish and employ Polish staff to communicate in Polish to their Polish customers. Chinese too, heh. There are adverts in Polish on buses and atm machines. Great for practicing my Polish on. Not so sure about the Chinese, a bit too difficult to learn I think, maybe when I have mastered Polish....

From my point of view, I am learning Polish because I think it is a part of Ireland's future. It is Ireland's third language, no doubt about that. As to being official, lets wait and see, say about 20 years.

We need cultural diversity in Ireland as we have been living in a cultural vacuum tube for too long.
z_darius  
23 Oct 2007 /  #45
The Polish version was full of errors (no ogoneks on a and e, no dots or accents on z etc), whereas the romanian version was perfect.

Reminds me of my first attempt to pass a driving exam when I first came in the USA. I requested a Polish version. I failed the exam cuz I had no clue what the questions meant. I retook the exam 2 weeks later, using English forms and it was a walk in the park.
HAL9009  
23 Oct 2007 /  #46
LOL :D
Official translations do get there eventually..., I suppose
Puzzler  
23 Oct 2007 /  #47
The hundreds of thousands of Poles who have emigrated to Ireland want their mother tongue to be recognized as third official language of the island

- The 'news' appears to me a piece of complete nonsense. I have travelled in Ireland, spoken to hundreds of Poles there, and none of them has ever said he wanted Polish to be an official language in Ireland. If any one conveyed the idea to them, I suspect they would think it a joke. The 'news' looks like an inflammatory and xenophobic lie, spread out in order to set people against the Poles. There are quite a few such lies around, especially in the UK. However, quite a few - virtually all - of you scribbling on this topic seem to believe the Poles working in Ireland want Polish to be the third language of the island. None of you have questioned the soundness of the statement. Not even szarlotka, whom I have thought an intelligent (and also compassionate) man. What has happened to you, szarlotka? Has the Polonophobic propaganda spread by the media psychopaths in UK affected you too? How can you believe such absurdities? When I think about your comments, folks, the title of Erasmus's famous book comes to mind - The Praise of Folly. Oughtn't you to be ashamed of yourselves?

:)
z_darius  
23 Oct 2007 /  #48
How can you believe such absurdities?

A Dublin-based Polish magazine has called for Polish to join Irish and English as an official language in Ireland.

Sofa says the Government should adapt to the new reality that Polish is now the most commonly spoken foreign language in the country.


gaelport.com/index.php?page=clippings&id=2471&viewby=date
Puzzler  
23 Oct 2007 /  #49
More jobs for Polish speakers in administration and elswhere

- Greg, better if we had the jobs in Poland. Better if we moved back to Poland from UK and Ireland, especially from UK, where unbelievably stupid beliefs and whining about us has reached its zenith. Why the hell should we sit in foreign lands, often be mercilessly ripped off there, treated as third class human beings (we're in the EU now!), and still be hated for our toil and our enriching the natives? F... it! Let's leave their beloved lands to the natives, and to those foreigners whom the natives prefer over us (Third World crowds).

:)
PS. I'm of the opinion that the good jobs in a given country should go to the natives of the country, not to foreigners.

A Dublin-based Polish magazine

- Well, so it follows that some hack believes (I'm not sure if it's not a joke) that Polish should be the third language in Ireland. But the author of the first post in the thread asserts that 'hundreds of thousands of Poles who have emigrated to Ireland' want Polish to be the third language of Ireland. Shouldn't he be called a liar?
miranda  
23 Oct 2007 /  #50
It is official: 2009
z_darius  
23 Oct 2007 /  #51
But the author of the first post in the thread asserts that 'hundreds of thousands of Poles who have emigrated to Ireland' want Polish to be the third language of Ireland. Shouldn't he be called a liar?

Yeah, that may be a lie. And I agree, an inflammatory one at that
Puzzler  
23 Oct 2007 /  #52
Ah, so z-darius comes from Canada? I hope that, unlike many folks living there, he doesn't have a negative attitude towards the Poles and Poland?

I have just read 'Zeze's' profile (he's the author of the first post). In the field 'Speak Polish,' his reply is: 'Hell no.'

Nice.

Mind you: this guy says he lives in Poland....
HAL9009  
23 Oct 2007 /  #53
Quoting: Puzzler But the author of the first post in the thread asserts that 'hundreds of thousands of Poles who have emigrated to Ireland' want Polish to be the third language of Ireland. Shouldn't he be called a liar? Yeah, that may be a lie. And I agree, an inflammatory one at that

He is "mistaken", there aren't hundreds of thousands of Poles in Ireland for a start.

F... it! Let's leave their beloved lands to the natives, and to those foreigners whom the natives prefer over us (Third World crowds).:)PS. I'm of the opinion that the good jobs in a given country should go to the natives of the country, not to foreigners.

If there are "prefered foreigners" here in Ireland, then it is the Polish who are those that are preferred.

ften be mercilessly ripped off there

Some of the ripping off is being currently done by Polish companies to Polish employees, in exactly the same way as Irish employers in England ripped off Irish immigrants in the 1950s, 60s and 70s. There are two kinds of people in the world, those who do the work and those who benefit from it. Nationality seldom comes into it.

PS. I'm of the opinion that the good jobs in a given country should go to the natives of the country, not to foreigners.

I believe that the good jobs should go to those best deserving of them, best able to do the job, regardless of where they come from.
z_darius  
23 Oct 2007 /  #54
Ah, so z-darius comes from Canada? I hope that, unlike many folks living there, he doesn't have a negative attitude towards the Poles and Poland?

Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't.
See a picture in my profile. That may explain a lot. The girl is my daughter. Picture taken in Summer this year.

As for folks living here and having some "opinions", I can stand my own and shoot them down if I care.
Puzzler  
23 Oct 2007 /  #55
If there are "prefered foreigners" here in Ireland, then it is the Polish who are those that are preferred

- I know, brother, that in Ireland we're being treated OK (I mean Ireland proper, because in Northern Ireland, I hear, it's not always so hunky-dory). I don't have anything against the Irish people; on the contrary, the better I get to know them, the more I respect and like them.

I believe that the good jobs should go to those best deserving of them, best able to do the job, regardless of where they come from

- Fine, but if foreigners grab better jobs and the natives are denied them, what impact would it have on mutual relations? Wouldn't it be worse than making Polish an official language in Ireland?

See a picture in my profile. That may explain a lot. The girl is my daughter.

- Hm, the fact that one's daughter wears a Polish folk stuff doesn't necessarily mean her father must be a Polonophile. I've met tons of folks born in Poland, or saying they're Polish, who were as Polonophobic as the Nazis. People hating their own country and countrymen are found in any nation. I hope my honesty doesn't offend you?
z_darius  
23 Oct 2007 /  #56
Hm, the fact that one's daughter wears a Polish folk stuff doesn't necessarily mean her father must be a Polonophile. I've met tons of folks born in Poland, or saying they're Polish, who were as Polonophobic as the Nazis. People hating their own country and countrymen are found in any nation. I hope my honesty doesn't offend you?

Your honesty doesn't offend me at all. But your paranoia (for the lack of a better word) worries me a little.
Oh, born in the USA and educated in Canada, she speak perfect Polish. But then, you may think that she was taught Polish to spy against Poland :)
Puzzler  
23 Oct 2007 /  #57
But your paranoia

- What 'paranoia'? Please, give any evidence of it (if you can).

you may think that she was taught Polish to spy against Poland

- But have I thought so? Aren't you a little paranoid in anticipating I might?

Your honesty doesn't offend me at all

- Yeah, right.
:)
z_darius  
23 Oct 2007 /  #58
Look Puzzler,

I am Polish, my wife is Polish, and my daughter is Polish(+American/Canadian).
Your remarks are out of line, and your words ("saying they're Polish, who were as Polonophobic as the Nazis") are offensive. It would be nice if you gave it a thought before posting accusatory remarks. Frankly, I don't give a hoot what you think about me, and I won't kiss your as.s whether it was made in Poland, Russia or Africa.
Puzzler  
23 Oct 2007 /  #59
Your remarks are out of line, and your words ("saying they're Polish, who were as Polonophobic as the Nazis") are offensive

- Hold your horses, man. I have never said you are one of those guys. It's you who are assuming I have. Read my statement again, coolheadedly. And it's you who have ascribed paranoia to me - which actually is offensive, the more so as you can't back it up with any proof.

I don't give a hoot what you think about me, and I won't kiss your as.s

- I don't give a hoot whether you don't give a hoot what I think about you, nor have I given any rational reason for your assuming that I want you to kiss my frances.

If I were nasty, I'd say something else about it....

Cool down, mate.
;)
My best regards to your daughter. She's a lovely Polish girl.
daffy  
24 Oct 2007 /  #60
For a point of information.

The Irish government departments do infact deal in Polish where possible and required. In the local dept of social welfare (to get PPS numbers to work & claim benefits) signage in Polish is a prevalent as the signs in English.

whether or not it needs to become an official language - i think wait 20 yers is best - to see if integration is a long term effect or just a short term movement.

As Ireland & Poland are members of the EU, the respective gov't DO infact need to work in English, Polish, Irish as the case may be. (as English, Polish & Irish are all offical EU languages)

I agree with Puzzler that most poles here do not have the idea that Polish should be an ofical language her as it is not required as the state depts already provide translation for them if required and information is avail in polish already as it is in English and Irish.

If the Polish community truly wanted it so, it would be no problem to discuss the proposal as with all things in a democratic country & Union.

na razie!

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