BEWARE when coming over UK

It’s nice that we can talk about the ‘place’ that Poland has in Europe, the history does indeed make for gripping and fascinating storytelling. For me Poland will be the success story of Europe in the next decade, there was always the will- and now there is the way.

Those that fear the Poles are fools and betray their inability to learn from the last 100 years of history- the Polish people are really going to make a beneficial difference to Europe and I am proud that I am part, if only in a small way, of the movement to support the task.

I don’t look through tinted glasses, I see the faults in everyone, myself most often I admit. But in my opinion the best thing that happened to the UK and the EU was having Poland join us- there will be upset along the way, and Poland has much to do as a country to achieve the shared objective, but by sharing the burden, with mutual respect for everyone’s contribution I know my children will live in a more open and free society.

The problem is Magic, Hitler needed to get boots on the ground, and that meant Seelöwe had to work and for that he needed not only Aerial supremacy but Naval supremacy too, which he never had.

2kt Rhine barges lumbering across the channel would have been easy targets for the destroyers and even if by some freak of nature the invasion had got a foothold, the beach heads would have been targeted mercilessly and resupply would have been virtually impossible by sea thanks to the RN's presence. In essence 260,000 Germans lost along with untold materiel.

The actual air war was a victory for the RAF and you cannot question the bravery of the pilots (including the Poles, Czechs, free French and the numerous others) and their skill but the real victory was the boost in Morale. It gave the British something to believe in after Dunkirk (end of the beginning etc etc) . it marked the first real defeat of the german forces and greatly shifted US public opinion, which at the time was somewhere around: 'they didn't think Britain had a hope in hell of surviving.' :)

If you ever get chance, watch Hitler's Britain if you want to see a recreation of a 'what if' Britain had been invaded. Scary stuff.

Actually, as an after thought. Have you ever seen Dark Blue World?

I went to see it at the cinemas when it came out. I had the cinema to myself. *shakes head* Of course, the screen next to mine was showing star wars, which was packed out.

A truly great film...

sorry but only a mere 10% or even less was made up of international pilots fighting for the RAF the rest was British.

If your saying polish pilots won the BOB you need mental attention. They couldnt defend their own country.

In one way you can blame Poland for not having an efficient country in the first place to put up a good fight against Germnay, even if they did lose so what, but horses versus Tanks........um yeh.

efficient military for their country sorry.

anyway im off.

Actually Mincer, after the invasion of Poland Britain sent the British Expeditionary Force [our rapid response force of the time, it only took us 6 months to find the battle] to the Franco- Belgian border and got it’s arse totally kicked by the Germans and had to run away back to our little island- an option not open to Poland juxtaposed between Germany and Russia. Oh and while we were at it we left a few 1000 French troops behind, our allies, to face the music.

In fact it was Russia who saved us, as Hitler pushed his Eastern Front, if he’d decided to focus on finishing off Britain historians agree he would have almost certainly succeeded because the British Empire was unprepared for anything but Naval supremacy in the theatre of war..

Erm, haha sorry but if we, Britian lsot then USSR would get its ass whipped, why because the fll front of hitlers army would be at moscows door step not half.

BOB was the first step to defeat for Hitler.

if we lsot hitler would had invaded in time to miss the russian winter. which rendered the tanks useless.

We out gunned the german sin fact, it was only because they went through the ardenne forest that they surprised us..................................................more luck than anything, strike 2

Hitler had no chance, his only CHANCE was boming supply ships ect.

Plus if France didnt just surrender........

and let the french face the msuic, hell no, we had no chocie but to take safety acros the channel, or surrender.......?

Mincer, you aren't very clever are you. You mock Poland for falling to Germany and ignore your countries involvement in it. Both Britain and France followed a policy of appeasement even though they both knew that Poland would be at risk from such a policy.

In March 1939 Britain officially pledged to protect Poland from German aggression, and then didn't bother- maybe if Britain [and France] had kept their word Poland wouldn't have fallen so easily to Germany- but we'll never know as Britain **** out and didn't keep its word.

Be proud of your heritage British Mincer

[Germany survived 1939] "only because approximately 110 French and English divisions in the West, which during the campaign on Poland were facing 25 German divisions, remained completely inactive."

General Alfred Jodl

Poland held out for 5 weeks, three weeks longer than was planed under the agreements reached between Britain, France, and Poland. Poland never surrendered to the might of Germany or the Soviets, it was overrun while its supposed allies stood and watched.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_betrayal

There's too much crap to catch up on. This mincer just vomits in almost every topic.

Pff. I knew you were Paul manser. What the hell happened to you? You were a completely different person in the other forum. I didn't mind you at all. Now you're here acting like a complete a**hole.

Why do you come here and talk sh*t about Poland? Did you get dumped by your girl? Go back to camp little boy.

I just read about your ex Aldona. I don't want to start slaggin you off because you do seem to be a level headed bloke....most of the time. Why this negative attitude all of a sudden?

pure hatred Fisz and anger, im actually being serious with you now.

I'm sure...but what do you expect to accomplish by coming here and posting all of this crap?

I actually just wanted to know what the punishment would be for the illegal act their doing, serious.

but.................anyway.

anyway as a last finale I did scrape enough dignity to post her some medication and info regarding her dental issue thats shes got as shes ina little pain..........................I obviously do care about her, i do have a soul lol. whatHM do is their concern now though and her fate from now on.

anyway lets call it a day yeh, id much rather open up a can of strongbow

Good shite there :)

Along with Tyskie and Lech ...................and whats it called argh cant remember the name wotek or something, sorry im no good at Polish spelling.

Polish do make good Beer.

I will admit I did have a good time out ther ein Poland. The poles really did care whether you was unhappy or not.

Had a bad day outt here once ect and the poles did a good job of cheering me up lol they bought this thing* from a pub that holded about core god knows 4 litres or soemthing in heihgt of pure beer. im sur euve come across it.

pump thing u do it urself ect

couldnt agree more SDub... my hope is that they can learn by the mistakes the more established members of the eu have made and follow a different path...

How much does the western EU powers give Poland anyway?

With respect Manser, you seem to have a strange view of how the EU works, who are the EU western powers? Nobody gives anyone anything directly except the EU, member states pay into the EU budget then, then the money is allocated as per the budget.

Due you mean which country contributes the most to the EU budget? If so it is Germany, then France, Italy, United Kingdom of Britain and Northern Ireland [Britain contributes 13% of the budget]. Poland ranks number 11 out of 25 states contributing to the EU budget, Ireland is number 15. I’ve taken into account the British rebate in those figures.

I don’t have up to date figures for Gross Domestic Product, but the UK’s is in the region of 2.5 times higher than Poland’s I would guess [an educated guess].

cheers for that welsh

What is your opinion about Bulgaria and Romania joining on 1st jan 2007?

To be honest I don’t have an educated, formulated, opinion on the matter. I think that Romanian’s will arrive in the UK [word on the street is they are already here] and that will continue to keep unskilled/ semi-skilled wages low [as in at or near the legal minimum wage]. Some Polish nationals I have spoken with are clearly worried that this might effect their employment prospects, but it’s my feeling that generally it will have little impact on them.

From a moral stand point I feel angry with the UK government for attempting to place restrictions on work for Romanians and Bulgarians when it did not place those restrictions on the Polish. I fear that it will force the new workers onto the grey market where they are at risk of being illegally exploited.

There’s no denying that people in the UK have struggled to come to terms with the influx of Polish workers, and it’s my fear that Romanian and Bulgarian workers forced to work illegally will give them [UK citizens] a stick to beat the Polish with.

I suppose in an ideal world I would have liked that Bulgaria and Romania weren’t joining for another 2 years, but that’s only from the view of an UK citizen- it would have been nice to have some time for the dust to settle I guess.

EU is expanding way too fast. god bless the fact that the UK has not joined the Euro as currency. God forbid the day Poland joins the euro too, 2010 I heard? this correct?

with 600 000 poles coming to the UK or more, the UK had no choice i feel to put a limit on the workers coming here.

I hear sooner. like 2008

Well it’s a bit like closing the gate after the horse has bolted I think. From January a Pole can come and work in the UK with no problem, but a Romanian cannot- and yet they are equal EU citizens in law?

Also Poles now have access previously denied to them to work in many other EU states, so we may find they all decamp to Spain leaving a massive manpower shortage and the government will have to do a massive U turn and tell the Romanians and Bulgarians they can come to the party after all.

I do wonder about the government’s ability to correctly manage immigration I’ll be honest. Until recently I was a member of the Labour Party, and I wasn’t the only one warning of a massive influx from Poland back in 2001, 3 years before it happened. And that isn’t because of any Polish sentiment, just an observation and analysis based on the available data back then. But the British economy was slowing, and we needed cheap workers, so nobody cared back then.

So I just got on with it, I lost my last job to a Slovakian and a Hungarian, my salary was enough to cover both of theirs- no employer is going to turn down a ‘buy one get one free’ offer are they? Luckily I could see what was coming so I chose 2 people and trained them so that when the axe fell it would be held by people I respected, people I knew would get the job done with integrity. They are still friends now, going to visit them this weekend and I’m sure we will remain friends for a very long time.

They didn’t steal my job, the brutal economics of a free market economy did

I lost my last job to a Slovakian and a Hungarian

ok thats just savage...ID be pissed.

What will the effects be with the Euro for Poland? I have a pretty dark picture in mind but what about what other ppl think?

It isn’t savage, I had enough cash, it wasn’t the end of the world, and I got to choose my replacements and made 2 good friends.

Can't wait for the Euro to come to the UK, in fact I tend to use the Euro on a daily basis, it's only when I try to actualy buy something in a shop with them I have a problem

Well poland joining the Euro currency cant be good. I prefer having a big wodd of PLN in my hands that Euros. :) call me a money freak if you like.

just nice to hold a fat wodd in ur hand :)

from british pounds to zloty that is.

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i couldnt imagine the Uk taking up the Euro. Everyone is against it. Anyway wouldnt the euro hike up prices? its as bad as it is in the UK.

It’s irrelevant, we can have Euros that have the Queen’s Head on them- I’m old enough to remember £/S/D [just], it’s not how many pieces of paper you hold in your hand, or what’s printed on them- all that matters is how much it is worth.

And the Euro is well on track to be the preferred currency not just within Europe but the world, Given London’s status as a premier money market switching to the Euro makes a lot of senses- but just like we sat and watched to see what happened back in 1939 we do so today.

Everything is traded on the international market in US Dollars, with the Euro fast catching up- but the average UK citizen is unaware of that.

Saying all that I agree with the UK government’s stance on integration into the Euro mechanism, but we will join it eventually that is for sure.

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I'm surprised that no-one has yet mentioned the fact that, at the ceasation of hostilities, Churchill tried to warn of the USSR communist ambitions. He didn't like or trust Stalin, and tried to prosecute the peace.

The UK was shattered by this time, and could do nothing without allied help.

It was Truman who allowed Europe to be carved up the way it was, and not the UK, but can we really blame anyone, after such devastation and loss of life?

People wanted peace, at almost any price.

Blame Chambalein, public enemy number 1

I wonder when.

I wish Freddy would get the quotes right. I didn't write what he quoted. That came from the pen of 'Saffron,' and not me!

Ever noticed the similarities between the 2 pound coin is and the 2 euro coin? Coincidence?

Britian will definitely have the euro one day and imho the sooner the better.

Then again, i've been here in Austria long enough now that I even think in €.. and it is such a hassle changing money when i want to go back home!! So maybe i'm biased.

The way I see it is: we are in the EU and if we're serious about membership, we can't just pick and choose the bits we like. We either get in and get fully behind the idea or we leave.

As for prices rising. I'm afraid that probably will happen, even if the politicians say it won't.
Can only speak for Austria, but the price rises have been happening ever since the Euro was introduced. More from unscrupulous shop owners than anything else. Tagging on 10 cent here, 20 cent there, just in order to round the prices up is easy and very temping. 3€ sounds so much better than 2.80€

mmm. time will tell.

There has been so much rubbish written under this heading, I almost lost the above quote in the barrage.

Something which is quite relevant is the lack of a proper UK constitution; even though we are part of the EU. Many people from other countries do not understand how it all works, which is possibly due to the fact that we in the UK don't know also.

Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that the BNP made massive in-roads on the UK political scene, and at least worked themselves into the position of holding the balance pf power. (They could never achieve anything more than that for the forseeable future)

Let's further assume that they wanted to stop migration and immigration, and even wished to send people home, it that applies.

How could they do this?

EU law and human rights would have a lot to say, but more importantly, the British Constitution (or lack of it) actually denies power to any one sector; whether it be the military, the police, parliamentary parties, the House of Lords, the Church or the Crown.

Because the monarchy is constituted the way it is, it must be faithful to all people, at the same time as upholding articles of faith. In other words, the monarchy must take into consideration all things spiritual and political. The monarch is technically the supreme Bishop in the Church of England, and the church has representation in the House of Lords, who hold a power which far exceeds their number.

Parliament must be formed with the approval of the Monarch, and as subjects and commoners, they are charged with upholding the institution of the Monarchy, with reference to the above spiritual dimension and the church.

Both the Police and the Miltary are crown organisations, who operate under the auspices of the civil authorities by permission, and not by right.

Parliament, as a commoner's legislature, must have its statutes approved by the upper House of Lords, who are appointed by the crown, but in consultation with the House of Commons (Commoners).

In practice, it means that no single interest group or political organisation can hold total power, and there are checks and balances in place which make this impossible; short of a complete revolution.

In addition to all this is a permanent civil-service, who run around trying to hold everything together, and who advise all parties on the merits or demerits of particular policies.

Now look at the rabble they call the BNP.....largely uneducated, inexperienced, inept and on the fringes of legality.

Of one thing I am sure, and that is the fact that the occasional erudite document carrying the BNP seal of approval, is very much the exception rather than the rule, and as such, it is a party which no right-minded civil-servant, lawyer, Lord or Monarch could ever take seriously.

The underbelly of British politics is very adept at dragging its heels, and they have a history of skullduggery which is quite impressive. It is not that long ago that a Monarch was brought down by the establishment, simply because his views did not find approval

with the institutions of state and parliament.

What chance the BNP?

They would be defeated even as they assumed the balance of power.