Here comes the Anti-Immigration marches....

In Toronto, the city I live in, the number of immigrants is growing at about 3 times the rate of Canadian born citizens, in the next few years the number of immigrants in Toronto is supposed to rise above 50% of Toronto's population. It is evident when I walk down the street and barely hear a word of English, but people get used to it, we don't complain about it.

I understand the UK has a ridiculous amount of immigrants moving there, 'taking your jobs' but I am certain if anyone who was from the UK actually wanted these jobs they would be given priority over those who barely speak English?

Oh, I don't deny the need for action, MisterH. When people don't understand the full picture, they pick easy targets and what they feel is the source of the conflict.

The rat race seems to drive people to read 'lighter' options such as tabloids. During their rushed lunch breaks, they absorb the guff that is written and take it as gospel. I haven't read a newspaper for a long time.

The other problem is that innocent people are guilty by perceived association. That's what Lir was hitting at and I see it now. I'm not gonna be a target for attack because of the stupidity of others. I'll be mightily hacked off if so.

People may be "used to it", but are they happy about it ?

If the person that can barely speaks English goes for a job and can do it cheaper, then I guess there is no guarantee that an English person would get it.

One of the immigration issues here in Canada is that the great majority of newcomers settle in one of 3 major cities. Toronto, Vancouver or Montreal. Concentrated multicultural zones, but largely white european stock elsewhere. The "Majority" are now a visible "Minority" in some areas, and have been for the last couple of years.


Indiginous people have a variety of languages.

Regarding the strikes, I'm not convinced that their impact will be longterm. They'll be fed a few platitudes and moved on before too long.

Maybe if the staff of places like American Express, HSBC, Barclaycard, Lloyds TSB and all the other big players that employ lots of foreign workers here and have off-shore callcentres went on strike too, then we might start getting somewhere.

The people that are striking have representation in their unions. However the majority of people that might like to register their disquiet do not have such support and would be clearing their desks by lunchtime if they spoke out.

Yeah, just look at the nursing strikes in Britain. It needed a lot of them and with backing of some management figures before anyone really batted an eyelid.

The government just has to look inward and be prepared to point the finger at itself. Easier said than done. They just don't care enough about how mass immigration adversely impacts people's lives. 'Keep your hands off of my stack' seems to apply.

In Scotland, we have many such "I'm alright Jack' types. Bellends!!

Then they should be made to care (somehow).

Also, the strike organisers should be a bit more savvy and make sure that the footage that is being put across the news media has a decent proportion of non-white faces in the front row.

At the moment, I fear that there is a danger of it coming over as "British jobs for British (white) people" and if this is how others read it, then their message will be lost. They need to hammer home that it is British jobs for everyone that is British and born here and that colour has nothing to do with it.

Well, MisterH, you know as well as I do that many have gone through the 'proper' means of grievance redress. You know, the channels where you contact your MP, only to not get a response or a very inept one, littered with the language of prevarication.

Another important point here is not to become paranoid. Maintaining a sense of perspective is key for British workers. A rounded and balanced front against this problem is required.

What do you propose be done, MisterH?

youtube.com/watch?v=wJZzQJOuWJo&feature=related, The Polish Onslaught

The impact of competition in the UK is explored above.

There is nothing that can be done. As you rightly point out, I wrote to my MP and was and was basically told to bugger off and mind my own business.

Maybe that is the best approach ?


Interesting piece and it generates a lot of questions, not least the chap who was here illegally until Poland became part of the EU. Shouldn't the fact that he was here as an illegal immigrant still be something that is investigated ? Again, I guess the powers that be think "why bother?!" when it comes to such things.

I get the book chucked at me if I go three miles over the speed limit because I am an easy pinch. It's a shame the law is not applied to everyone.

It seems the winners are few when it comes to this level of immigration.

the killinghome protest has nothing to do with immigrants and all to do with migrant labour. totally different.

Illegal immigration should be investigated, of course. You know, many Poles would do themselves a favour by playing ball. As far as I can see, this has been the main obstacle to America not waivering the visa requirement. They have made a mockery of the immigration system by circumventing the requirements.

As for policing, well, the police pick easy targets. It made me angry that they targetted my mother for going a few mph too fast when there are far worse criminals out there.

That's a matter of opinion.

I see it as all part of the same issue.


It should be, but I don't think that it is and this constant enlarging of the EU just makes the job harder.

Still, John Reed made the case for refusing access to Bulgarians and Romanians. Surely that is a positive step. Then again, it throws up what I might call 'selective discrimination' against these countries. I didn't mean it as disrespectful to the abovementioned nations, just as a means of tightening control on immigration.

Some would say we have closed the barn door long after the horse has bolted.

But are the Wild Horses off to get some Brown Sugar??

They'd be exaggerating if they even said that!
We have not closed 'the barn door' in the slightest.

I agree with much of what Enoch Powell predicted.
This is not a Muslim country.
It is a Christian and Post-Christian secular state.

The 3rd Worlders who flood here are used to a standard of living that Brits haven't had to tolerate since before WW2. They lower the expectations of employers towards their employee's. Of landlords towards tennents.

They import illnesses that were eradicated decades ago. And they think we are inferior for our lack of belief in Allah.

Three generations it has taken to produce home grown suicide bombers and women who dress more strictly Islamic than their cousins on the streets of Pakistan.

They are also behind a huge majority of the heroin being imported and distributed in this country.

Whoa - do you have any actual facts and figures to back these claims up? It sounds as if you're blaming them for everything up to and including the sinking of the Titanic and the 9/11 attacks. The first two sentences you use are interesting beacuse they have two classic metaphors used by the far right to represent immigrants - the migrant as water and the migrant as disease (or disease vector). If you throw somthing in about animals, you'd have the hat trick.

As for believing British people to be inferior - So what if a country believes this? British business has these countries by the balls and you still want these people on their knees in front of you singing your praises? What is so important about getting 'respect' from people? Bit clingy aren't you?

Thats going to change - they are "thinking" of lifting the restrictions, and to be quite honest it was a bit of a farce, since they could enter as "self-employed" once again affecting skilled tradesmen - undercutting and undercutting has become way of life - 6 foreigners living together can afford this, an English man with a wife, 2 kids, mortgage and the rest of the outgoings, simply cannot!

I find your views rather disturbing. You're making it sound as though there isn't one "normal" person amongst them.

You know, youz used to be afraid that your country would turn Catholic with all the Irish.
The slogan used to be "HOME RULE IS ROME RULE!".


Are you sure you are not plagiarising and just changing it from Catholic Irish to Muslim Pakistanis?.


No surprise there.


You know as well as I do, that this was said about the Irish and all the other wonderful British people from far away lands.


I also find the views rather disturbing.
They're making it sound as though there isn't one "normal" person amongst You.

I know a lot of good people on here, refrain from posting arguments on such threads, just thought I would say it so not to be alluded to the fact that many people do not have Nazi minds.

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A tougher immigration policy is needed in Britain but you ought not to blame 'THEM' but look to your own leaders.
I even see people blaming and pointing the finger at 'THEM' for the credit crunch, Jeezz always a scape goat for the brainless.

Nicely turned around :-)


Except they would probably call it an "escaped goat" ;-)

The majority of Britain seems too apathetic to look to their leaders and the rest of us know it would probably be a waste of time anyway.

It will be interesting to see how immigration is handled during the next election.

What changed since you started this thread?.


This reminds me of the mob mentality and 'logic' behind the witch hunts.
Britain is in a recession, what happened? foreigners came here.
Foreigners weigh the same as ducks because they are made of wood, Burn the witches!.

She's a witch!, "The holy grail" by Monthy Python.

Shelley, you are right. Sometimes it's sufficient for the government to appear to be doing something. They leave people with the thought that they are doing something and then they sneakily do a U-turn.

How would they feel if they were replaced by immigrants who spoke fluent English? We know that can't happen but hypotheticals don't hurt.

I appreciate your concern (I'm concerned too about the potential for scapegoating and violence).

Nonetheless, do you think current immigration policy in the UK is well-formed?

Do you think there isn't enough immigration to the UK? (If not, how many hundreds of millions of people do you think Great Britain could support?)

Do you think the UK government is really acting in the best interests of either the citizenry _or_ immigrants?

Do you think current immigrant groups are assimilating at reasonable rates?
Or alternately do you think a society made up of dozens of different ethnic groups with no common language or cultural assumptions about the role of the citizen and government can function?

What do you think should be done (and how?)

It is YOUR government who must change your immigration policies.
But blaming Johnny Foreigner is shite talk, that is exactly what I am saying.

Recession is Not the fault of Johnny Foreigner and nor is Your government's immigration policy.
Or do you believe otherwise?.

Sean, you must have had a bad time of it here, not all Irish did, my friends father came here from Belfast in the early 70s, him and his wife are happily retired (early I may add) on the profits of the company he set up and worked hard to build up over the last 30 years, I don't actually have one friend that doesn't have Irish family over here and as far as I am aware none of them have ever been subject to abuse because of their nationality. I think your being very cute about all this, playing the Irish victim card, look at the Irish papers or talk to Irish friends, they've had enough too, my friends girlfriend is from Belfast, her family are sick of foreigners!


No, it is a farce and rules are not enforced.


We do have enough and we don't have the resources to accommodate more.


They don't care about either.


No, even (and I hate to say this) Polish people seem to have formed ghettos, their own shops, nights in bars, clubs etc, most of them do not speak an acceptable level of English, but having said that, they seem to just get on with it, England is just a stop gap and a place to earn money, nothing more, but most importantly the vast majority work and are law abiding.


The problem with this is the only people that lose their culture are the native English people as the immigrants have very little respect or willingness to learn and the more that come the more the English get pushed out, you see, flying the flag of my country is deemed either chavy or racist.

Don't worry though, Poland will be exactly the same in about 10 years time, if not sooner, they seem to be more mobile these days, day and age of cheap flights.

Well it's not my government (though my government also has a similar attitude toward immigration - as much as possible regardless of what the citizenry wants or needs)


No, recession is not the fault of immigrants. But any intelligent discussion of immigration has to realize that there are downsides to mass immigration regardless of economic climate.

I believe controlled immigration can be a good thing overall but uncontrolled immigration is a poor idea in a small densely populated country with no labor shortages. Add a lack of assimilation pressure and you've got a recipe for disaster.

And, in assessing future policy, the behavior of current/past immigrants is absolutely fair game.

But if your primary concern is that nobody criticize immigrants for any reason, then a productive conversation is unlikely to take place.

Not all foreigners do.
And like you are NOW saying, most people, yes even people from Pakistan and all over the world are hard working in your country.
They do not receive problems or create them, they are an integral part of Britain and get on with it.


The racist hatred you personally spew on this forum is not to be ignored or fogged off.
You are the type of people who give Johnny Foreigner a bad time, you ShellyS are part of the problem.
My point about Irish history in England is that it is repeating itself.
I have read things by you which have shown me you know what Irish people had to go through but you turn around and do the exact same thing, your double standards confuse me.

Do you know what I am talking about?
I will not talk down to you, you are smarter than that, I know.
I can't help but get the feeling there is something personal in your hatred.


Like bird's of a feather the racist brigade flock together.

I remember you said on here "I am racist, so what?.


That is exactly what I am not saying, thank you for completely miss understanding what I am saying.

Well, to be fair there certainly is no shortage of racist, chavish English folk. And I have sympathy for early Pakistani immigrants who were exposed to awful racism and were horrified at the dysfunctional lifestyles of many lower class English (with good reason).

Unfortunately the overall reaction (with many welcome exceptions) was to withdraw into tradition and extreme religious conservativism and to reject basic aspects of traditional British ideas of civil society (a reaction that has also become dysfunctional).

On the one hand, the melting pot model of immigration is dead (due to the nature of modern travel and media). On the other hand, no one has established a good working model to take its place. Multi-culturalism is a disaster as it decreases the level of societal trust (a necessary ingredient of a successful first world country).


Well, Poland has a couple of great blessings.
1. An esoteric language (I wonder if Irish people are starting to wish they'd kept Gaelic around as a discouragement to casual immigration). Everybody at least thinks they speak English (or can quickly learn enough to get by) that's one reason there's so much immigration to the UK from countries with no historic ties.

2. A poor (to non-existent) social safety net. Basically, a comprehensive social safety net and large scale immigration are incompatible. Even if Poland were obliged to extend benefits to foreigners, it's such a joke that no sane person would engage in benefit immigration. The immigrants that do come to Poland realize they need to be able to support themselves (and mostly do).

Poor Sean, the English gave him a bad time boo hoo! btw it's fobbed off not fogged off :)

As for Pakistanis, they have not assimilated into British life, their lives could not be more different they do not respect England and would love nothing more than to creat an Islamic state - they are pushing for Sharia law and pushing for Muslim faith schools, they are far from intigrated, very far and one doesn't have to be a racist to see this happening.


So you know a lot about what happened in the 1960s in the UK? I think you will find there was less racial tension back then, in comparison to now. There is also no shortage of middle class and rather upper class racism, my friends cousins went to public school and see nothing wrong with referring to black people as "nig nogs". Don't be fooled that racism is a lower class issue in the UK.


They had no intension of integrating into a British way of life, after 4 generations they are still wearing traditional asian dress (or at least the women do, it seems there is a different rule for the men)


It was a big lie, created by those who love multi-culturalism, to make everyone believe that europeans should open their arms and accept anything that is dropped on them.

A considerable amount of them do not speak English, do not think that language will be a problem, the 2nd generation born in Poland will learn Polish, as for the benefits, let us not forget where these people come from, that's not a problem either, something is better than nothing.