Political purges in Polish politics

The current hunt for communist era collaborators, which is being championed by a hardline catholic right wing government is distracting Poland and its people from concentrating on the future. It smack of Macarthyism in 1950's USA.

I believe it is inherently self destructive.
If South Africa was able to open a truth and recocilliation forum, and if the UK and NI were able through the good friday agreement to release former terrorist. Why is Poland not able to do the same.

Is it not a snide manor of doing away with potential political rivals?

I think the Polish government is a very dangerous entity, staffed by out spoken racists, anti-semites, homophobes, virulent nationalists and hardline catholics.

Hardly men suitable for a nation trying to grow into liberal Europe.

Do people think this government will survive the next election and why didn't the P.O win last time.

Oh Giles, I've noticed your topics are always very political based and difficult to explain.
In my opinion (i used to lived in poland for 30 yrs) a "hardline catholic right wing government" came from "hardline catholic right wing citizens" Just think like that. Lots of them "HCRW - hardline catholic right wing citizens" still can go to ballots and express them ancient attitude to the future of Poland.

I do believe in God but i just couldn't stand this what may be called a "Catholic fundamentalism" in Poland. That was one of the reasons why a moved to UK. I'm not trying to bullshi**ing all of you. I was so annoyed... ehh this is a base for different discusion.

Thanks Triptic, for such a relevant answer. I'm flattered you notice what I post and pleased to have a sensible response. Yes true my posts are often politically orientated, I suppose given I'm a PPE graduate thats par for the course.

I don't support ducks in every case, but this thing is OK and all these "defenders of human rights" should get into their brain that Poland is actually the last one country of new EU/NATO members, which haven't made decommunization process and for example Germany after unification had much more restricted anti-commie laws than these in Poland now and I don't remember the media screaming that It was any "witch huntaing".

Another real problem in Poland is an attitude to the political "main stream". After Berlin Wall fell down political options in Poland were wavering between left and right winged orientation. Always was "far too left" or "far too right" (now is far too right) Polish government and polish electors, they always have a problem balancing a decent way :/

I think its the fact that the government is a mixture, or far right Politicians, Ultra-catholics and just the plain Freaky (the Twins), who are searching to de-communize Poland. Somehow, I imagine the PO would try a different angle. Anyhow, its all a bit bloody late for de-comming no?

Surely concentrating on integrating with Europe is more important.
Infact I think its messed up.

The other thing that bothers me is the influence that the Church seems to have in politics. This is just plain wrong. Even the French and the Italian which are both catholic countries understand the importance of separating church and state.

I think that you are being too harsh for them with your opinion, Giles. PIS being racist, anti-Semitic? Never heard about it. Unless you are talking more about the League of Polish Families ( I really love that name :) ). Still, they won't be around after the next elections, and their parliamentary period made them definitely less extreme.

Well, Israelits are still searching nazi criminals...

That takes time in all countries with a change of rule/gov't

Look at south africa, germany, india, ireland. It took many, many years before very central/liberal ideals came into popularity, Poland will find the middle ground (centre left, centre, centre right) as most democratically established countries do. :)

Its a good topic Giles

Giles uses the following terms re Polish government and it's attempts to clean up Polish politics of the communist mafia: 'a hardline catholic right wing government,' (would you explain why do you call them so?), '[i]t [ie. attempts to expose comunist mafiosos - P.]smack of Macarthyism in 1950's USA' (can you give evidence odf that?), 'it [ie. lustration] is inherently self destructive' (why? prove your point), 'a snide manor' (why? any proof?), 'the Polish government is a very dangerous entity, staffed by out spoken racists, anti-semites, homophobes, virulent nationalists and hardline catholics' (and any proof of this?), 'hardly men suitable for a nation tryig to grow into liberal Europe' (why? What do you mean by 'liberal Europe'? Is such Europe good? If yes, why?)

:)

Ok.
Roman Giertych comes from a prominent family of Polish politicians, being a son of Maciej Giertych and a grandson of Jędrzej Giertych.

According to his brother (holding a Ph.D. himself), he was a young bookworm who devoured dozens of books, especially on history. He excelled in history throughout his school years while his grades in other subjects remained average. His teacher of biology recalls him as militant and questioning the validity of the theory of evolution; a stance that he carried away from his family home, especially his creationist father Maciej Giertych (a Ph.D. in forest genetics).

Anyone who openly professes to believe in the creationist theory, is not fit for government. Secondly he is a documented racist, homophobe and anti-semite.
And he's the EDUCATION MINISTER.....help

Jarosław KaczyńskiOn October 1, 2006 Jarosław Kaczyński, at a pro-government rally in Gdańsk Shipyard, compared the opposition to ZOMO, a paramilitary riot police unit during the communist period.[8]

The same month, Poland's second-most important newspaper, Rzeczpospolita, published documents – some that were leaked – from the files of the former Polish Secret Service (at the time headed by Kaczynski's political opponents) that discussed then dissident Kaczyński's sexuality due to fact of his single status. Operatives were to determine if he had homosexual orientation, and try to spread such rumours; the information was part of wider campaign by so-called "Lesiak Group" aimed at destroying opposition movement in the early 90s[9]. Like his brother, Kaczyński uses strong anti-homosexual rhetoric, making statements like "homosexuals who are involved in homosexual propaganda should not be teachers".

Well it would explain the purges of the secret service.

Lech Kaczyński

On the 20 February 2007, while on a state visit to the Republic of Ireland, Kaczynski said that the human race ‘‘would disappear if homosexuality was freely promoted’’. Kaczynski also revealed, during a debate at the Forum on Europe in Dublin, that he opposed homosexuality being ‘‘treated as one of several choices’’. The comments generated scandal in Ireland amongst the media, general public and GLBT coomunity. Senator David Norris, a key figure in securing the decriminalisation of homosexuality in Ireland in 1993, said the remarks were ‘‘distempered, ignorant, unsophisticated attitudes". TD Joan Burton, a finance spokesperson with the Irish Labour Party, said the comments were ‘‘a pity’’ given people’s efforts to ‘‘eliminate gross and crass discrimination’’. (Homosexuality has never been a criminal offence in Poland; many notable figures in Poland were publicly known as homosexuals, therefore this group of people has never been perceived as oppressed minority by public opinion in Poland. The remarks of Kaczynski show his lack of ability to tactfully handle cultural differences rather then discrimination attempts.)

Andrzej Lepper

has been charged with criminal offenses, including assault, blocking roads and dumping grain on railroad tracks in the course of anti-government demonstrations (The New York Times, 2006).[1] Lepper faces criminal charges for slander and levelling corruption accusations against ministers and members of the parliament (Financial Times, 2002).[2] In May 2001 Andrzej Lepper was sentenced to sixteen months in prison, which he is in the process of appealing (according to British Helsinki Human Rights Group).[3] A Polish politician called him "a criminal".[4]. In May 2006 Polish students protested against the coalition government and also mocked Lepper's recent criminal conviction for slander, chanting "Lepper to prison."[5]

[edit] Harassment scandal
In December 2006 a female party member claimed that Lepper and party deputy Stanisław £yżwiński had demanded sexual favours in exchange for a job in a regional party office. After the publication of these claims in the Gazeta Wyborcza [2], several other women came out with similar accusations.

Poland's chief prosecutor Janusz Kaczmarek later launched an investigation into the abuse allegations against both men.

[edit] Antisemitism scandal
The Interregional Academy of Personnel Management in Kiev, a private institution which actively promotes anti-Semitism[3], awarded Andrzej Lepper with two honorary doctorates[4] and a honorary professorship. The Anti-Defamation League strongly condemned "Prof. Dr." Andrzej Lepper for accepting these titles

Above are some brief exerps from wikipedia (granted not an infalible source, but good enough for this thread). But the give you the general idea.

To give you a UK equivelent, it would be like the UK being governed by a coalition of the Conservatives, UKIP and the BNP.

Sorry Giles, but this is "documented" by obviosly biased people, somebody could as well "document" that left fing people are stalinistic criminals, perverts, anti-capitalistic idiots, anti-Christians and anti-Polonists.

If you like It or not these people won democratic elections and If you don't stop insulting the Catholich church (+90% of people here is a member of) sooner or later you will find peoblems.


And WTF ? It's a fact :)

Greg, I'm not attacking you personally, I merely repeating statements I've sourced on the internet.
And regards the Catholic church, my missus and her family are all church going people, I express my thoughts on the Catholic church here and believe me I'm restrained, because with my Polski family I never mention the subject, its not worth it. My missus is happy being RC, good for her. Infact all my previous girlfriends have be RC (almost all0, my mothers born RC. I'm an atheist thats all. Also I studied theology from the age of 7 to 19, so I'm quite well versed in the subject. Its not that the RC is better or worse than any other religion. Its just that religion is to quote a famous man, the opiate for the masses.

Comments during official visit to the Republic of Ireland
On the 20 February 2007, while on a state visit to the Republic of Ireland, Kaczynski said that the human race ‘‘would disappear if homosexuality was freely promoted’’. Kaczynski also revealed, during a debate at the Forum on Europe in Dublin, that he opposed homosexuality being ‘‘treated as one of several choices’’. The comments generated scandal in Ireland amongst the media, general public and GLBT coomunity. Senator David Norris, a key figure in securing the decriminalisation of homosexuality in Ireland in 1993, said the remarks were ‘‘distempered, ignorant, unsophisticated attitudes". TD Joan Burton, a finance spokesperson with the Irish Labour Party, said the comments were ‘‘a pity’’ given people’s efforts to ‘‘eliminate gross and crass discrimination’’. (Homosexuality has never been a criminal offence in Poland; many notable figures in Poland were publicly known as homosexuals, therefore this group of people has never been perceived as oppressed minority by public opinion in Poland. The remarks of Kaczynski show his lack of ability to tactfully handle cultural differences rather then discrimination attempts.)

Racist? I never heard about Giertych being racist. I heard about him being homophobe and anti-Semite, but racist, no. Besides even if he was all this he is accused of, he still can't make anything against those groups as the press, polish society and Brussels would make his life really tough. I even remember reading an interview with him, where he was stressing his admiration for the Jewish nation and the country of Israel. :)

As for the Twins, and their alleged homophobia, I guess it really is a cultural difference. I like it that here in Poland we can still really discuss this topic without the fear of being cut out from the conversation by labeling me as homophobe.

PS: Just one more thing about the churches influence on polish people. For many years, the leading political party in polish parliament was the SLD, which always were and never hid their anti-religious sentiments. Even Kaczynski's predecessor, Aleksander Kwaśniewski, was a hard-line atheist and he was elected president of Poland TWICE! But nobody seems to remember it these days.