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Poland top overseas property hotspot


BubbaWoo 33 | 3,506  
10 Apr 2007 /  #1
a recent study conducted by property investment group Assetz places poland firmly at the top of property investment worldwide with a 165% total cash return in just the first quater of 2007

the study revealed capital gains of 33% were experienced by polish properties over the same period with growth linked to eu membership contributing significantly to the strong performance

Stuart Law, md of Assetz, announced that poland looks set to lead the way for emerging markets in 2007, with strong capital growth and excellent local demand fuelling the rise. property prices in warszawa remain amongst europes lowest and the continued support of eu funding and foreign investment is attracting an increasingly young and wealthy population.

summary of article found at mamdom
hello 22 | 890  
10 Apr 2007 /  #2
When such information is covered by media, it's a few years or more too late to take advantage of the "property hotspot." People who made most money from the Poland real estate bubble did it 10-15 ago. Now only scraps are left and those who originally made money spend them now on writing promotional articles to sell their scraps for the best price.

When the media write about "making money," those who did make money are now doing something else (something the same media will write about in a few years). This is how it goes in the business world.
OP BubbaWoo 33 | 3,506  
10 Apr 2007 /  #3
such a synic must have polish blood in him... and know very little about the polish real estate market :)

or indeed, real estate in general
szarlotka 8 | 2,206  
10 Apr 2007 /  #4
from the Poland real estate bubble did it 10-15 ago

Actually the best time to have bought it was when the negotiations for EU membership started in earnest and that wasn't 10-15 years ago! Don't forget how difficult it was to buy in then either. You can't argue that Poland is not a good market. Every friggin survey you can google will tell you that.
Frank 23 | 1,183  
10 Apr 2007 /  #5
Bubb...you tart....wot a put down....betcha hello ( or goodbye as it is now) presents himself toute suite at the nearest A&E.....:)
OP BubbaWoo 33 | 3,506  
10 Apr 2007 /  #6
didnt want to be rude but it was a bit wtf are you talking about...?
hello 22 | 890  
10 Apr 2007 /  #7
such a synic must have polish blood in him... and know very little about the polish real estate market

Sure, I'm Polish. I've been in the business for enough time to notice how it works. There are many such examples. The principle is simple - those who are the first in the business (or have the original idea), take the cream. They do not brag about how their business is great UNTIL they realize they can no longer make enough profit.

Think about this - if you found a gold mine in your private forest, would you tell media about it right after the discovery? No - what you would do is to start digging on your own or hire a private company to see the potential. If you find there is a lot of gold in the area, you buy more land from your neighbors (without telling them about gold, of course) and dig out all gold from the area. After months or years of research you conclude there is no more gold within hundreds of kilometers so you don't buy more land.

Now the advertising part begins. You tell the media the land in your area has plenty of gold and you have found gold worth millions and there are still billions to be found. Of course, you don't tell them you did a detailed research and only scraps of gold could still be found. But you have the proof the gold used to be there so people start buying off your land in the hopes they will find millions. The fool's gold rush begins.

This is how it works. The Polish property market is currently at this stage - the original gold miners now tell the crowd the millions can be made. But at the same time they are silently taking away their businesses to the places nobody knows gold could be found. The crowd will find out about those new places from the media, in several years.

It's called entrepreneurship.
OP BubbaWoo 33 | 3,506  
10 Apr 2007 /  #8
Sure, I'm Polish

yes... this is painfully obvious... please, dont explain to me how business works... patronising analogies serve no purpose but to further humiliate yourself... if indeed you had been in-the-business long enough to know how it works you wouldnt have made such a ridiculous statement in the first instance

nothing more to say
hello 22 | 890  
10 Apr 2007 /  #9
(fyi, I'm not posting also as "hullo" or whatever)

I'm not sure why you focus on my nationality and why you are upset with my statements. My analogy may be harsh, but - in my opinion - it is true in 99% of all business cases.
OP BubbaWoo 33 | 3,506  
10 Apr 2007 /  #10
i know you dont post as hullo :)

i focused on your nationality for 2 reasons; firstly, the synicism that seems to be inherent in polish and secondly, your approach to business...

the longer i spend *trying* to do business in poland the more i think to myself *guys, you just dont get it, do you?*... i meet so many foriegners over here that are really keen to do business in poland but really dont want to work with the polish... coz they just dont get it...

youre analogy was very simplistic - first year undergad business studies 2:2 stuff... sorry... its not my intention to offend, this is borne out of frustration of trying to work with poles who expect to get paid when i have had to hold myself back from telling them theyre fired...

and i really dont mean to offend, hello, sorry if i have
hello 22 | 890  
10 Apr 2007 /  #11
BubbaWoo,

I can assure you "I do get it." I know many (or most) Poles who live in Poland "don't get it." I've been living both in Poland and the US so I know the both sides. Most of those Poles who have lived abroad for at least a couple of years do get it. I myself find it very difficult to do business with Poles from Poland - for the same, exact reason you do.

You talk from an enterpreneour point of view and your analogies are true for you. But I'm talking about the buyer's point of view. I would be happy if as many Poles made as much money as possible, but they need to look at this from two perspectives. I'm sure there are still many Poland properties that have a great potential, but not of them have.

I would especially warn Poles who don't have money and think about taking a 30-40 year mortgage from buying a "property that as potential". Those who have money - they can take a risk and it could possibly bring them more money.
OP BubbaWoo 33 | 3,506  
10 Apr 2007 /  #12
i am fortunate enough to work with an organisation that allows me to mentor the UK's next generation of business people, many of them potential entrepreneurs... Dragon Den type scenario if that means anything to you...

You tell the media the land in your area has plenty of gold and you have found gold worth millions and there are still billions to be found. Of course, you don't tell them you did a detailed research and only scraps of gold could still be found. But you have the proof the gold used to be there so people start buying off your land in the hopes they will find millions.

if one of them presented me with such an analogy my first question would be... where are the ethics...? once the importance of ethical trading had been established i might then suggest a closer look at brand management... when punters discover the promised gold they have spent their life savings investing in doesnt exist then your name will be mud... your brand useless... a waste, no point, a futile activity... this is very much an example of what i experience here in poland... little understanding of the broarder picture...

I would especially warn Poles who don't have money and think about taking a 30-40 year mortgage from buying a "property that as potential".

for most, buying a property is a substantial investment, perhaps the largest of life. as with any substantial investment i would suggest doing the required home work prior to spending the money...

polocy boją się kredytow... fear... because they dont understand how to make it work for them yet... most of them just see it as a ticket to something they otherwise wouldnt have, without realising it comes at a price, and with responsibility...

if you do your home work, and get your sums right, then there is nothing to fear from a 30-40 year mortgage... in fact... wait a minute... if somebody is gonna lend me huge amounts of money at a reasonable rate of interest and not ask for it back for 30-40 years then thats actually quite a nice deal... thank you very much... and if i can juggle my finances so that i only invest a fraction of my costs myself... and get somebody else to pay off my loan... then yes... i am giggling my arse off all the way to the bank... and why ever not...? :)
hello 22 | 890  
10 Apr 2007 /  #13
The word "POTENTIAL" could take care of that. This property has great POTENTIAL - this is the slogan. Whoever says that, doesn't actually lie - the potential could be materialized tomorrow or in 50 years. Besides "the ethics" in business (especially seasonal like investing in a new EU country) is a cliche too.

then there is nothing to fear from a 30-40 year mortgage...

For sure, in long term it's better to own an apartment than to rent it. But the buyer should know that the appreciation of such apartment will go not much more than the inflation rate. So if a buyer thinks he buys a property today for 100K and in 10 years he will sell it for 200K, he is dead wrong (plus, he should deduct the inflation rate from what he "gained"). And this is what some sellers suggest to the buyer.
OP BubbaWoo 33 | 3,506  
10 Apr 2007 /  #14
Besides "the ethics" in business is a cliche too.

i really cant agree

For sure, in long term it's better to own an apartment than to rent it. But the buyer should know that the appreciation of such apartment will go not much more than the inflation rate. So if a buyer thinks he buys a property today for 100K and in 10 years he will sell it for 200K, he is dead wrong (plus, he should deduct the inflation rate from what he "gained"). And this is what some sellers suggest to the buyer.

not quite sure what you are saying here - in the short term i can take out a lengthy mortage on a property in need of renovation, renovate it, sell it and make a profit... maximum return on minimal investment...

in the longer term, more and more brits now view property as a more realistic pension investment than what the state or private plan could provide... appreciation of property can far outstrip inflation, both in the short term and long term... in much of europe... i realise things arent quite the same in america...
Giles  
11 Apr 2007 /  #15
"So if a buyer thinks he buys a property today for 100K and in 10 years he will sell it for 200K, he is dead wrong (plus, he should deduct the inflation rate from what he "gained"). And this is what some sellers suggest to the buyer."

er have to disagree, I brought a property just less than 3 years ago and it has tripled in price, and one last may that has doubled. So what the point?
sgrya1  
13 Apr 2008 /  #16
Can I offer some reading.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_estate_bubble

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_property_bubble

Unless salaries start on some increadible incline to match, it can't continue and there is achance the bubble will burst putting a lot of people into a bit of financial trouble.

As you say Hello, the buyer should know that the appreciation of such apartment will go not much more than the inflation rate. Something must correct. Salaries have risen but haven't matched the incredible rise in property values here.

Anyone in realestate will vehemently disagree with this of course.

My 2 grosha.
NieMota - | 30  
13 Apr 2008 /  #17
appreciation of property can far outstrip inflation, both in the short term and long term... in much of europe... i realise things arent quite the same in america...

Where are you - one year later ???
OP BubbaWoo 33 | 3,506  
13 Apr 2008 /  #18
the bubble will burst

the bubble is deflating

one year later ???

i started bailing out in the later half of last year - i have kept commercial rental property which, once finished, will (hopefully) produce a nice return and i have also kept a costal holiday property.
sgrya1  
13 Apr 2008 /  #19
the buyer should know that the appreciation of such apartment will go not much more than the inflation rate.

Of course this is in the long term as a running average. Sure, noones making more land and the population is increasing but 100 years ago a house would have cost much the same with regards in relation to a ratio of average salary today.

Other economic factors are also in play of course.

if you do your home work, and get your sums right, then there is nothing to fear from a 30-40 year mortgage

Dead right. You want to do your homework. If interest rates rise and property values fall you could be left very bankrupt. Worldwide economy is in a tender state at the moment.
Seanus 15 | 19,672  
13 Apr 2008 /  #20
What's a hotspot not?
OP BubbaWoo 33 | 3,506  
13 Apr 2008 /  #21
If interest rates rise and property values fall you could be left very bankrupt

yeah. critical question to ask yourself is can you achieve your monthly payments even if there is a significant rise in interest rates. if you are close to the line then things could become uncomfortable.

your monthly payments on a 30-40 yr mortgage are going to be lower than a 25-30 yr loan - even more so if your on an interest only plan. how many people nowadays will actually keep their property for 30-40 yrs - circumstances change and we sell up and move, upsize, downsize whatever.
sgrya1  
13 Apr 2008 /  #22
Very shrewd Bubba. Were you advertising the "Hotspot" as you were planning a bailout.
OP BubbaWoo 33 | 3,506  
13 Apr 2008 /  #23
what are you suggesting ;-)
NieMota - | 30  
13 Apr 2008 /  #24
how many people nowadays will actually keep their property for 30-40 yrs - circumstances change and we sell up and move,

To whom you will sell them ?
For how much money ?
Why they will buy ?

Best regards
nierozumiem 9 | 118  
14 Apr 2008 /  #25
To whom you will sell them ?

To me

For how much money ?

10 zł

Why they will buy ?

Because 10zł is a really good deal
DiscoPoloPole  
14 Apr 2008 /  #26
So, where were the ethics Bubba?
aligator_s - | 77  
14 Apr 2008 /  #27
Bubba

tried to send you a PM - the system is up the spout

try and contact me if you can
OP BubbaWoo 33 | 3,506  
14 Apr 2008 /  #28
So, where were the ethics Bubba?

which ethics are those then?
NieMota - | 30  
14 Apr 2008 /  #29
right ethics Bubba, right !!

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