People who bought in Katowice Oak teraces phase I and phase II

Hi Jeff, mail sent.

Are you boys Mad? (no offence Wroclaw Boy - I like reading your posts, don't always agree with your comments but your fit outs ..... ?)

PS boys - you may be new to the Polish market but Polish tenants are much more sofisticated than most people think. The pics on this thread show exactly what you can get for 500 PLN/sqm:

- cheap kitchen with a tiny sink, no lighting 'cept for that miserable B&Q bargain basement thing on the ceiling
- bathroom with tiles and fittings that really belong in a communist era flat. Not even tiled up to the top of the shower head!, now that is cheap.

If you want to refurb a 1970s apartment to rent out to students this might be the way to go. But this is Oak Terraces. What you will end up with is an even bigger debt and a flat that noone will want to rent because it reminds them of their grandparents place!!!

You'd be better to bite your lip and go with the Property Secrets service. At least you will get well known brands and a modern finish so you'll stand half a chance of finding decent tenants quickly.

See this page on Gratka to get an idea of who you are up against on the rental market:
dom.gratka.pl/mieszkania-do-wynajecia/lista/slaskie,katowice.html
.. and how you actually need to finish your apartments.

For your information that is an IKEA kitchen, with a large single basin sink. Materials are variable, this particular client chose that sink. The light is not one of the more expensive options around 35 PLN if my memory serves me. Clients can have fancy lights if they like, but lets keep in mind the goal, investment property for the rental market. Which lights do you use?


Perhaps the next time youre in Wroclaw you can show me what you would prefer.


Judging by your comments and superior choice of furniture and fittings it will be a damn site cheaper than yours.

Ohh Elaine every now and then you raise your ugly head to try and give us all a lesson on Polish property, please do us all a favour and dont bother. If you can really help help without calling out your old "one stop shop" friend Mamdom, help. If not STFU.


No, this is an investment property.


True but you cant rent a black finish unit.


Absolute crap, the fit outs we install have practicality and quality in mind. More than enough for even the fussiest tenant. Thats from the hourses mouth love.


You really have no idea what you are talking about. I doubt that any ininvestor of Oak terrecas is new to the property game. Im quite sure thay have some idea of the standard to which they fit out their property without advice from the likes of you.


Again you have no idea of the brands we use. Even if you did the type of cooker in an apartment is the last thing tenants consider as a deal braker. This is just a hate mail aimed at me personally.


Have you visited many grandparents houses/flats in Poland? I think not.

Next time you decide to ridicule my company please refrain from doing so. You have never been a customer (thank god) and have absolutely nothing on me except what you read in my posts here.

WB, this is interesting - I didn't know you were in the fit out business. Do you deal with high end Warsaw developments?

I bought my flats through WarsawProperties.pl and they provide a (presumably luxury) fit out service at 1500 Pnl/sqm.

1500 PLN/sq m sounds a little steep by any standards. Let's face it it's cheaper in London at the moment. The standard line, of course, is that if you spend any less you'll get substandard results and not be able to rent the place out to discerning, wealthy tenants - DISASTER! ;-)

I'm basically just interested in maximising my profits, not creating a masterpiece of interior decoration.

PM sent


yes, rediculous isnt it?

...IMHO
+ Will have a wealth of 1 and 2 bed apartments in Katowice finished to a very high standard to choose from, including scores coming on the market from O.T.

+ Are not in a position to afford to rent these high end apartments.
+ If they are able to afford such apartments they would opt to live in a very nice house in the suburbs, not in the centre of Katowice. Katowice is not Wroclaw, or Gdansk, or Krakow, or Warsaw. It is Katowice.

I think that the standard of Wroclaw Boy's finish is a serious upgrade from the many apartments that I have seen in Poland, and well represents what the typical tenant is able to afford, and would find attractive. But Eleanorconner does have a good point, O.T. is at the highest end of the Katowice market, and the finish should reflect that. I just don't believe that all of these high-end tenants exist.


Agreed. So your options are:
1.) A high-end finish, which can compete with other properties on the market, but will never produce a reasonable net yield on the property. The cost of this fit-out you may never recover.

2.) A mid-range finish like Wroclaw Boy's, which prospective tenants will pass over.
3.) Leave the apartment in black finish w/o tenants for a few years and hope that the sales market recovers.

With option 3 you will have a much better chance of selling a shell apartment, you won't dump any more cash into a property that you may never find a tenant for, and you won't have to spend all of the time and energy and resource over the next 5 years worrying about tenants, laws, mgmt agents, estate agents, solicitors, translators, utilities etc in a country that you don't live in or even speak the language.

Do the hard math on this. What is an honest vacancy rate? What are the chances that your tenant stops paying rent? (Do you even know how to evict a Polish tenant?), What will your tenant mgmt fees be? Building mgmt fees? How much will you pay an estate agent to find a tenant?

So maybe you finish the apartment and do make a monthly net yeild of £125, will this make much of a dent on your interest payments?

When you are in a hole, stop digging.

Good Luck

A voice of reason.

What are we talking about for rental rates in katowice anyway?

28 - 35 PLN/ m2

Argument coming!!! Yes it is an investment which means something you can rent out. Yes, you can upgrade and get more but not for 500 PLN/m2


Yes your fit outs are cheaper than the ones I have had done, and it shows. I'm not saying your flats don't rent out but the point is "investment". Here are my maths:

Buy a 40 sqm apartment and have a cheapy fit out for 500 PLN per sqm. You should save 16,000-20,000 PLN. But you loose in three places:

1) Longer initial void period - as mentioned above "prospective tenants pass it over". Say it takes 4 months to rent - loss of rent 4x3,000 = 12,000 PLN

2) Lower rent - you will rent but not for as much as your neighbours. Say 500 PLN per month less. Over two years - 24x500 = 12,000 PLN.

3) Lower resale - any modern Pole looking to buy in Oak Terraces is going to take one look at a cheap fit out and know they need to rip it all out. Loss - who knows?


I actually said they should bite their lip and use the PS fitters. Read, then blurt!


If you start loosing an argument, start swearing. That will prove you are right.


The other one has bells on it! Seriously


When there is little choice around I agree. But there will be loads of apartments on the market at Oak Terraces. If brand were not important why do Polish agents bang on about Bosch this and Kolo that in their descriptions?


Now it's getting sad. I don't even know you!! OK I was wrong to say noone will rent it. The fit out photo's you show will rent to someone - there is a tenant for anything but the monthly price won't be the same.


Actually yes because I bought two ex-commy flats this year and visited about 40 in the process. Most with retired people living there and most with the kind of bathroom you have. Ideal for renting out to students - which I have done.


Nope! If you come on a Forum to advertise your company be prepared for someone else to give you critical feedback on it and advise others who are less experienced.

But it's not ridicule Wroclaw Boy. The fit out you showed is for students or the like. This thread is about investment apartments in a development aimed at young professionals.


If you have a business why not keep polite and professional? Who knows I might want such a fit out one day (just not in Oak Terrace), I could have been your customer and you could have earnt something out of it. But this kind of childish emotional outburst tells us all more about you and your business than I could have ever done. Perhaps that is the one positive side to it.


He actually said:

You forgot about the light on the Extractor fan Einstein.


This thread is about investors grouping together during tough times in order to maximise their buying potential as a Syndicate. The pics I posted are from one fit-out which actually cost the owner less than 500 PLN/m2. Its a starting price, we too can install more expensive fixtures and fittings you know, try thinking out side the box Elean.


I now you did, but I also know that you are a mamdom faithful. I know Mamdom's prices are over inflated, they are essentially a property portal with contacts within the industry. They are a middle man bridging the gap between foreign investor and fit out company, I dont know the specifics but I would imagine their cut is around the 30% mark. The PS fitters will be of a similar nature so why pay more?






I rest my case. Im sorry you paid over the top prices for your fit outs.

Brilliant!

I think we have hijacked the thread and everyone else left long ago - like two old gits in the corner of the bar bickering long after closing time while only the landlady (Mrs Bandwidth) wishes we would leave.


This is actually a serious point and one I looked into over a year ago. Mamdom, Keen Property and JM Interiors all employ their own fitters. They don't contract out and simply skim a margin so I think, Wrocław Boy, you made that bit up!

BUT you do pay them a margin - to find good labour, materials and project manage things for you.


As an FA if I had a client running this type of business I would be advising them to make a minimum of 30% margin to run a viable business which covers overheads, turns in a sensible profit and allows for investment in the future. Ideally 40%.

I think the bottom line is this:
Keen Property - c. 2,000 zl/m2+ but includes lots of bells and whistles. Cheaper if done as part of a PS deal.
Mamdom, JM, Flats Poland, etc - 1,000 to 2,000 zl/m2 depending on the level of fit
JW Construction (the developers) - c. 1,000 zl/m2+ when you include a kitchen, lights and blinds and book the fit when you reserve the flat.

Wrocław Boy - 500 zl/m2

Now this is not just cheaper, it is suspiciously cheap. It must mean:
a) You are the only honest lad in the industry and everyone else, developers included, are minting it.
b) You are using mindboggingly cheap materials and labour so there is a quality issue and the property ends up looking kak - ref the photo's that started all this.

c) You are not very good at running a business and you are not making a proper margin. So people should use you quickly before you go bust!


Now you are a journalist as well(!) with selected quoting. But if you find something good and it works - shout about it. I've had a long relationship with Mamdom now and they are a professional outfit in a sea of incompetence BUT with each fit out I continue to get several quotes. Never get lazy and assume everything will remain cosy. Sometimes they are a little more expensive, sometimes a little cheaper, but so far always in the ballpark so not worth taking the risk in changing.


Many thanks. But if "overpaid" means short void periods, good yields and properties agents say will sell well I look forward to "overpaying" some more!

BTW - Thank you for your PM:
"Do you honestly think I gain any business from the Forum, im mostly here to argue with snotty cows like you. let me guess: divorced - bitter, middle aged woman."

But be a man and post it on the Forum, not in my mail box. For the record - single, bitter or Guiness (don't mind), mid thirties.

Anyhows it's the party season so I doubt I will be back on line before the bells. Have a great Christmas Wrocław Boy and anyone else left lingering on this thread. I look forward to more banter in 2009. Last one out switch off the lights..........

Wait, wait, wait.. one last question! I'm curious to know what motivated you all to invest in a third tier city like Katowice.

I can't say Katowice was a place I'd actually heard of. What was the economic rationale? A big new Nokia factory? Projected inward migration? What?

Dont lie Elean this pasted off the mamdom website:

Costs. Classic Line starts from just 750 PLN per square meter with discounts for multiple units in the same development available for fit out at the same time. See our Shell Fit Out Price Guide for more information.

link here folks: interiorfit.mamdom.com/shellfitoutsforpoland.php

The most expensive fit out starts at 910 PLN / m2. Whos making things up now? or are you really that bigger mug?


So your suggesting the mamdom fitters are on the Mamdom payroll. More likely they are a seperate company that are subcontracted in which is exactly what i stated. If you went direct to the fitters you would make a saving of around 30%. Thus taking the actual amount for a classic line fit out to nearer the 500 PLN / m2 mark.

Merry Christmas to you aswell.

Hey Elean the Mamdom eco line "cheapest option" starts at 590 PLN / m2.

interiorfit.mamdom.com/shellfitout_urbanlife-ecoline.php

If the "Lux" fit out is 910 PLN / m2 how much did you pay for yours?

They saw you coming love. Another foreigner taken to the cleaners.

hee hee.

fair play to you london chick

Eleanoroconner and Wroclaw Boy are making this an interesting thread, they battle it out and the People who bought in Katowice Oak teraces are watching as the price goes down, class.

But Eleanoroconner is not saying that Wroclaw Boy's prices are bad, she is saying that they are not to the standard that she would do them.

I live and work here in Poland and what Wroclaw Boy is offering is exactly what are in the photos.
I don't think anyone can say that it is over priced?.
And if you want to pay more, I am sure youz can do a deal.
The important thing is to get them let out asap.

Having looked at the eco range from mamdom, you would need to be a madman to install the eco range, the other ranges look to be a decent quality. what everyone needs to be careful about is what exactly you are getting for your money. we have ten apartment in oak terraces with one fitted out and we are starting with the remainder when we get the keys which is probably next week. we have done some intensive work (research) with regards the fit out and here are our prices for employing our own guys and buying our own materials. this is to rent, not for resale as a lot of the prices that you lot are all talking about are for just resale only, which tends to be a lot less thaN for rent as kitchens wardrobes and other items are not usually priced for.

For a 35m sq apartment the labour costs is £2,800.00 and the material cost is £5,700.00
giving a total of £8,500.00.
we feel that this price is expensive enough and we were shocked at the price of some of the materials in Katowice. we travelled further outside katowice in the hope to get cheaper materials. we still had to keep in mind that the materials used had to be expensive looking. we are actually thinking of importing all our materials and furniture from Ireland this could save us a few more pound, especially if we do it in bulk.

we must remember that oak terrace is probably the best location and best looking apartments in Katowice so when fitting out these apartments we must try as best we can to ensure that the interiors of the apartment are designed and fitted to a good to excellant quality, to keep the standards of the development at the higher range.

i was on the web site of zielinska.com and they seem to do a good design.
we will continue to design our own apartment and finish them to a high standard.
remember this is an investment, we are all hoping to make a few pounds, so why scrimp on the design and quality of materials used.

in the bigger picture an extra few thousand pounds in order to make tens of thousands of pounds , is nothing,,,and let me tell you we will make it in oak terrace, just sit and do not panick, get your places fitted out and get them rented, and dont be afraid to take a slight short fall to do so. eventually when the buildings are completed this will be the place to live in. we will post a few pictures of our apartment on our web site.

Hey Elean the Mamdom eco line "cheapest option" starts at 590 PLN / m2,,,,quote...
did you have a look at it, hopefully dark glasses are provided
Yes us silly foreigners we havent a clue and are always taken to the cleaners, does that mean Wroclaw that your fellow polish country men are thieves. good luck everyone and our investment in oak terrace, no matter how much we spend on fit out, will be fruitful in about 5 years time.

ash, i come from a town in N.Ireland and based on tiers it would be last when it comes to ranking... over the last 10 years the property prices grew 580% yes 580. so in investing you dont have to go to main tier cities,,, i am not from poland but i do know that the people from katowice have always been and probably always will be good hard working self sufficient people. Katowice is an up and coming place, its not too far from krakow, there is a new motorway from Germany to Ukraine being constructed.Within 600 kilometres of Katowice are the capital cities of six countries: Berlin, Vienna, Prague, Bratislava, Budapest and Warsaw. Katowice lies in the centre of the largest conurbation in Poland and is one of the largest in the European Union, numbering at about 3.5 million.

Katowice is also part of a megalopolis of over 7 million inhabitants covering Cracow, Katowice and Ostrava regions. The unemployment rate in Katowice is one of the lowest in Poland, at 2% (in 2008), Silesia and especially Katowice is one of major business centres of Poland, so hopefully that givesd you some idea of why i at least invested there

Margaret - if you have a ten year plan then yes your reasoning is rock solid. One thing that would concern me is liquidity; you will of course find it harder to sell at any point between now and the property realising its full potential if you really needed to.

Margaret - you are a clever and canny lass and an investor after my own heart! If you haven't read her posts yet scroll up!! - this is a wise woman talking!

Now I've been doing some digging around in my papers to get some clarity for here so first:


This is the price for a resale fit (as it says on the website) which means no kitchen, fitted cupboards, etc. The eco for rental starts from 850 PLN but obviously the bigger your pad, the lower the price per square meter and generally Mamdom is 1,000 to 2,000 p/sqm for the classic and lux from the quotes I have received which is what you should be looking at for Oak Terraces.

Difference in Resale and Rental fit out is at:
interiorfit.mamdom.com/shellfitout_priceguide.php

But I've found my quotes and bills for last year to compare with margaret's pricing of:


Say the exchange rate is 4.5 so Margaret sorted out her own fit out for 38,250 PLN. My bill from Mamdom for a 40 sqm apartment was 35,600 PLN for materials and labour using their classic line and for rental (fitted cupboards and kitchens included) - so around the same as Margaret. Their project management fee (which has been seperately stated on each quote was) 29,000 PLN - total 1,680 PLN/m2- hold that thought.

For my 98 sqm apartment (also classic line) the materials and labour were 68,000 PLN and project management charge of 36,500 PLN - total 1,066 PLN/m2

For my 63 sqm apartment I got together with two other buyers and so we got the Mamdom multi-discount(the more of you there are, the bigger this gets). Materials and labour 43,000 PLN, project management charge 21,000 PLN - total 1,015 PLN/m2

These were all in the ballpark of other quotes but the obvious lesson is to try and get together with others and not too much difficulty there with Oak Terrace.

Now like with anything else in life if you do it yourself it will be cheaper. Margaret has the connections to organise the labour and the time to go to Poland herself and hunt down materials. You could go even cheaper and learn to tile and plumb saving you the labour costs!

I don't so I am happy to pay the likes of Mamdom to do the legwork for me. You can call me a muggins but I also employ an accountant to do my books, a cleaner to cope with the tip I call home, a mechanic to repair my car, and so on and so on. I spend the free time it creates earning doing something I know something about and having a life. From the tone of Margarets posts I suspect she is not new to the developing game so her route is more obvious.

I also pay lettings agents in the UK to manage my properties here. I could do it myself but I have better things to do than flaffing around when a washing machine goes up the swanny in one of my flats. So by paying them I am now a 'home citizen being taken to the cleaners'! Oh the service industry .. how it takes money from all us muppets!

But back to the Polish property - you don't truly 'save' all the project fee by doing it yourself. A couple of return flights, hotels, car hire, meals, time off work or lost holiday time and your soon eating in to your 'savings'. Then there is a long term cost - these expenses cannot be deducted from your rental or resale income so you will also get a higher tax bill.

Margaret was prepared to go through the strain of driving here and there looking for materials, dealing with the god awful customer service (which I have had a brush with), managing the labour, flaffing around designing a kitchen and figuring out which colour scheme would work best for a rental market you don't know about. If you can do it, you will 'save' something.

Finally to reply to a few quotes:


Yes, spot on, and god forbid it's going to be another link to guess who but this is general useful info (no really!):
interiorfit.mamdom.com/whattowatchoutfor.php


Absolutely. They are not for Oak Terraces and the like


That's right, Mamdom fitters are on the Mamdom payroll, not contracted out companies. Same was true of Keen Properties a year ago, not checked recently.


I thought they had left the building weeks ago!!!


But, but, but - forgot to mention this:

I would be very happy with Wroclaw Boys finish on a 1970s build or bottom end student type property. However there is one other thing to add to Margaret's comment. She said it's important to know what you are getting.

It is also important to know who you are dealing with. The outbursts from WB in this thread would make me think twice. I want to deal with a professional company, not someone who goes off the deep end at criticism.

Can you imagine the snagging? ...
"This doesn't look right"
"Your just saying that because you hate me! You don't know what your talking about! Don't ridicule my company"

Sorry WB but if this thread is anything to go by I wouldn't risk it...

It's no offence to you, and I know you are about to come back with a knife between your teeth, but if this forum is anything to go by you do what might be good work a great disservice. Ultimately where I might have used you in the future I hesitate because of your defensive, rather than constructive nature. Seen it in Poland too many times.

But as you have said in previous posts you don't want my business so no lost sleep for you there!

eleanor, yes you are right, there is not much point flaffing around when you dont know what your doing, but fortunately our time spent is within our job context and hopefully will be rewarded when we continue to expand into the polish market. Our apartments are our polish pilot scheme and will form part of our portfolio.

we are not actually intending to get into the fit out market like mamdom, but more the design end of things, but who knows. thanks for your help with all your comments as they have let us know we are heading in the right direction.

I found my "back of a fag packet calculations" today from a couple of years back when I was working out how much it would cost me to do the fit out myself. I've done some updating on the costs so stand back for the math!

Flights
Got to get there! 300 PLN for an easyjet return flight if you book well in advance. One trip at the beginning and hopefully no others until the end.

300 x 2 = 600 PLN

Accommodation and Meals
I reckoned on 10 days in all, 7 at the beginning and 3 at the end to choose, buy and get materials. A hotel like the Camponile is about 170 PLN a night and you'll need to eat out noon and night which would be about 80 PLN per day.

10 days at 250 PLN per day - 2,500 PLN

Car Hire
As Margaret mentioned there'll be driving involved to find the stuff and you'll need an estate car just incase you need to take it from the shop yourself. Lets take a Ford Focus which will be about 180 per day for 7 days. We'll need petrol - maybe 200 PLN.

180 x 7 = 1260 + 200 = 1460

Incidentals
There will always be other costs - airport parking, a bottle of wine to keep you sane, etc. Rule of thumb would be 10%.
4,560 x 10% = 450 (to keep things straightforward).

So far the tab is 5,000 PLN but now there is an cost for further down the road.
Tax
You can't take any of the above expenses off your rental income even though you had to spend them because of the property so you will need to pay about 20% tax on money you haven't really earnt from your rent.

5,000 x 20% = 1,000 PLN

Materials and Labour
No matter what you do you are not going to buy at the same terms as a full time fit out company - they're probably in bed with the manufacturer or the wholesaler. In Margarets case above she pad 1,085 per square meter. I paid 875 per sqm for materials and labour. Difference of 210 but to keep things simple and be conservative we'll say an average punter will pay 200 PLN per sqm more than the pro's and an average apartment is 50 sqm.

50 x 200 = 10,000 PLN

Lost Rent
While your banging your head against a brick wall in a shop a fit out company is already working. We'll assume it takes you two weeks longer than the pro's (and I believe that to be very conservative) and your apartment would rent for 2,000 PLN per month which is low end.

2,000 / 2 (half the month) = 1,000 PLN

So the tab so far is 17,000 PLN for the tangables. You can plug your own figures in - save a bit by bedding down in a hostel with the backpackers or surviving on kebabs or you can pay a bit more staying in a more upmarket hotel and eating Sushi!

For a 50 sqm apartment a project management fee from the likes of Mamdom or Keen (et al.) is going to be about 30,000 PLN. So from Wroclaw Boys point of view I'm being "taken to the cleaners to the tune of 13,000". If you were doing this with, say two others you could divide the costs but then the Mamdom fee would be lower as well so it works out about the same.

Now come the intangables.
Labour - this is hard to find in the UK, let alone in a foreign land so some of what you are paying for is the fit out companies knowledge in this area.

Time - if you can value your time it's quick to work out. I'm self employed and if I'm not here I'm not earning. On this measure alone I would be worse off if I spent my time trying to sort out the fit out. If your rich, don't need to work and don't have anything else to do the value of your time is zero!

Stress - things go wrong in life and with building work. Value peace of mind however you want - its why I pay lettings agents in the UK to give me Property Management.

Design - where is that fine balance between "bland" and "neutral"? I'm not a designer so I don't know. A good fit out company who knows the local market does and so you pay to some extent for this skill and knowledge. If you get it wrong your property will have longer void periods which looses rent - that's a cost for down the road but a very real one

Opportunity Cost - if your flaffing around in a shop your not looking for your next investment. I spend about half my holidays each year sniffing around the edges of Polish cities for non-descript new developments where I can pick up a good buy-to-let deal. The other half is actually my holiday and we all need that so by trying to do a fit out myself I might be loosing out on getting my money into something that will give me a return.

This, I have to say, is very different to Margarets situation. For her these early "losses" are part of a learning experience because she will be doing this over and over again in the future. In her case its an investment and if you, like Margaret and I, are still expanding your Polish property portfolio while everyone alse in running around like startled chickens in a farm yard, and you have the time and resource, it's worth thinking about.

You have to make your own cost calculations to see how it would work out for you but it's important to remember what you are really "saving". Don't be like the muppet who drives to the next town to save 2p per litre on unleaded!!!!

wow that was a long one elenor, how much did you lose composing that,maybe people like spending time doing it all themselves, and get a kick out of saying, i done the lot and then only profit say 15,000 euros as oppose to 20,000 euros and the five thousand was spent on self education and fun, go on would you, here you are educated by the way and probably loaded so fair play to you,,,and heres us thinking scottish people were tight lol lol lol lol lol


elenor me old girl , are you contradicting yourself, or have i read you wrong, thought you were running down people who went to do the work themselves. maybe not, go on give us your reply, seeing you have loads of time to do so because you are also a lazy investor

Ive only got one thing to say to you: what part of we too can install expensive 1500 PLN / m2 fittings do you NOT understand?

Elenor works for Mandom...

Fair point. But there are two types of "doing it yourself". Homework you can do on the net or by 'phone which takes very little time and tramping around shops trying to find tiles in a foreign country.

My point was many PS says "Buy on this development" and the investors say "alright then". PS say "use rednet as your agent" and the investors say "alright then". Rednet say "use Keen to fit your property out" and the investors say "alright then" without ever doing any of their own homework to see if any of the above is actually a good idea.

I had a look at the PS forum the other day. Lots of people moaning about how they hadn't made any money - now where's the "secret" in that?


Hoorah WB! At last! I don't think we would ever have had this argument if you had looked at Oak Terrace, understood it and proposed a sensible finish at a sensible price.

But 1500 is not expensive. A flat that won't rent or sell is expensive. A fit out which needs rework in the first 24 months is expensive.



I think you're saying I am obsessing about this. Thank you for the slap in the face. 'nuff said.

Does that price include furniture etc...
i.e. completely finished ready to let out?.

She's saying im too cheap, thats a first. BTW dont forget this is Katowice were talking about here not the business district in Warsaw.


Look youre a foreigner, foreigners are charged way over the top as their options are limited. Can you imagine Poles paying 1500 PLN / m2, for the same service you had? not in a million years love. If youre going to act like a child i'll talk to you like one.


Shes convinced she has to pay loads of money for fit outs or her apartment wont rent or sell.

Here are some pics of one of the more expensive fit outs we covered last year, we charged 850 PLN / m2. 55 m2 apartment.

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  IMG_0258.JPG
  
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  IMG_0271.JPG
  
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  IMG_0276.JPG
  

1500Zloty is too much even for Oak teraces but it is the going rate for foreigners.
Some posters try too hard to justify the price they paid.

halo all

In last week I said goodbye to rednet. I have notice that a lot of my cusotmers are here. if you have not heard from me please contact me.

Ps also blocked my login in PS forum :) what they are affraid of? good service from me?

Mortgage Advicor

Daniel,

Sad to hear your going - you are the only one who replied to mails. From SusanC - does this mean that Rednet are going under or am I over reacting? There is also no word from Mikolaj?

Are you still acting as a mortgage advisor?

Susan

halo Susan
thank you for a good word from you.
at the moment Mikolaj was moved to developer to sell units and he is overloaded so he is not able to check even e-mail.
there is only one person who left in rednet finance and i hope that you have been informed that I left the job and they gave you support with the loan.

At the moment I am working as Independent Mortgage Advisor - free lancer
kind regards
Daniel

halo SusanC

how things move on with your loan? everything is fine. I hope rednet arranged for you a good deal

regards
Daniel